HELP - Factory Tour or HQ Experience?

[Haggy]

Before I was taken on my tours I had to sign an NDA so not much I can tell you except it was wonderful.

You can't give away any secrets, but can give a general description such as "I saw the paint shop but not where they build motors" etc. It's possible to pick up information that isn't public knowledge and those are the types of things that you can't give away. I had the same thing when I toured the Tesla factory, before autopilot had been announced but after cars with capable hardware had been seen in public. People wanted to know whether it was on all cars, which became self evident shortly after that, but all I could say was what I didn't see. If there's anything truly sensitive, they aren't likely to show it to anybody even with an NDA, but it's reasonable not to disclose anything that hasn't been made public.

 

[no gas]

Abuse. Referral programs are ripe for abuse, and have been abused since they’ve existed (buying AdWords, etc). I know because… well, let’s just say that once upon a time I had roughly infinite AWS credit and while I have a lot of friends, I don’t have a >$1M credit number of friends lol.

That said, I’m not *at all* saying @thecodingart was abusing it - but that would be a reasonable reason to limit it.

And in case you’re thinking “but it sells cars!”… that’s true, but when the referral bonuses are things that can be resold (EVSE, etc), Lucid would be losing money on those if that happened.

I don't think a $1000 referral bonus really enough to swing somone to buy a Lucid over another car. It's just for publicity and the good feeling it gives Lucid owners. Not a dealmaker.

 

[Deathlyshiv]

Well, this was an interesting thing I just noticed — they throttled my referrals

View attachment 17373

Where are you seeing this message? I may be getting close to that limit as well. The terms say only 20 orders allowed per year which includes cancellations (people who ordered using your link but didn't go through with the purchase)

 

[Haggy]

I don't think a $1000 referral bonus really enough to swing somone to buy a Lucid over another car. It's just for publicity and the good feeling it gives Lucid owners. Not a dealmaker.

It's not a question of that but it give me incentive to have an "I like my Lucid" talk with my friend or neighbor, who may want to buy the car after taking a ride in mine. Considering how many people have said "What's a Lucid?" or "I've never heard if it," I can see the justification. I don't generally make a point of telling other people that I got a new car or what kind I got, but I can see this encouraging people to do that when talking to somebody who might be looking to get a new car soon.

 

[thecodingart]

Well, it was interesting to learn that point redemptions have a point “tax” on them…

 

[xponents]

Well, it was interesting to learn that point redemptions have a point “tax” on them…

WTF are they taxing for??

 

[Haggy]

Well, it was interesting to learn that point redemptions have a point “tax” on them…

It's also interesting to know that there's federal income tax on top of that, if the referral value is above a certain amount. I got merchandise from Tesla for referrals, and declined one because it would have resulted in a 1099 for several thousand dollars (anything over $600) for wheels that I wouldn't have bought anyway.

 

[Haggy]

WTF are they taxing for??

That part isn't clear. It seems like a sales tax. The rules for sales tax should be state specific. In California, I'm pretty sure that you pay sales tax on the full value of an item even if there's a rebate, instant or otherwise, but pay sales tax on the discounted price if it's sold at a lower price. So I didn't have to pay sales tax on referral items from Tesla but I have no idea what people in other states had to pay.

 

[joec]

It's considered income. So it's taxable. Lucid is just following the rules here.

 

[Bobby]

That part isn't clear. It seems like a sales tax. The rules for sales tax should be state specific. In California, I'm pretty sure that you pay sales tax on the full value of an item even if there's a rebate, instant or otherwise, but pay sales tax on the discounted price if it's sold at a lower price. So I didn't have to pay sales tax on referral items from Tesla but I have no idea what people in other states had to pay.

The best answer is: ask your accountant.

 

[thecodingart]

It's considered income. So it's taxable. Lucid is just following the rules here.

It’s interesting to me the tax is points tax — sort of funny in a way?

I’d much rather it be this way than costing me money

 

[joec]

It’s interesting to me the tax is points tax — sort of funny in a way?

I’d much rather it be this way than costing me money

Yes. I suppose they could let you pay the tax in cash. But I agree. I’d rather use more points.

 

[Haggy]

It’s interesting to me the tax is points tax — sort of funny in a way?

I’d much rather it be this way than costing me money

That is kind of strange because the points you are paying with are a gift. But if they are using the value of the points and sending it to the government, it's legitimate if it's required.

 

[borski]

I don't think a $1000 referral bonus really enough to swing somone to buy a Lucid over another car. It's just for publicity and the good feeling it gives Lucid owners. Not a dealmaker.

That's not the kind of abuse I mean. I mean people buying ads with their referral codes, etc., then selling merchandise with the points they get for real cash, etc. These things happen all the time (I've done it, for things, when I was younger, lol).

WTF are they taxing for??

The item you're receiving, which counts as personal income according to the IRS (you'll get a 1099 if above a certain amount in value), and the company has to charge (and pay) sales tax on the item no matter how they receive the payment - cash or points. Them's the laws.

It’s interesting to me the tax is points tax — sort of funny in a way?

I’d much rather it be this way than costing me money

It's interesting you say that, because I would much rather have it the other way around, or at least as an option. Imagine finally getting the referral you needed, going to buy an experience, and then discovering you still need another to cover the taxes. I'd be so infuriated lol - just let me pay the rest in cash!

But, anyway, it's still a work in progress - this is basically the first iteration. I guarantee you it will evolve over time as it gets use.

 

[borski]

That is kind of strange because the points you are paying with are a gift. But if they are using the value of the points and sending it to the government, it's legitimate if it's required.

From the IRS' perspective, if the company gives you a thing they have to receive some sort of income from that, and must take that into account when dealing with taxes, etc. If a company gifts you something, then they can write that off as an expense. But because they are giving you a currency (fake or not) that you can use to then purchase real things, you must get taxed for the income and they must charge (and pay) tax for the purchase.

As another fun example, my buddy Jordan hacked United Airlines' systems as part of when they announced their bug bounty program - found a few great bugs that got him a few million United points. Yay!!! Then... he got a 1099, lol, and basically begged United to take their miles back, and they wouldn't. Then we all strategized for a while as to how to make enough from buying products with the points and reselling them to pay for the taxes. Long story short: he ended up paying the taxes for it, and still hates flying United.

 

[xponents]

That's not the kind of abuse I mean. I mean people buying ads with their referral codes, etc., then selling merchandise with the points they get for real cash, etc. These things happen all the time (I've done it, for things, when I was younger, lol).


The item you're receiving, which counts as personal income according to the IRS (you'll get a 1099 if above a certain amount in value), and the company has to charge (and pay) sales tax on the item no matter how they receive the payment - cash or points. Them's the laws.


It's interesting you say that, because I would much rather have it the other way around, or at least as an option. Imagine finally getting the referral you needed, going to buy an experience, and then discovering you still need another to cover the taxes. I'd be so infuriated lol - just let me pay the rest in cash!

But, anyway, it's still a work in progress - this is basically the first iteration. I guarantee you it will evolve over time as it gets use.

Believe me, I know(i had to file a 1099 for my shoe selling business, possibly one of the most frustrating events of my life), but its still shocking theres a tax on points that arent a worldwide recognized currency!

 

[Bobby]

Believe me, I know(i had to file a 1099 for my shoe selling business, possibly one of the most frustrating events of my life), but its still shocking theres a tax on points that arent a worldwide recognized currency!

Taxes are often times figured on relative value. A car isn’t currency but you get taxed on that. Same with a house.

 

[EVCar]

From the IRS' perspective, if the company gives you a thing they have to receive some sort of income from that, and must take that into account when dealing with taxes, etc. If a company gifts you something, then they can write that off as an expense. But because they are giving you a currency (fake or not) that you can use to then purchase real things, you must get taxed for the income and they must charge (and pay) tax for the purchase.

At my work place, we can use company's fund to buy any gift for visiting professors, dignitaries, departing chairs, co-workers, or whoever, as long as the cash value is less than some ridiculous number like $35.
Not a whole lot one can do with this kind of restriction. Maybe an In-and-Out meal ticket.

 

[xponents]

Taxes are often times figured on relative value. A car isn’t currency but you get taxed on that. Same with a house.

But wouldn't those be different as they are assigned an actual value? For example, I don't believe points have a cash conversion value, meaning they theoretically have "no" value and are just worthless to anybody outside Lucid. Or maybe they just base it off of the merch you can buy with referral points and also crucially have a cash value?

 

[borski]

At my work place, we can use company's fund to buy any gift for visiting professors, dignitaries, departing chairs, co-workers, or whoever, as long as the cash value is less than some ridiculous number like $35.
Not a whole lot one can do with this kind of restriction. Maybe an In-and-Out meal ticket.

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