Gravity 75 mph Range

[JeffSter]

Because it’s supposedly the best handling SUV on the planet? You can’t have best handling and most efficient and most off-road capable without making a compromise on tires

I bought my DE with the Aero wheels. We tend to stop whenever we need a break without much regard to range... Charged at 35% splash and dash...across the southwest for 100 miles each way. Used the Electrify America Chargers as they are the best performing in terms of power output. Only had to ask one other customer to move when he was not charging... walking about on his phone and told me to just use the 150 kW. I lied and told him my Gravity required the 350 he had parked in front of and he huffed off and moved his car thankfully. I would have waited had he actually been using it...but thankfully he did the right thing. I only used the Tesla network when the others were unavailable. only twice on this trip. Having road tripped in 2 different old Model X's that I had before this... I certainly spend less time each day at chargers than i used to. Can't wait until the newer Tesla chargers and the 800v 400kW monsters start showing up everywhere. Really enjoying the new Gravity.

 

[Knucklehead]

The EQS I have no idea, but the Rivian definitely doesn’t. The Escalade has twice the battery, so have fun charging it, but yes, technically more range.

View attachment 33808
Seems roughly the same as Gravity.

That 341mi result was at 95 percent charge (who tests like that???) They also say the "average speed" was 70mph which is always going to be less efficient than actually going 70mph.
In their most recent test Out of Spec got 376mi to dead. I'm just going by current available test results, on paper the Gravity should have more range at 70mph.

The data @borski posted matches my real experience. I frequently hit 2.4 mi/kWh at speeds in excess of 70 mph. With a battery capacity of 141 kWh, that is 340 miles of highway range. I have done better when weather was more cooperative.

What tires did you have on the R1S? I have the same model and get closer to 2.0 mi/kWh going similar speeds unless I put it in conserve mode.

My 2025 Tri Max R1T has the 22 inch rims with all season road tires. And driving like @BS8899 in Conserve I can easily match his efficiency. I think it would be even better with the Range wheels.

This is why I am disappointed in what Lucid has done. I also believe they have the most efficient drive train in the industry, and best in class aerodynamics, yet still 75 mph range takes a 20% hit. I am holding out hope that it is better than we realize at this point in time.

 

[hwy17er]

I do on road trips. By far the biggest reason batteries degrade is calendar aging. Minimize the amount of time the battery spends above 55% and it will last a long time.

So wait... what I've gathered from reading about EV batteries is that changing past 80% on the regular is kind of a time waste as the charging curve drops and it takes longer to charge from 80%->90% than does to go from say 20%->80% but occasionally charging to 100% for a road trip isn't real going to degrade the battery significantly
BUT... running your battery down below 10% a lot is what WILL degrade it more. AND...slower charging at home instead of fast charging all the time results in less degradation as well. Do I have this all wrong??
You're saying to not keep the battery sitting around charged above 55% to increase its longevity. Good to know.

If I leased and was going to hand that battery back to Lucid in 3yrs I obviously wouldn't care but if I purchase and want to keep the car a long time don't these strategies make the battery last more??

 

[hwy17er]

• To all my CA friends, you folks have no idea what range-anxiety is. There are so many chargers along CA highways you will never get stuck! All you are moaning about is whether you can get to Tahoe from the Bay Area in one charge!

Fair point, ...although not sure I'd call it "moaning". With serious elevation gain and cold winter weather not too many EVs can make it to Tahoe from the Bay area (and especially from Santa Cruz!) on a single charge, thus so much interest in Gravity and actual range & winter tire options, etc.

 

[TahoeMichael]

So wait... what I've gathered from reading about EV batteries is that changing past 80% on the regular is kind of a time waste as the charging curve drops and it takes longer to charge from 80%->90% than does to go from say 20%->80% but occasionally charging to 100% for a road trip isn't real going to degrade the battery significantly
BUT... running your battery down below 10% a lot is what WILL degrade it more. AND...slower charging at home instead of fast charging all the time results in less degradation as well. Do I have this all wrong??
You're saying to not keep the battery sitting around charged above 55% to increase its longevity. Good to know.

If I leased and was going to hand that battery back to Lucid in 3yrs I obviously wouldn't care but if I purchase and want to keep the car a long time don't these strategies make the battery last more??

I think it's far from clear how much of a effect "babying" your battery has, or even what to do if you want to baby it. For example, Lucid recently surprised people by disclosing their customer data shows occasional high speed charging helps with battery health, and that's definitely in conflict with conventional wisdom on the subject. But the good news is that long term battery data is increasingly showing that battery degradation isn't nearly the problem people expected it to be a decade ago. My personal conclusion is that one shouldn't overly worry about it. Just charge and drive the vehicle however you need in order to do the driving you need/want to do.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

So wait... what I've gathered from reading about EV batteries is that changing past 80% on the regular is kind of a time waste as the charging curve drops and it takes longer to charge from 80%->90% than does to go from say 20%->80% but occasionally charging to 100% for a road trip isn't real going to degrade the battery significantly
BUT... running your battery down below 10% a lot is what WILL degrade it more. AND...slower charging at home instead of fast charging all the time results in less degradation as well. Do I have this all wrong??
You're saying to not keep the battery sitting around charged above 55% to increase its longevity. Good to know.

If I leased and was going to hand that battery back to Lucid in 3yrs I obviously wouldn't care but if I purchase and want to keep the car a long time don't these strategies make the battery last more??

Don’t worry about it. They spend a significant amount of time and money to use software to stop you from messing up the battery. Unless you’re DC charging daily or running it below 10% daily, you’re highly unlikely to experience degradation beyond what a super cautious person experiences.

 

[BS8899]

Fair point, ...although not sure I'd call it "moaning". With serious elevation gain and cold winter weather not too many EVs can make it to Tahoe from the Bay area (and especially from Santa Cruz!) on a single charge, thus so much interest in Gravity and actual range & winter tire options, etc.

Yeah, I think Tahoe is a potential challenge for the Gravity on winter trips with a fully loaded SUV, gears, cold temperature, and 6,000ft elevation. If you start from the South Bay (say San Jose), I think it will be a challenge to get to Tahoe in your Gravity on one charge in the winter. Coming home would be a breeze.

My next door neighbor in Sausalito has a very athletic family. They own a place in Tahoe. The whole family goes 2-3X/month from Sausalito to Tahoe. He drives a big Ford truck with all kinds of gears/kayaks strapped to the truck roof. He and I were talking about EVs a while back. He likes my EVs but don't see himself buying one because he doesn't think he can make it to Tahoe in one charge.

 

[hank-iv]

Play with any variables you want, and every range/speed chart ends up looking pretty much like this one:

View attachment 33802

At higher speeds, aerodynamic drag tops every other factor in terms of reducing range. And it's a range killer any way you cut it on a road trip.

The same thing happens with ICE vehicles. You just don't care as much because there is a gas station at almost every exit.

Could be relabelled as Urine Flow(ml/min) vs Age (yrs)

 

[Knucklehead]

So wait... what I've gathered from reading about EV batteries is that changing past 80% on the regular is kind of a time waste as the charging curve drops and it takes longer to charge from 80%->90% than does to go from say 20%->80% but occasionally charging to 100% for a road trip isn't real going to degrade the battery significantly
BUT... running your battery down below 10% a lot is what WILL degrade it more. AND...slower charging at home instead of fast charging all the time results in less degradation as well. Do I have this all wrong??
You're saying to not keep the battery sitting around charged above 55% to increase its longevity. Good to know.

If I leased and was going to hand that battery back to Lucid in 3yrs I obviously wouldn't care but if I purchase and want to keep the car a long time don't these strategies make the battery last more??

Worry about it. (LOL just teasing @Ron_Burgundy.)

In my experience the following is true:
1. Battery health matters if you care about range.
2. Battery health is primarily dependent on battery age.
3. While age is the primary factor, the way the battery is treated definitely impacts battery health.
4. The battery is least stressed at 50-60% state of charge (SoC).
5. Fast charging is reported to be stressful on the battery but real world data indicates that stress is overblown.
6. If you charge to 100%, don't leave it there. Drive right away and get the battery down to below 80% as soon as possible. Really only charge to 100% right before a drive that requires all the battery.
7. If you arrive at less that 10%, recharge the battery as soon as possible. The longer it sits, the harder it is on the battery.
8. Every WOT (wide open throttle) event is very stressful on the battery. If you do that often, expect your battery capacity to decrease faster than others who baby the battery. (On the other hand, why get a quick car if you don't enjoy it?)
9. Don't worry about it.

 

[hmp10]

5. Fast charging is reported to be stressful on the battery but real world data indicates that stress is overblown.

According to Emil Dlala, Lucid SVP of Powertrain, fleet data from the Airs indicate that a mix of DCFC and Level 2 charging is actually good for the battery pack.

8. Every WOT (wide open throttle) event is very stressful on the battery. If you do that often, expect your battery capacity to decrease faster than others who baby the battery.

I've lost the cite, but on another thread here we discussed a recent engineering study that showed fast discharge under heavy load was actually good for EV batteries. Those of us with heavy feet reveled in the finding.

 

[hwy17er]

I think it's far from clear how much of a effect "babying" your battery has, or even what to do if you want to baby it. For example, Lucid recently surprised people by disclosing their customer data shows occasional high speed charging helps with battery health, and that's definitely in conflict with conventional wisdom on the subject. But the good news is that long term battery data is increasingly showing that battery degradation isn't nearly the problem people expected it to be a decade ago. My personal conclusion is that one shouldn't overly worry about it. Just charge and drive the vehicle however you need in order to do the driving you need/want to do.

Well that's seriously comforting coming from you. I would imagine "occasional fast charging" is good for the battery just as taking an occasional deep rapid breath is good for your lungs.
You mention "conventional wisdom"...do I take that to mean always using fast charging has been shown to cause more battery degradation versus mostly slow charging?
What about depleting the SoC all the way down to less than 5%?? Does anyone know of decent science on this or is it all opinion and conjecture on forums??

Where's all the left brained physicist/engineers on all this?

 

[hwy17er]

Yeah, I think Tahoe is a potential challenge for the Gravity on winter trips with a fully loaded SUV, gears, cold temperature, and 6,000ft elevation. If you start from the South Bay (say San Jose), I think it will be a challenge to get to Tahoe in your Gravity on one charge in the winter. Coming home would be a breeze.

My next door neighbor in Sausalito has a very athletic family. They own a place in Tahoe. The whole family goes 2-3X/month from Sausalito to Tahoe. He drives a big Ford truck with all kinds of gears/kayaks strapped to the truck roof. He and I were talking about EVs a while back. He likes my EVs but don't see himself buying one because he doesn't think he can make it to Tahoe in one charge.

Ya, I would definitely plan a stop to charge up in the foothills (Carson Spur is 8290ft above sea level, Carson Pass 8652', Echo Summit 7380'..going to Tahoe is the real deal in Jan or Feb) Fortunately there's Tesla SC's in Jackson, Placerville, and a couple in Truckee.
I'd also switch out the Hankooks for a snow rated tire.

 

[hwy17er]

According to Emil Dlala, Lucid SVP of Powertrain, fleet data from the Airs indicate that a mix of DCFC and Level 2 charging is actually good for the battery pack.




I've lost the cite, but on another thread here we discussed a recent engineering study that showed fast discharge under heavy load was actually good for EV batteries. Those of us with heavy feet reveled in the finding.

Ya, I s'pose I drive every car like it's a Ferrari...won't be any different with this 828hp beast! (..it'll just be weird with no stick shift)
But...knowing my driving style (similar to skiing: enjoy the curves and avoid idiots) it's probably best to have at least some battery preservation strategies
THANK YOU @Knucklehead !

 

[illopp00]

Elevation can be a significant contributor when you talk about 5,000ft (Ft Collins/OoS), and Tahoe (6,000ft). This kind of impact can explain a good part of the different between OoS and SoS tests. As another forum reader pointed out, OoS runs the battery completely dead whilst SoC runs it to zero. There might be another couple of percentage differences between the two.

One obvious (though exaggerated) proof-point RE: elevation is why airplanes cruise at 35,000ft-40,000ft. It saves fuel, and the weather is better!

An well designed EV for a given size will always be more Aerodynamically efficient than a comparable ICE vehicle because it has a flat floor and doesn't have extra intake vents, grates and driveshafts and transmissions hanging down under the car. I agree the engine itself gets more efficient with some load and the transmission parking it in the optimal RPM.

Worry about it. (LOL just teasing @Ron_Burgundy.)

In my experience the following is true:
1. Battery health matters if you care about range.
2. Battery health is primarily dependent on battery age.
3. While age is the primary factor, the way the battery is treated definitely impacts battery health.
4. The battery is least stressed at 50-60% state of charge (SoC).
5. Fast charging is reported to be stressful on the battery but real world data indicates that stress is overblown.
6. If you charge to 100%, don't leave it there. Drive right away and get the battery down to below 80% as soon as possible. Really only charge to 100% right before a drive that requires all the battery.
7. If you arrive at less that 10%, recharge the battery as soon as possible. The longer it sits, the harder it is on the battery.
8. Every WOT (wide open throttle) event is very stressful on the battery. If you do that often, expect your battery capacity to decrease faster than others who baby the battery. (On the other hand, why get a quick car if you don't enjoy it?)
9. Don't worry about it.

On top of this they have found the way they were testing batteries was actually worst than real world. In other words, in the lab they just discharge constantly and then recharge. Drive cycles with up and downs in loads and regen are very good for battery health, as long as you are not trying to use full power at extreme temperatures. They happiest between 50-90 degrees which the BMS will try to maintain all the time.

 

[Elfin]

So wait... what I've gathered from reading about EV batteries is that changing past 80% on the regular is kind of a time waste as the charging curve drops and it takes longer to charge from 80%->90% than does to go from say 20%->80% but occasionally charging to 100% for a road trip isn't real going to degrade the battery significantly
BUT... running your battery down below 10% a lot is what WILL degrade it more. AND...slower charging at home instead of fast charging all the time results in less degradation as well. Do I have this all wrong??
You're saying to not keep the battery sitting around charged above 55% to increase its longevity. Good to know.

If I leased and was going to hand that battery back to Lucid in 3yrs I obviously wouldn't care but if I purchase and want to keep the car a long time don't these strategies make the battery last more??

There's a guy on the Tesla forum that's always posting about this and he's convinced me that the thing that really matters is only charging to 55% for normal daily driving (note that Lucid themselves recommend 50% charge for "storage")

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/8851576/

From this chart we see that there is big increase increase in calendar aging at 55%:

From this chart we see that 35%-55% is the best place to cycle the battery:

Worrying about how to treat the battery on road trips is unnecessary, do whatever gets you to your destination the quickest.
The Panasonic cells that Tesla uses these days are degrading faster than the old ones, hopefully the Lucid ones are better.

 

[hwy17er]

There's a guy on the Tesla forum that's always posting about this and he's convinced me that the thing that really matters is only charging to 55% for normal daily driving (note that Lucid themselves recommend 50% charge for "storage")

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/8851576/

From this chart we see that there is big increase increase in calendar aging at 55%:
View attachment 33821
From this chart we see that 35%-55% is the best place to cycle the battery:
View attachment 33822
Worrying about how to treat the battery on road trips is unnecessary, do whatever gets you to your destination the quickest.
The Panasonic cells that Tesla uses these days are degrading faster than the old ones, hopefully the Lucid ones are better.

Thank you for sharing this data. It supports my point that running your battery down below 10% isn't the best way to make it last.
Also...Interesting the effect of temperature shown in the first graph

 

[NovemberLima]

One other interesting series of tests I found helpful was one that TeslaBjorn did on the Autobahn to determine the optimal speed for getting from point A to point B in the shortest time. The key takeaway (with one important caveat — assuming there are enough chargers, which is now true on most major highways in the U.S.) is that anything you do to improve efficiency — like slowing down, turning down the heat, etc. — may save energy and money, but it won’t get you there any faster. Driving as fast as conditions allow is still the quickest way to arrive, even if it means making more charging stops.





As others have mentioned, my wife and I love EV road tripping. We’ve driven coast to coast twice and logged hundreds of thousands of miles since our first Tesla in 2016. We actually prefer stopping every couple of hours to stretch our legs. With the longer range of our Rivian R1T and the Gravity, we sometimes make slightly shorter stops at rest areas (wish they all had chargers!) and fewer charging stops than in the early days. But we never feel like we’re waiting around for the car — and after a 12-hour travel day, we always feel better for having taken multiple short breaks.





I know it’s not news to most people here, but I’m still searching for the best way to help new EV drivers understand how differently you have to think. People always ask, “How long does it take to charge?” or “What’s the range?”





The truth is, those aren’t really the right questions. 99% of the time, I charge at home while I sleep — so from my perspective, it takes no time at all and range is irrelevant. With an ICE car, you always have to drive somewhere to fill up, probably at least 10 minutes each way, and another 10 to pump and pay.





On a road trip, you leave with 100%, but after that, you only charge enough to reach the next charger — maybe 150 miles away — which often takes just 10 minutes. It’s a completely different system, and it’s important to help new EV owners shift their mindset. While it’s technically true that it might take over an hour to charge from 0–100% at a Supercharger, I’ve literally never done that. So when people say, “Wait — you can only go 300 miles and then you have to charge for an hour? That’s terrible,” I have to laugh. It’s both true and completely wrong.

 

[Elfin]

Thank you for sharing this data. It supports my point that running your battery down below 10% isn't the best way to make it last.
Also...Interesting the effect of temperature shown in the first graph

True, but what's the point of conserving capacity if you never use it? If using the 5%-15% is 3 times worse than 45%-55% but you only use it on road trips it's not going to make much difference.

 

[9point81]

One other interesting series of tests I found helpful was one that TeslaBjorn did on the Autobahn to determine the optimal speed for getting from point A to point B in the shortest time. The key takeaway (with one important caveat — assuming there are enough chargers, which is now true on most major highways in the U.S.) is that anything you do to improve efficiency — like slowing down, turning down the heat, etc. — may save energy and money, but it won’t get you there any faster. Driving as fast as conditions allow is still the quickest way to arrive, even if it means making more charging stops.





As others have mentioned, my wife and I love EV road tripping. We’ve driven coast to coast twice and logged hundreds of thousands of miles since our first Tesla in 2016. We actually prefer stopping every couple of hours to stretch our legs. With the longer range of our Rivian R1T and the Gravity, we sometimes make slightly shorter stops at rest areas (wish they all had chargers!) and fewer charging stops than in the early days. But we never feel like we’re waiting around for the car — and after a 12-hour travel day, we always feel better for having taken multiple short breaks.





I know it’s not news to most people here, but I’m still searching for the best way to help new EV drivers understand how differently you have to think. People always ask, “How long does it take to charge?” or “What’s the range?”





The truth is, those aren’t really the right questions. 99% of the time, I charge at home while I sleep — so from my perspective, it takes no time at all and range is irrelevant. With an ICE car, you always have to drive somewhere to fill up, probably at least 10 minutes each way, and another 10 to pump and pay.





On a road trip, you leave with 100%, but after that, you only charge enough to reach the next charger — maybe 150 miles away — which often takes just 10 minutes. It’s a completely different system, and it’s important to help new EV owners shift their mindset. While it’s technically true that it might take over an hour to charge from 0–100% at a Supercharger, I’ve literally never done that. So when people say, “Wait — you can only go 300 miles and then you have to charge for an hour? That’s terrible,” I have to laugh. It’s both true and completely wrong.

I never thought to add time it takes to actual GO to the gas stations. I always tell folks it takes about 4 seconds for us to plug in at home and we just go to bed. It takes gas about 5-10 mins to pump. Add up all those 4 seconds thru most of the year and all those 5-10 mins for them and we are WAY WAY ahead on time. Then add in the 20 -30 min charging sessions for (2-4 trips for most people a year) road trips vs their 5-10 mins and the numbers over the course of a year get much closer to being even, but even then, most EV drivers are ahead. Now I'm going to add commute time to and from the gas station...

 

[Xminus6]

For context, it's not really a fixation or thrill seeking. In California for example, it's common to drive from the bay area to tahoe which ranges from 200-250 miles. Those routes are about 70% highway where the average speed is 75 and the common speed of most traffic is 80 for sure. Driving in the flow is to drive 80 mph, which I've always found safer than having everyone pass you. Now, the whole trip isn't 80 and once off the highway the trip is more at speed limit or 5 over. That said, the challenge with that trip is that you go from sea level up and over 2 7k altitude passes, and in the winter, it's cold.

Off of peak traffic times, it's a trip that takes 3 hours 15 minutes and it's nice to just get there and get settled in, versus stopping and turning it into a 4 hour + trip.

I did it a couple weekends ago. East Bay just West of Walnut Creek to Tahoe Donner. 177.1 miles. 76.2 kWh at 2.31mi/kWh. But I was going 75-80 when possible. Got there with close to 100 miles of range left from a 90% SOC at the start (I think). I didn't fully charge before I left is all I remember.