What's new
By:

Heat Pump

ac.bill said:
Yes, in ideal conditions. In low ambient conditions they can be much less efficient than simply burning watts over a resistor. My understanding of the Tesla system is that in low ambient conditions they simply run excess current through the front motor stator to heat the coolant used to evaporate refrigerant for the heat pump. If this is true it would be incredibly wasteful. A simple immersion heater would bleed far less heat to the environment, but reliable-ish sources say they simply use the stator.
Click to expand...

Test show it is more efficient. It is not wasteful.
 
AlignTrex said:
Test show it is more efficient. It is not wasteful.
Click to expand...
I won't get into a dragged out discussion. The question was why Lucid wasn't using a heat pump today and I answered. Heat pumps can be very efficient, but they can also be inefficient and a maintenance nightmare. It is wise for Lucid to ensure that they can deliver a reliable and effective system before offering it to the public.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...tem-following-consumer-complaints-2022-01-14/
 
ac.bill said:
I won't get into a dragged out discussion. The question was why Lucid wasn't using a heat pump today and I answered. Heat pumps can be very efficient, but they can also be inefficient and a maintenance nightmare. It is wise for Lucid to ensure that they can deliver a reliable and effective system before offering it to the public.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...tem-following-consumer-complaints-2022-01-14/
Click to expand...
Isn’t this the point of the forums? To debate, discuss, share, ask, etc? Or will this post be censored because it is not butt kissing Lucid? I guess we will find out.

I actually agree with some of your valid points. Over engineering something to sacrifice reliability is a bad idea.
 
Didn’t think wire harness could be over engineered to a point it becomes unreliable.

techcrunch.com

Lucid recalls all of its 2022 Air EVs due to wiring issues | TechCrunch

Despite already struggling to meet production targets, luxury EV maker Lucid has now issued a recall for the Air due to potential issues stemming from the car's wiring harness.
techcrunch.com techcrunch.com

Bottom line is to challenge and to ask questions will hopefully help improve a company‘s product. Lucid, like Tesla, will no doubt improve in v2. With a heat pump! :)
 
Last edited:
AlignTrex said:
Isn’t this the point of the forums? To debate, discuss, share, ask, etc? Or will this post be censored because it is not butt kissing Lucid? I guess we will find out.

I actually agree with some of your valid points. Over engineering something to sacrifice reliability is a bad idea.
Click to expand...
This isn't exactly on the specific topic, but I really take offense to any statements about mods censoring stuff that isn't butt kissing Lucid. It's a ludicrous statement given the amount of negative posts on this forum about hardware/software issues, bad design decisions, etc.

We even created a user feedback poll to give to Lucid to improve their product.

On the topic now. I agree with @ac.bill regarding the complexity of a heat pump. Imagine one more thing to go wrong amongst the things we are already seeing. Adding the heat pump to the Gravity makes more sense because it gives Lucid a longer runway to test it and also because the SUV needs to eek out every single watt of efficiency it can wherever it can.
 
Last edited:
hydbob said:
This isn't exactly on the specific topic, but I really take offense to any statements about mods censoring stuff that isn't butt kissing Lucid. It's a lucldicrous statement given the amount of negative posts on this forum about hardware/software issues, bad design decisions, etc.

We even created a user feedback poll to give to Lucid to improve their product.

On the topic now. I agree with @ac.bill regarding the complexity of a heat pump. Imagine one more thing to go wrong amongst the things we are already seeing. Adding the heat pump to the Gravity makes more sense because it gives Lucid a longer runway to test it and also because the SUV needs to eek out every single watt of efficiency it can wherever it can.
Click to expand...
Thank you for stepping in.
During Derek Jenkin's AMA on reddit I asked him for a contact to share some detailed engineering observations with. He said to just post them on the forums, we read 'em. Tonight was a good example of why I generally refrain from that.
 
I don’t fully appreciate the utility of heat pumps, but man, automatic doors on a Lucid Air…I wish they’d bring those back into their design.

I bag on our Tesla Model X all the time, far more than I should. But the all-automatic doors, I’ve really come to appreciate them. They’re more than just a really neat party trick, they’re actually very useful.
 
ac.bill said:
Thank you for stepping in.
During Derek Jenkin's AMA on reddit I asked him for a contact to share some detailed engineering observations with. He said to just post them on the forums, we read 'em. Tonight was a good example of why I generally refrain from that.
Click to expand...
Well, I actually read all the points in this thread and think it was a good discussion. I know that I wasn't privy to all the design discussions inside Lucid that led to their current product being delivered, but I do have to imagine that they thought this through and came to a decision based on more information and parameters than the thought contributors here had. I also have to imagine that future products may take a change in direction based on changes to the original parameters as well as looking at their design decisions in retrospective.
As long as contributors in this forum are sharing differences of opinion and experiences in a respectful manner, then I do think this forum can continue to provide valuable feedback to designers, service providers, communicators, and other groups within and outside of Lucid. If, on the other hand there's ranting and whining and overall hubris (occurring elsewhere in the forum on a regular basis, not this thread), then it provides little value except to the one venting steam.
Please don't devalue the role the moderators and forum take on; thanks for the good inputs.
 
Bus Driver said:
I don’t fully appreciate the utility of heat pumps, but man, automatic doors on a Lucid Air…I wish they’d bring those back into their design.

I bag on our Tesla Model X all the time, far more than I should. But the all-automatic doors, I’ve really come to appreciate them. They’re more than just a really neat party trick, they’re actually very useful.
Click to expand...
This is a shame, given how wide the doors open, especially. I’m sure they would have only been automatic on the GT and above to start, but that would have been yet another “luxury” selling point to make that trim more attractive. Massage seats weren’t enough to convince me. But massage seats plus automatic doors may have been harder to turn down.
 
borski said:
The air suspension was dropped intentionally; the damped coil suspension resulted in far better handling, so they went with that over the air suspension. That wasn't a supply or cost issue or anything.
Click to expand...

I agree that the damped coil suspension is the superior setup for the handling/compliance balance Lucid was seeking. (My Audi R8's used this setup to great ends, and our Lucid trounces our air-suspension Tesla Model S Plaid in both ride and handling.)

However, I'm less sure why Lucid initially planned for an air suspension and then dropped it. Rawlinson has been in the suspension game since his days at such storied suspension houses as Jaguar and Lotus, so he surely understood the puts and takes on each type of suspension at the outset of the Lucid design. And Lucid certainly was initially serious about using an air suspension, as one of their early job postings was for a Senior Engineer of Air Suspension. (I don't know if the position ever got filled.)

Soon after the air suspension was dropped a Lucid sales associate in the Miami Design Studio told me it was because Lucid was working with the same vendor as Rivian on the air suspension, and Lucid -- with its smaller scale -- was having difficulty getting enough attention from the vendor. So, instead of trying to find another vendor as Covid issues were taking hold, Lucid turned to a simpler in-house coil design. i know such a source can be iffy, but he had enough detail in the recounting to lend it plausibility.
 
joec said:
This is a shame, given how wide the doors open, especially. I’m sure they would have only been automatic on the GT and above to start, but that would have been yet another “luxury” selling point to make that trim more attractive. Massage seats weren’t enough to convince me. But massage seats plus automatic doors may have been harder to turn down.
Click to expand...
Not only would they have added complexity but weight as well. Four more motors and associated equipment and wiring.
 
As someone who has been driving Teslas for 7 years and most of it in the northeast, heat pump and efficient HVAC system is crucial. I now live in CA but still take many ski trips with an X that has a heat pump now. The difference between heat pump and non is HUGE. With my previous X I was stuck in a winter storm traffic jam and was running low on power because I didn't foresee being stuck as my commute was only about 8 miles. I had to turn off my heat, snow piled high on my hood because there was no engine to melt it. My wipers were frozen and bowed.

I use probably at least 50% less energy with a heat pump now. Look up Tesla's octovalve HVAC, it is super impressive on how efficient their heating and cooling system is. Aside from a Pure, I also have a R1S on order. But both not having heat pumps is a huge negative for me, especially on the R1S which is the car i'd likely take on ski trips.
 
cwang089 said:
As someone who has been driving Teslas for 7 years and most of it in the northeast, heat pump and efficient HVAC system is crucial. I now live in CA but still take many ski trips with an X that has a heat pump now. The difference between heat pump and non is HUGE. With my previous X I was stuck in a winter storm traffic jam and was running low on power because I didn't foresee being stuck as my commute was only about 8 miles. I had to turn off my heat, snow piled high on my hood because there was no engine to melt it. My wipers were frozen and bowed.

I use probably at least 50% less energy with a heat pump now. Look up Tesla's octovalve HVAC, it is super impressive on how efficient their heating and cooling system is. Aside from a Pure, I also have a R1S on order. But both not having heat pumps is a huge negative for me, especially on the R1S which is the car i'd likely take on ski trips.
Click to expand...
This subject has been debated to death. The bottom line is this: some electric vehicles have a heat pump. Some do not. Lucid engineers have decided that it is not necessary.
If you live in a climate where this is important, they should be taken into account when you make your purchasing decisions. I actually own two EV’s, one has a heat pump and one does not. Personally, I have not seen a difference, but then I live in a temperate climate. Prospective owners should do their due diligence and purchase whichever EV fits their lives best.
 
Looks like a heat pump is now part of the Sapphire powertrain. There's a slide from Lucid in the SavageGeese video. I wonder how long before it will be available in other models.

HeatPump.webp
 
hmp10 said:
I agree that the damped coil suspension is the superior setup for the handling/compliance balance Lucid was seeking. (My Audi R8's used this setup to great ends, and our Lucid trounces our air-suspension Tesla Model S Plaid in both ride and handling.)

However, I'm less sure why Lucid initially planned for an air suspension and then dropped it. Rawlinson has been in the suspension game since his days at such storied suspension houses as Jaguar and Lotus, so he surely understood the puts and takes on each type of suspension at the outset of the Lucid design. And Lucid certainly was initially serious about using an air suspension, as one of their early job postings was for a Senior Engineer of Air Suspension. (I don't know if the position ever got filled.)

Soon after the air suspension was dropped a Lucid sales associate in the Miami Design Studio told me it was because Lucid was working with the same vendor as Rivian on the air suspension, and Lucid -- with its smaller scale -- was having difficulty getting enough attention from the vendor. So, instead of trying to find another vendor as Covid issues were taking hold, Lucid turned to a simpler in-house coil design. i know such a source can be iffy, but he had enough detail in the recounting to lend it plausibility.
Click to expand...
Look at the just released Savage geese Saphire video, lucid engineer explains why they didn't go with air suspension. I'm happy they didn't- car ride is amazing!
 
A "new" coolant pump was mentioned.
Does anyone have additional info?
Is this new pump just for this super car and it trickles down to the Air models?
 
EVCar said:
A "new" coolant pump was mentioned.
Does anyone have additional info?
Is this new pump just for this super car and it trickles down to the Air models?
Click to expand...
Sapphire produces far more heat with its tri-motor design. Makes sense. I doubt we’ll see this in the other Air trims anytime soon. Maybe in a few years. Hard to say when Lucid will update any of its cars.

The thing to watch is Gravity in a few months. Will that get a heat pump? That might be a sign.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Range w/heater?
Replies
15
Views
374
momo3605
momo3605
jedwin
Early production 2025 Air Pures without DDPremium standard -- and some with no heat pumps?
Replies
2
Views
1K
bikeriderbryan
bikeriderbryan
R
Heat pump models vs resistance heaters models
Replies
3
Views
2K
jbawden
jbawden
S
2024 GT or 2022 GTP
Replies
11
Views
3K
MGRMLN
MGRMLN
R
2024 Lucid Air Touring heat pump
Replies
7
Views
6K
joec
joec
Back
Top