Gravity Tire Replacement Comparison

[037]

I mean it's $400-$1300 over 20-30k miles depending on what you are doing on a $120k vehicle...

In my experience, there are plenty of good tires at less than $500 a piece, if you are paying $300-$500 extra per tire that’s a $1300-$2000 difference on a tire change. If they last 10k it would be painful.

For example, a set of Michelin All Season 4 lasted 20k for me, for others maybe it lasts 40k. We don’t all drive the same and the roads differ etc

 

[illopp00]

I think comparing Hankooks to Michelin traction in the wet/snow would require Hankook to be way improved and Michelin to be made way worse, otherwise they should not be even similar. Efficiency and wet traction are just in opposite corners.

Obviously need hard data which Lucid will not be providing, as everything might be just fine with a very calm and measured driver who stays the speed limit and brakes gently.

Remember Lickfold mentioning the whole package including Suspension and Control. Lucid has the BEST traction control in the business. You can do some 'magic' to mitigate around tire capabilities somewhat.

 

[hmp10]

Remember Lickfold mentioning the whole package including Suspension and Control. Lucid has the BEST traction control in the business. You can do some 'magic' to mitigate around tire capabilities somewhat.

And I assume this means changing software settings when switching between wheel options. However, putting different brand tires on the OEM wheels might throw such finely-tuned programming off for a given wheel. I wonder if that could actually exacerbate handling problems rather than mitigate them?

The more discussion I've seen on this forum, the more convinced I am that it's much better to stay with the tires Lucid specs for the car on each OEM wheel option. With a vehicle of the power and weight of the Gravity, trying to go "off label" might be playing with fire a bit.

 

[Elfin]

And I assume this means changing software settings when switching between wheel options. However, putting different brand tires on the OEM wheels might throw such finely-tuned programming off for a given wheel. I wonder if that could actually exacerbate handling problems rather than mitigate them?

The more discussion I've seen on this forum, the more convinced I am that it's much better to stay with the tires Lucid specs for the car on each OEM wheel option. With a vehicle of the power and weight of the Gravity, trying to go "off label" might be playing with fire a bit.

My feeling is that this is all ridiculous. I bet road surface changes traction characteristics way more than different tires in the same class.

 

[boydracing]

These are all valid points to consider. Physics though it just that - hard and fast (hydro-planing is no joke). The tire you get will affect your efficiency and traction (good or bad). Hankook (20"/21") will give best efficiency but there are trade-offs. The Pirelli's (22"/23") will give max performance with some trade-offs for efficiency and potential damage on poorly maintained roads. The Michelin's (21"22") is the middle of the road for those that cannot decide. Since I like Michelin's the best and really need snow and rain capable, I went with the Michelin's. I will lose some range but consider tires are only going to last so long and can pivot to something else later. At least this is my rationale to share/consider.

 

[hmp10]

My feeling is that this is all ridiculous. I bet road surface changes traction characteristics way more than different tires in the same class.

It probably does, but the tuning algorithm probably controls the way the car responds to road surface changes. If those tires are not the ones for which the car's response was tuned, might that not affect the handling? If it really makes little difference, why is Lucid going to the trouble and expense of having a chassis team still working on tuning the car's behavior to different tires?

 

[Elfin]

It probably does, but the tuning algorithm probably controls the way the car responds to road surface changes. If those tires are not the ones for which the car's response was tuned, might that not affect the handling? If it really makes little difference, why is Lucid going to the trouble and expense of having a chassis team still working on tuning the car's behavior to different tires?

I want to see someone do a blind test with the different tunings and see if they can tell the difference.
I'd be curious how the spring rate and damper tuning would vary between tires differently than it would vary between drive modes. How many degrees of freedom do the dampers have?
If you want the same performance envelope (aka compromises) that Lucid wants then the OEM tires are probably the best.

 

[TahoeMichael]

It probably does, but the tuning algorithm probably controls the way the car responds to road surface changes. If those tires are not the ones for which the car's response was tuned, might that not affect the handling? If it really makes little difference, why is Lucid going to the trouble and expense of having a chassis team still working on tuning the car's behavior to different tires?

My assumption, possibly naively, is that they're trying to optimizing their chassis dynamics in a way that works well for all the OEM tire choices, and not doing three different software algorithms. As contact with the road is a safety-critical aspect of a vehicle, I'd also expect that they're working hard to not seriously degrade if someone puts after-market tires on the vehicle.

 

[Udon1122]

I want to see someone do a blind test with the different tunings and see if they can tell the difference.
I'd be curious how the spring rate and damper tuning would vary between tires differently than it would vary between drive modes. How many degrees of freedom do the dampers have?
If you want the same performance envelope (aka compromises) that Lucid wants then the OEM tires are probably the best.

Most manufacturers work with tire brands to have their version of an off-the-shelf tire. I’m sure there have to be some reasons for that.

Tirerack has conducted a series of blind tests over the years. The results of the braking, acceleration, and handling tests differ significantly depending on the tires.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Most manufacturers work with tire brands to have their version of an off-the-shelf tire. I’m sure there have to be some reasons for that.

Tirerack has conducted a series of blind tests over the years. The results of the braking, acceleration, and handling tests differ significantly depending on the tires.

Unfortunately, I'm assuming the Gravity is going to be low volume enough that there will not be any well done third-party testing of the Lucid specific tires.

 

[Elfin]

Most manufacturers work with tire brands to have their version of an off-the-shelf tire. I’m sure there have to be some reasons for that.

Tirerack has conducted a series of blind tests over the years. The results of the braking, acceleration, and handling tests differ significantly depending on the tires.

Obviously it's easy to tell the difference between the Hankook Ion and PZ5. I'm talking about setting the car for the PZ5 profile when you have Hankook Ion tires and being able to tell the difference.

 

[hmp10]

Obviously it's easy to tell the difference between the Hankook Ion and PZ5. I'm talking about setting the car for the PZ5 profile when you have Hankook Ion tires and being able to tell the difference.

I suspect Lickfold's team has that data or similar. If it doesn't make a significant difference, then they would seem to be wasting a lot of time and resources by continuing to work on tuning the car to specific tires.

That's not really the impression I have gotten about the way they work, though.

 

[Elfin]

I suspect Lickfold's team has that data or similar. If it doesn't make a significant difference, then they would seem to be wasting a lot of time and resources by continuing to work on tuning the car to specific tires.

That's not really the impression I have gotten about the way they work, though.

I don't think they're actually making a specific tune for each tire, they're just tuning the car while testing all three tire options. Lickfold's statement is ambiguous. Anyway we'll know soon enough once people start driving them and playing with the configurations.

 

[hmp10]

I don't think they're actually making a specific tune for each tire, they're just tuning the car while testing all three tire options. Lickfold's statement is ambiguous. Anyway we'll know soon enough once people start driving them and playing with the configurations.

It was interesting that Lickfold mentioned only the Hankooks and the Michelins specifically and compared their performance briefly. Other than a general reference to testing all three tires, he said nothing about the Pirellis.

Erich Bach had said in an interview that on his personal Gravity, he was going to run the Pirellis for daily and performance driving but mount the Hankook combo for road trips.

I wonder if Lucid would be satisfied with a chassis tuning that strove for a compromise between the characteristics of such widely differing tires?

There are the differences in tread compound, tread design, siping, and water channels. But there are also significant differences in tread width and in how square-shouldered the Pirelli is, something that can really affect tire response to the crown angle of the road.

 

[TahoeMichael]

It was interesting that Lickfold mentioned only the Hankooks and the Michelins specifically and compared their performance briefly. Other than a general reference to testing all three tires, he said nothing about the Pirellis.

Erich Bach had said in an interview that on his personal Gravity, he was going to run the Pirellis for daily and performance driving but mount the Hankook combo for road trips.

I wonder if Lucid would be satisfied with a chassis tuning that strove for a compromise between the characteristics of such widely differing tires?

There are the differences in tread compound, tread design, siping, and water channels. But there are also significant differences in tread width and in how square-shouldered the Pirelli is, something that can really affect tire response to the crown angle of the road.

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I was specifically asking him about driving in the snow. Obviously that would be a bad idea with the Pirelli tires, so that's why he was only talking about the Hankook and Michelin tires.