Future direction of the forum

[CLTGT]

Well, we have gone a couple days with a CarPlay rant.

Trying to open up another can of worms? I think we should just start a new thread.

 

[HC_79]

Well, we have gone a couple days with a CarPlay rant.

Ssshhhh....... don't poke the bear

 

[SDHacker]

Anything about the car and company is fair game for discussion. The problem is when people get emotional. Some act as if a feature Lucid hasn't introduced yet is a slap in their face and the world needs to be exposed to their indignation over it. And people just can't resist the urge to engage so it can't have the quick death it deserves.

When registering for the forum, is it possible to have a couple of the stickies presented before they can post to the forums? At least we can try to minimize the repeats from newbies over common things covered in the stickies.

 

[TRJ_Lucid45]

I have setup a new forum (Reservations / Cancellations / Feedback) located under the Lucid Motors section. We will move these type of topics to this forum. I have also set it up so threads are not shown in the sidebar latest posts. Hopefully this should help and we will continue to tweak as needed.

Feedback and suggestions are always welcome and we will continue to listen.

I thought I was the only one getting sick and tired of all the negative feedback. Constructive criticism is fine but it should be balance with what is good with the Lucid. No car is perfect and will not satisfy everyone. I like the idea of the new forum. It would be interesting to know how many of the naysayers are actually looking to buy a Lucid or they the kind that find fault in everything. If I hear one more statement that not have Apple Play is a deal breaker I am going to scream. To me, the Media features and Apps are incidentals and are not necessary for the safety features that are important.

 

[Bobby]

I thought I was the only one getting sick and tired of all the negative feedback. Constructive criticism is fine but it should be balance with what is good with the Lucid. No car is perfect and will not satisfy everyone. I like the idea of the new forum. It would be interesting to know how many of the naysayers are actually looking to buy a Lucid or they the kind that find fault in everything. If I hear one more statement that not have Apple Play is a deal breaker I am going to scream. To me, the Media features and Apps are incidentals and are not necessary for the safety features that are important.

I just don’t understand why people feel it necessary to write a long rant about why they didn’t buy Lucid. Like many of you, I cross shopped numerous cars before selecting the GT. I test drove the Mercedes EQS, the Model S Plaid, as well as several ICE cars in the same price range. One thing I didn’t do was go to the forums of those cars and post a rant as to why I chose not to buy them. I spoke with my wallet.

 

[borski]

I get the definite impression that the moderators here are only interested in people saying good things about Lucid and the Lucid cars. Negative comments of any substance are not tolerated. When people point out problems, for example, it is referred to as "whining" or "complaining", or is referred to as not being "constructive." I recently criticized Lucid's advertising and the moderators went so far as to lock out the topic. Users did backflips trying to spin the English language and even went so far as to voice the opinion that I am unfamiliar with America advertising if I expect advertising that is not false, deceptive, or misleading.

I fail to see how this benefits owners and potential owners. I am of the opinion that if Lucid is made aware of both the positive aspects and the negative aspects of its company, their cars, their advertising, etc., that benefits Lucid and the owners. In other words, discussing the positive and the negative are a good thing. Perhaps if Lucid sees that its owners are unhappy with certain aspects of their cars they will address these issues. On the other hand, if only the positive is discussed it causes this site, and the company, to lose credibility. It also says to Lucid "you are doing everything correctly" when in fact it is not.

I can deal with the negatives, delayed features, etc. But what I can't deal with is attempts to hide these negatives, delayed features, etc. And censoring negative comments diminishes credibility.

I’d love to see which thread you’re referring to, fwiw.

The goal isn’t solely positivity; as you can plainly tell, there is plenty of negative content, which this post was largely in response to.

The goal is *constructive* criticism, coupled with not making the same complaint a dozen times on a dozen threads.

A lot of the negativity posted isn’t constructive, and is just negative because people are upset. That’s fine to an extent, of course, but a mob of people yelling about various things that matter mostly to them as individuals doesn’t lead to conducive discussion; the goal is to moderate, not censor.

And we’re not perfect, by any means, either.

 

[hydbob]

I’d love to see which thread you’re referring to, fwiw.

The goal isn’t solely positivity; as you can plainly tell, there is plenty of negative content, which this post was largely in response to.

The goal is *constructive* criticism, coupled with not making the same complaint a dozen times on a dozen threads.

A lot of the negativity posted isn’t constructive, and is just negative because people are upset. That’s fine to an extent, of course, but a mob of people yelling about various things that matter mostly to them as individuals doesn’t lead to conducive discussion; the goal is to moderate, not censor.

And we’re not perfect, by any means, either.

I am, just ask Sam.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

How about folks just scroll on by a thread that you don't like or have no interest in? I do it multiple times a day.

 

[MorganB]

I appreciate the forum and have found it a very useful. I am not an owner yet but I have an order and intend to take delivery as soon as Lucid is able. The forum was instrumental in my decision to buy as it gave me both the positive and negatives of the car. I appreciate the time the owners have taken to share their thoughts , experiences and photos.

I have been on the forum since March and I have noticed an uptick in general negativity lately with people registering simply to complain. Maybe badges that show if we are an owner, firm order or just considering would be useful. It could be self moderated instead of proof of purchase as I can see how cumbersome that would be.

At any rate I appreciate this resource and wouldn't want to be excluded for the next weeks as I wait for delivery.

 

[C28]

There should be a category called 'feature clarification' on the forum. Sadly, that is where things are at with Lucid's communication. That would alleviate many of the post about cancelling & why etc (which are generally either 'late to deliver' or 'I have questions about XYZ feature and am tired of waiting for clear communication so canceled'

 

[Rogue]

This is a balancing act that we are trying to solve. Overall we want a good user experience here but sadly will not be possible to meet everyones needs.

So far we've implemented a new forum for those cancelling, negative experiences, etc and if you'd like to avoid those topics, then you can ignore that forum. But it is still available and not being censored as we don't want to censor information here. The good, the bad, and the ugly should be expressed.

I do agree that there is a lot of cross posting and redundant threads. We will look into trying to do better and welcome anyone who is interested in helping. If interested, send me a direct message.

We will continue to monitor this new implementation and tweak as needed. It is quick and easy to click Report on a post that is in the wrong section or you feel is inappropriate for the forum and the team can review it. Please remember there are 5 of us and anywhere from 300-500 posts posted per day currently on the forums so we may miss some stuff.

The company I am working for is developing a product to tag unstructured data (ie. thread posts in this case) to perform network analysis. I have no idea what your backend looks like for the site, but we could use a "playground" of data to pull from to test and pull examples to advertise to current and future customers. All of our existing customer data cannot be shared for one reason or another except with pseudo data.

Obviously, I'm just writing and thinking "aloud", but we could do something along the lines of trying to group threads and posts by common topics for the moderators. Maybe not the moving itself, but we could certainly flag things with different metadata. We could even attempt some sentiment analysis of member's posts as an experiment to pick out trolls with overwhelmingly negative reviews.

You could argue it's overkill. I see a possible net benefit for both parties. DM if you are interested. If you and the moderators have interest, I'll reach back out through work because it would be a great opportunity for us to test capabilities and limitations.

 

[Tesla2.0]

This forum used to consume most of my time as I have learned so much from this forum as my first EV. I enjoyed sharing my joy, frustration, helping answer Q/A to newbies to this forum. Needless to say, it’s very fun to drive this car minus tolerable UX; but with UX20, the aesthetic of cabin, and incredible range, this car really beats everything out there and will only get better. But lately, coming back here just see so many of trolls posting senseless FUD or trying to instigate hate for the brand. I suppose maybe Tesla was like that at early stage from ICE enthusiasts, and make you wonder the ulterior motives of posters such as “critique my writing”, “why I’m not buying”, “ruined my tax credit”, “where is CarPlay”, “Lucid lacks this and that...” I am just getting tired of reading the same repeated whining and frequent here less now, especially knowing posting too positive will be labeled fanboy, posting too negative will be quoted by cherry picking journalists.

Maybe having more labels than just “expert member” or “well-known member” would help indicate what is worth to read. Additional label such as “verified owner” would be nice. Sometimes I read a well-known member comment assumed it is valid, then later realized it was assumption as poster didn’t even have the car.

Anyway, great forum! Our family has Polestar in hand and a Rivian order. I don’t even bother the other 2 brands’ forum.

 

[borski]

How about folks just scroll on by a thread that you don't like or have no interest in? I do it multiple times a day.

Many times it spreads; misinformation or vitriol will start on one thread, and then either that same poster will move to other threads, or someone else will read it and repeat it either because humans like drama or because they are genuinely scared.

It’s not easy to moderate and balance the lines of “allow spirited discussion and debate” and “stop people from bullying others” and “stop people from complaining for the sake of complaining” (the last one being the equivalent of “let me talk to a manager” but it’s a forum and we don’t have those here )

 

[Jefferoo]

As a non-owner (looking forward to getting my Touring but not until 2023 unfortunately) I would be really sad to be excluded from the forum. Like MorganB, this forum has been instrumental in my decision to buy a Lucid. I have never owned an EV and this is the most expensive car I have ever purchased. I literally would not be moving forward without the knowledge and wisdom that I have gained over the months by following all the posts - the good and the bad.

I have also been discouraged by all the negativity. I understand why some people are frustrated by the lack of information from Lucid and I totally get why they are upset when they find out that some cool GT feature isn’t going to be available on the T/P models. I do wonder if some of this is temporary though. I suspect that the negativity will continue (increase?) over the next month as people realize that they aren’t getting their car by EOY, and it becomes clearer what is and isn’t included in each of the models. Eventually, people will not be surprised and upset since it will be common knowledge. A bunch of people will cancel their orders but, hopefully, more people will join in the fun. There will always be angry people who take out their frustrations here but it would be sad to see the Lucid Veterans move to another forum or quit when your thoughts and wisdom is so valuable to those of us just getting ready to jump in the drivers seat.

 

[EVCar]

FUD, trolling, emotional reactions, etc., they're part and parcel of the time we're in and it's difficult to avoid or eliminate them all.
Even with its warts et al, the forum is a great resource for a lot of us.
And I always tell myself not to forget the obvious that the forum is on the Admin's dime and all the moderators have their day jobs. Thank you for your time, efforts, and expenses.
So if you can make the forum better in some ways, great.
If not, it's perfectly acceptable as is for me.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Maybe having more labels than just “expert member” or “well-known member” would help indicate what is worth to read. Additional label such as:

" not an owner " "never drove it" "off my meds" "I don't have a sexual partner" "my other car is a diesel Jetta"

Tell Joe I will take on the responsibility of labeling the posters going forward. I have ideas.

Cosmo sees the future.

 

[Maverick]

While I agree with @Bobby and many of the rest of you, I think probably what bothers a lot of us, is that the forum is now so large. It used to be that I could go 24 hours and only have a couple pages of the What's New and be caught. I can't do that, and threads that are repetitive, annoying or just no longer of interest only reinforce that. In essence, there is just no way I can read of skim every thread any more. Consequently, I'm just not visiting more than a couple of times per week. I just don't have the time to look through and try to identify the topics that may be of interest to me. Rightly or wrongly, as the size of the forum increases, this problem will only get worse.

It's disappointing because of the community built, and the forum members I have really come to like and respect over the past year. But I'm afraid that now, I come mostly to check and see if a new update is imminent or if there's anything new in the AZ channel or if there is a problem or question I have. It's sad, but I think the reality of the growth. In fact, counterintuitively, I really hope the forum increases 10x because that likely means that a lot more people are getting Lucid (or more people have been recruited due to the absence of Carplay. Perhaps a telegram group or some other way to keep in touch a bit easier?

At any rate, I'll still be around, but just more sporadically.

 

[PDiddy]

Everyone on this forum was a non-owner for its first months of existence, as no cars had yet been delivered.

During that time I visited two Lucid Design Studios a total of three times, and on those visits I got some questions answered but also found new ones arising. I found this forum a very helpful place to see whether other potential buyers had gotten different answers (which was often the case), developed different questions, or had formed a different opinion from mine on a matter of interest and why.

I have also been a Rivian reservation holder for almost four years and used the Rivian forum the same way. I have now owned a Lucid for almost a year but will probably forgo delivery of the Rivian (if I ever actually get a contact regarding my Launch Edition order from February 2019). Both forums played key roles in these decisions to buy and not to buy. I was lucky to have two Lucid Design Studios within reasonable driving distance of my home. Unfortunately, no Rivian showrooms are within hundreds of miles of my home. Many potential buyers of Lucid will not have a Design Studio within convenient reach. They need to have access to this forum to aid in their decisions.

The Lucid Air is a phenomenal car -- the best of the many, many I have owned over the decades. But Lucid has been no more immune to the early delivery issues every other car manufacturer, whether new or long-established, encounters. And these unusual times of pandemic and prolonged supply chain disruptions have increased those issues. Whether Lucid's fault or not, there have been production and delivery issues with the car that would be enough to put some potential buyers off.

If they're grappling with such issues, I'd much rather they have access to a forum such as this to help with their decision making than have them rely on the internet and press where so many reports are full of hyperbole aimed at generating clicks and reads rather than conveying a balanced perspective.

Will some trolls make their way into our midst? Yes . . . welcome to the internet age.

Have to agree. Most people on this forum, myself included, either love this car or want to love it. My sense is that the trolls are a small in number and impact. Still, I like the idea of requiring verification of current or pending ownership. The forum's moderators are, in my view, really good people, and largely strong advocates for the marvel that the Air is. But I would not limit content to positive posts. For people like me, who are awaiting delivery, this forum is invaluable, both for reading about current owners' love of and the car and as an outlet for airing issues with it. I like to think that Lucid personnel read it as well, so that when they read of customers' concerns, they at least note them, and if they rise to critical mass, find ways to address them with some urgency. When people express concerns about the car--especially safety concerns--they usually do so out of an anxiety with noble root causes--they want to know that their families will be safe in them. I can live with the growing pains of benign software issues, and even with the inconvenience of losing the car to service for days, sometimes weeks, at a time. The safety stuff, not so much. One man's opinion: we see both sides of the coin. Channel posts, if you must. Positives to the right lane, negatives to the left. But let's not eliminate the forum for concerns. I do believe that the vast majority of people in this forum want to love the Air for the wonderful, almost magical, vehicle it can be, but areas for improvement remain, and if Lucid is to become the transcendent car company we all hope it will be, it needs to address the most anxiety-inducing concerns among them.

Many thanks to the capable moderators, such as Bobby, Borski, and others, for their adept management of the forum, and for their obvious admiration for the Air. I say, let's make a most promising car even better, by hosting the good comments with the bad, and using both to help guide Lucid to greatness.

 

[Bobby]

This forum will never suppress posts simply because they are calling out a problem or issue with the vehicle. That would be just plain wrong. What we as moderators are trying to do is figure out who the true trolls are and limit that type of content. For now, the moderators will be carefully looking at the first few posts of any new member to make sure that things are in keeping with this thinking. We have an active thread amongst ourselves and are very careful not to have a heavy hand.

We should all be careful, however, not to become a bunch of entitled babies because we have bought an expensive car. Posts that say “I paid $150,000 for this car and therefore…” do not contribute well to the overall tone of the forum. We all need to be objective. I think we can all agree that this is an amazing car, but like any other vehicle, especially one from a brand new manufacturer, there will be growing pains. We can all recall similar problems with vehicles in our past from new or established manufacturers. My ‘03 BMW M3 comes to mind. It was an absolute nightmare of reliability and I sold it after two years, 11 months of which it was in the shop.

We are all very lucky to own this wonderful vehicle. Many of us have worked hard to be in a position to purchase it. In our posts, let’s try to remember that there are thousands of real people at Lucid working very hard to try to please us.

 

[borski]

This forum will never suppress posts simply because they are calling out a problem or issue with the vehicle. That would be just plain wrong. What we as moderators are trying to do is figure out who the true trolls are and limit that type of content. For now, the moderators will be carefully looking at the first few posts of any new member to make sure that things are in keeping with this thinking. We have an active thread amongst ourselves and are very careful not to have a heavy hand.

We should all be careful, however, not to become a bunch of entitled babies because we have bought an expensive car. Posts that say “I paid $150,000 for this car and therefore…” do not contribute well to the overall tone of the forum. We all need to be objective. I think we can all agree that this is an amazing car, but like any other vehicle, especially one from a brand new manufacturer, there will be growing pains. We can all recall similar problems with vehicles in our past from new or established manufacturers. My ‘03 BMW M3 comes to mind. It was an absolute nightmare of reliability and I sold it after two years, 11 months of which it was in the shop.

We are all very lucky to own this wonderful vehicle. Many of us have worked hard to be in a position to purchase it. In our posts, let’s try to remember that there are thousands of real people at Lucid working very hard to try to please us.

Agreed on all counts. In an ideal world, I would also like to effectively ban all “But my $X Honda can do this and the Lucid can’t so Lucid sucks” posts as well. They serve very little purpose, as vehicles can and will be different, and these posts generally pay no mind to what the Lucid has or can do that the other named vehicle *can’t*. We’ve seen time and time again that you can cherry pick any feature of a Lucid or any other brand and say that another car does or doesn’t have it.

I would very much like it if we can avoid that kind of nonsensical comparison in the future.

We can compare vehicles, certainly, but let’s do so as a whole package, and not on the basis of any one singular feature, as that kind of comparison is disingenuous and can go in either direction, but quickly devolves into arguments about features that have different levels of important to different people.

No one car will please every person, and that’s okay! Every car will have some compromises, and how those affect each person’s desire and/or enjoyment of the car are going to be different.