For those who think there's tiny market for expensive & luxury EVs

[joec]

Lucid Begins Deliveries in Europe of Record 883km-Range Lucid Air - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! From my experience, the Lucid Air is the most luxurious electric car on the market. It is imbued with luxury and exudes it (though, more so on the inside than the outside). It is ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

I wonder if some of the cars we see in Bear video are meant for Europe.

Some very likely are. They are starting with Dreams, so it should be possible to spot the rims.

 

[Lucken]

Brooklyn Gray color. All season 19 inch wheels.

On my Mac I can see that it's Brooklyn Gray now on the 2nd pix.

 

[Demosthenes]

Criticisms of Lucid in order of importance:

1: complaining about the car before you have it.
2- no CarPlay (coming very soon, unlike the most popular EV maker in the world)
3- no mi/KWh in dash (available in Pilot panel, probably coming back soon)
4- no ability to make DD PRO warning only without intervention (my only big complaint with DD pro, I do hate this about the car)
5- Sirius XM BETA acts like a Beta version (why is this a complaint?)
6- Mediocre efficiency below freezing temps (see every other EV…although some are definitely better than Lucid in this category)
7- plug and charge not flawless on EA (see every other EV, but maybe the recent OTA has improved this some?)
8- Alexa isn’t very good (see Alexa on many other devices like my home FireCube that frustrated me so much I got rid of it for AppleTV, so now Siri frustrates me as much as Alexa…though maybe 2.0.47 OTA improved it?)
9- car rolls backwards in drive very rarely in specific circumstances (not anymore thanks to OTA)
10- very very rarely Car may die for as of yet no universal reason (this is serious but they’re working on it)
11- service in Florida is mostly bad (they’re working on it)
12- service in a few other locales may or may not be bad (majority of owner service experience almost everywhere else has been positive)
13- cup holder location and size is wrong (this is objective fact)
14- navigation is inadequate for some owners, fine for other owners (Me)
15- trim may have issues/some cars may have minor squeaks or rattles (mine had trim issues, car has zero squeaks/rattles)
16 - text service is slow to respond (the longest it ever took them to reply to me was 45 minutes and they apologized without me complaining)
17 - USB jack location is painful to access (objective fact)
18 - visor mirror covers folding mechanism is…creative/annoying?
19 - 21” tires look amazing….right before they explode when they run over a pebble (this should have been a recall in my opinion)
20 - people who mention the price of the car in many of their posts (money neither buys flawless engineering, software, manufacturing or service, but talking about money a lot is….?)
21 - Peter Rawlinson not commenting on every bears workshop video or having the beverages I like in the service center because I own the company.
….Ok I’m getting off track here, sorry.

That’s all this fanboy who takes personal offense to complaints about the car can think of.

After reading this post, I no longer have to read 90% of the rest of the forum

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

here is an example of not seeing the topic header as one contributes makes no difference at all.

I support the Oxford comma.

 

[AZLucidGuy]

I don't think comparing the Lucid to the Taycan is inappropriate. I will offer my thoughts since I actually wrote out a check for the Taycan 4S but wound up walking when the Dealer tried to jack me up for an additional $9k. I am/was a Porsche FanBoy (I've owned four). Anyway, I am thankful he did that since that led to my purchase of the Dream P. Here are my thoughts comparing the 4S with the Air GT which with similar options (leather interior, 21" wheels, upgraded stereo, massaging seats, etc.) are very close in price. Lucid GT is much faster and handling is very close; Lucid has much more interior room and storage (back seat of Taycan sedan is very low on headroom and who really wants a station wagon (Turismo)); external looks are a matter of choice but both look very nice in my opinion; GT has had software issues (steadily improving) Taycan software is lacking with little improvement thus far; Range isn't in the same ballpark; Lucid comfort for long drives definitely superior. There are many other comparisons I can make, but suffice it to say I am overall very pleased with my decision to pass on the Taycan and opt for the Lucid. To each his own.

I had an early deposit on the Taycan when it was still known as the "Mission E". I am also a Porsche fanboy having had three (still have one). But when the final car was released with abysmal range and efficiency in terms of mi/kWh as well as the cramped interior I cancelled my order and got my deposit back. Now I am much happier with my Lucid Air GT.

 

[nevadagame]

Nah, I've made multiple comparisons that IMO put the i4 in a favorable light compared to the Lucid for certain aspects. I've never been deleted once. Even though I might not always agree with the mods, I think they're more than fair.

BTW, I do have a Pure on reserve for almost 2 years and I'm just waiting for the call to firm up an order.

I agree with you, I probably guilty of get off discussion too much, it looks like your pure will be happening soon now, I’ll bet you’ll be driving by March, the “base pure” will be equivalent to most near luxury ev’s. It’s 100% as beautiful as the cars lucid makes that cost 2X. Congratulations, I hope it comes soon.

I had an early deposit on the Taycan when it was still known as the "Mission E". I am also a Porsche fanboy having had three (still have one). But when the final car was released with abysmal range and efficiency in terms of mi/kWh as well as the cramped interior I cancelled my order and got my deposit back. Now I am much happier with my Lucid Air GT.

I owned the Taycan turbo for 2.5 years just recently selling it to make room for the AGT, I nearly choked on the original epa rating of I think 212… I bought it anyway I drive high spirited, some fast runs and never granted the car, but consistently got 260 to 280 real world miles of range, with a little effort I could reach 300. So it wasn’t as bad as advertised, I also realize that the AGT with 19’s, which is what I’ll get advertises 519 but I will be very happy with anything over 400 and that’s what I expect it to be so the range is was of a factor for me. The front seat is definitely smaller and the backseat not roomy enough for some passengers. I found the Taycan software, surprisingly incomplete for a modern car and it’s price range, but what was there seem to work perfectly. For me, the fact is, they’re both really great cars for slightly different reasons. The Porsche is more likely to be reliable, but I am up for the adventure, hopefully I’ll feel the same way in a year.

 

[nevadagame]

I agree with you, I probably guilty of get off discussion too much, it looks like your pure will be happening soon now, I’ll bet you’ll be driving by March, the “base pure” will be equivalent to most near luxury ev’s. It’s 100% as beautiful as the cars lucid makes that cost 2X. Congratulations, I hope it comes soon.

I owned the Taycan turbo for 2.5 years just recently selling it to make room for the AGT, I nearly choked on the original epa rating of I think 212… I bought it anyway I drive high spirited, some fast runs and never granted the car, but consistently got 260 to 280 real world miles of range, with a little effort I could reach 300. So it wasn’t as bad as advertised, I also realize that the AGT with 19’s, which is what I’ll get advertises 519 but I will be very happy with anything over 400 and that’s what I expect it to be so the range is was of a factor for me. The front seat is definitely smaller and the backseat not roomy enough for some passengers. I found the Taycan software, surprisingly incomplete for a modern car and it’s price range, but what was there seem to work perfectly. For me, the fact is, they’re both really great cars for slightly different reasons. The Porsche is more likely to be reliable, but I am up for the adventure, hopefully I’ll feel the same way in a year.

By the way, on a somewhat personal note, I know most of us are experienced seasoned drivers with many great cars in our history. I now have finished just over 60 years of thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining driving experiences. I hope to continue many more adventures which is a factor for me in my decision to buy the lucid.

 

[Slam08]

Yeah. The taycan has decent range. Don’t believe the EPA numbers. Porsche was very conservative with the range it seems. Not like Lucid and Tesla

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

 

[Lucken]

I agree with you, I probably guilty of get off discussion too much, it looks like your pure will be happening soon now, I’ll bet you’ll be driving by March, the “base pure” will be equivalent to most near luxury ev’s. It’s 100% as beautiful as the cars lucid makes that cost 2X. Congratulations, I hope it comes soon.

I owned the Taycan turbo for 2.5 years just recently selling it to make room for the AGT, I nearly choked on the original epa rating of I think 212… I bought it anyway I drive high spirited, some fast runs and never granted the car, but consistently got 260 to 280 real world miles of range, with a little effort I could reach 300. So it wasn’t as bad as advertised, I also realize that the AGT with 19’s, which is what I’ll get advertises 519 but I will be very happy with anything over 400 and that’s what I expect it to be so the range is was of a factor for me. The front seat is definitely smaller and the backseat not roomy enough for some passengers. I found the Taycan software, surprisingly incomplete for a modern car and it’s price range, but what was there seem to work perfectly. For me, the fact is, they’re both really great cars for slightly different reasons. The Porsche is more likely to be reliable, but I am up for the adventure, hopefully I’ll feel the same way in a year.

You don’t want to make that bet! Realistically I’m guessing late summer to sometime during the fall. They would probably have had to notify me already, to firm up an order, for a March delivery to have any chance. They haven’t and I don’t believe they’re that close.

 

[digiboxer]

I see a fair number of Taycans around Chicago, great looking car.
When they were first coming out Porsche had a pop up shop in Santa Monica to highlight them (included heritage story board and a perfect condition 356 sitting on the floor), I sat in both the front and rear of the Taycan and the back seats were hard to get in and out of the lacked room in general. The front seats also were tough to get in and out of but once in there, it was an extremely nice place to be.
It is pretty plain that Lucid should have done an SUV to start.
The reality is, these folks have been too fixated on showing Musky that they can build a better mousetrap and started with the Model S as their prey.
It has been demonstrated multiple ways on this site that the high end sedan market is small, the Air is a proof of concept and yes, getting the next couple of volume models out will be the make or break part of Lucid's story.
In some ways I would prefer them to end up under the Lexus umbrella (they know how to build, market, service but are nowhere in full electrics).

Oh Boy, is this right on....

 

[digiboxer]

After reading this post, I no longer have to read 90% of the rest of the forum

I was thinking the same thing---I've printed it for easier future reference!

Obviously ranking these "glitches" by order of importance is a subjective thing (eg SXM registers Zero on a lot of meters here).

But ranking the total power failures at #10? For me it's #1, at least until there are objective data backing up the assertion that they
are "very very rare". (Not holding breath...)

 

[borski]

But ranking the total power failures at #10? For me it's #1

We’re well aware this is your #1 concern.

 

[digiboxer]

We’re well aware this is your #1 concern.

Thx!..Had no idea anyone was listening! No need for me to pile on...

PS. the discourse here is more helpful than ever for those of us trying to decide. More so than ever, for me it's become ANY EV? rather than Lucid vs another EV.

 

[borski]

More so than ever, for me it's become ANY EV? rather than Lucid vs another EV.

What do you mean?

 

[digiboxer]

What do you mean?

I'm an EV never-ever, so a lot of the problems owners have detailed here came as a complete shock to me ("of course no one gets EPA range"--"do you know how bad Tesla was...", etc) Well, no..I didn't know any of it, much less that I should not only expect it, but gladly pay 110K for it.

My first reaction was to blame Lucid management for 1) falsely advertising to me the capabilities of the car (apparently every EV Co does) and 2) selling a car with defects rarely found in ICE cars (apparently every EV CO does).

I didn't know enough about all this prior EV history to have expected Lucid to rise above the pack--but the reality seems to be (for now) none of them can.

One of the common defenses here is "you can't defy he laws of physics"...couldnt agree more. My impression is, no one has yet discovered how to get and store adequate power without lugging 2000 lbs of battery around. They will in time, and I have time.

Re the rest of it--like software---self-inflicted, and the market will judge.

 

[borski]

I'm an EV never-ever, so a lot of the problems owners have detailed here came as a complete shock to me ("of course no one gets EPA range"--"do you know how bad Tesla was...", etc) Well, no..I didn't know any of it, much less that I should not only expect it, but gladly pay 110K for it.

My first reaction was to blame Lucid management for 1) falsely advertising to me the capabilities of the car (apparently every EV Co does) and 2) selling a car with defects rarely found in ICE cars (apparently every EV CO does).

I didn't know enough about all this prior EV history to have expected Lucid to rise above the pack--but the reality seems to be (for now) none of them can.

One of the common defenses here is "you can't defy he laws of physics"...couldnt agree more. My impression is, no one has yet discovered how to get and store adequate power without lugging 2000 lbs of battery around. They will in time, and I have time.

Re the rest of it--like software---self-inflicted, and the market will judge.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[quantum]

Thanks for being direct

The OP pointed out the Porsche has had success in expensive electric sedans (I bumbled some points about in Chicago the Taycan has some take rate but it ain't a great family hauler).

The thread moved to some extent about what Lucid has to do with it's business, a lot of the points were focused on going down market (I am a sedan fan and have been enjoying my GT-P but big fancy sedans ain't going to make Lucid a big successful company). My points were more about what they do have to do (make SUVs) and that they started the company with a child-like mind set (FU Musky instead of we created a better platform and will sell more eSUVs than Coke sells to Florida.

Many folks here there and everywhere expect Lucid to fail (financially). While I don't want that to happen, if Lucid got low on cash and was gobbled up by Toyota, I would be ok with that (Yes, I believe Akio Toyoda knows more about running a company than Petey does).

ICE company taking over Lucid will destroy the car. Lucid has made a great vehicle - longest range, excellent handling, tremendous space. All those going around saying Lucid going bankrupt are just regurgitating Tesla fanboy nonsense.

You conveniently forget that PIF owns Lucid and they are building a factory in Saudi Arabia. Saudi makes about 200 billion a year in profit a year from oil sales. and this will continue for at least for the next 20-30 years.

Once the pure gets out, they will sell many more. SUV will sell x4 times the sedan. The company is only 1 year old and in a much better position than Tesla was. Many potential model S/ Taycan buyers will flock to Lucid. Gremlins will always be there for a new car company. I used to be an EV sceptic, I dropped the idea of buying a used Ferrari and bought a Lucid- superior in many ways!

 

[Lucken]

I'm an EV never-ever, so a lot of the problems owners have detailed here came as a complete shock to me ("of course no one gets EPA range"--"do you know how bad Tesla was...", etc) Well, no..I didn't know any of it, much less that I should not only expect it, but gladly pay 110K for it.

My first reaction was to blame Lucid management for 1) falsely advertising to me the capabilities of the car (apparently every EV Co does) and 2) selling a car with defects rarely found in ICE cars (apparently every EV CO does).

I didn't know enough about all this prior EV history to have expected Lucid to rise above the pack--but the reality seems to be (for now) none of them can.

One of the common defenses here is "you can't defy he laws of physics"...couldnt agree more. My impression is, no one has yet discovered how to get and store adequate power without lugging 2000 lbs of battery around. They will in time, and I have time.

Re the rest of it--like software---self-inflicted, and the market will judge.

If I’m interpreting this correctly, why waste your time on EV forums? I have concerns about Lucid too, especially with 7 months of zero issues with my i4, but this is my 4th EV, so I’m hardly an ’EV never-ever’ kind of guy.

I come here to learn from knowledgeable owners, which helps me to make an informed decision regarding my 2 year old Pure reservation. Although I agree with some of what you said, I‘m just questioning the tone of your post. Of course I could be totally off base.

 

[quantum]

If I’m interpreting this correctly, why waste your time on EV forums? I have concerns about Lucid too, especially with 7 months of zero issues with my i4, but this is my 4th EV, so I’m hardly an ’EV never-ever’ kind of guy.

I come here to learn from knowledgeable owners, which helps me to make an informed decision regarding my 2 year old Pure reservation. Although I agree with some of what you said, I‘m just questioning the tone of your post. Of course I could be totally off base.

I’m guessing he doesn’t know much about EV’s , an uninformed , never owned never EV’er. I was in the same boat until I bought and sold my Model S. Great performance, no gas, plug at home, no need for servicing and dealing with crappy dealerships. My Hyundai needs servicing- pain in the ass trying to get that done while working 5 days a a week.

Only reason I sold the model s was poor handling and very poor quality to the point where a body panel was coming off. And it was a 2018 model.

Lucid for me ticks ALL the boxes. And this is coming from a car enthusiast who once strongly considered buying a Ferrari!

 

[Jordan]

Criticisms of Lucid in order of importance:

1: complaining about the car before you have it.
2- no CarPlay (coming very soon, unlike the most popular EV maker in the world)
3- no mi/KWh in dash (available in Pilot panel, probably coming back soon)
4- no ability to make DD PRO warning only without intervention (my only big complaint with DD pro, I do hate this about the car)
5- Sirius XM BETA acts like a Beta version (why is this a complaint?)
6- Mediocre efficiency below freezing temps (see every other EV…although some are definitely better than Lucid in this category)
7- plug and charge not flawless on EA (see every other EV, but maybe the recent OTA has improved this some?)
8- Alexa isn’t very good (see Alexa on many other devices like my home FireCube that frustrated me so much I got rid of it for AppleTV, so now Siri frustrates me as much as Alexa…though maybe 2.0.47 OTA improved it?)
9- car rolls backwards in drive very rarely in specific circumstances (not anymore thanks to OTA)
10- very very rarely Car may die for as of yet no universal reason (this is serious but they’re working on it)
11- service in Florida is mostly bad (they’re working on it)
12- service in a few other locales may or may not be bad (majority of owner service experience almost everywhere else has been positive)
13- cup holder location and size is wrong (this is objective fact)
14- navigation is inadequate for some owners, fine for other owners (Me)
15- trim may have issues/some cars may have minor squeaks or rattles (mine had trim issues, car has zero squeaks/rattles)
16 - text service is slow to respond (the longest it ever took them to reply to me was 45 minutes and they apologized without me complaining)
17 - USB jack location is painful to access (objective fact)
18 - visor mirror covers folding mechanism is…creative/annoying?
19 - 21” tires look amazing….right before they explode when they run over a pebble (this should have been a recall in my opinion)
20 - people who mention the price of the car in many of their posts (money neither buys flawless engineering, software, manufacturing or service, but talking about money a lot is….?)
21 - Peter Rawlinson not commenting on every bears workshop video or having the beverages I like in the service center because I own the company.
….Ok I’m getting off track here, sorry.

That’s all this fanboy who takes personal offense to complaints about the car can think of.

Like the list - thought I was nuts about the cup holders. I will just point out that 20 years ago, most Mercedes lacked cupholders - no German engineer would think anyone would be so stupid as to drink coffee when they were driving.