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pam4_AGT

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Jan 3, 2022
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Bay Area, CA
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Lucid Air Grand Touring
Much better experiences on EVGo and ChargePoint but unfortunately most of their chargers are limited to 50Kw

Lucid will be my first EV.. hence this question. Are these two networks (EVGo and Chargepoint) in general better than EA? If I'm going on a road trip, I don't mind paying for the charging (forget the free EA charging), but are the EVGo and Chargepoint chargers in general more reliable than EA?
 

Paladin732

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Nov 21, 2021
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Taycan
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Lucid will be my first EV.. hence this question. Are these two networks (EVGo and Chargepoint) in general better than EA? If I'm going on a road trip, I don't mind paying for the charging (forget the free EA charging), but are the EVGo and Chargepoint chargers in general more reliable than EA?
EA is almost all DC fast charging (level 3).
Chargepoint is mostly all level 2. I’ve never once hit a chargepoint charger that did not work, I’ve been driving electric for 7+ years at this point.
 

manitou202

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Nov 2, 2021
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E-tron, Polestar 2
I use Chargepoint Level 3 and EA Level 3 chargers on most of my road trips. I've had very good luck with both, even though I know EA has had many problems in other areas.

The biggest drawback of ChargePoint level 3 chargers are they typically are limited to 62.5kW. So you are looking at roughly an hour to fill a Lucid Air by 50%. Most of the time I use Chargepoint, I'm in remote areas of Colorado where they are plentiful and I only need to top off my EV and add maybe 20%.

The best option for any charging network is to check out the locations you want to use on the PlugShare app. The have a rating based on successful charging sessions. You can also view comments from people who have charged their recently. It will help give you a sense if a certain location is reliable or not.
 

hellolucid

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Dec 20, 2021
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GT
I use Chargepoint Level 3 and EA Level 3 chargers on most of my road trips. I've had very good luck with both, even though I know EA has had many problems in other areas.

The biggest drawback of ChargePoint level 3 chargers are they typically are limited to 62.5kW. So you are looking at roughly an hour to fill a Lucid Air by 50%. Most of the time I use Chargepoint, I'm in remote areas of Colorado where they are plentiful and I only need to top off my EV and add maybe 20%.

The best option for any charging network is to check out the locations you want to use on the PlugShare app. The have a rating based on successful charging sessions. You can also view comments from people who have charged their recently. It will help give you a sense if a certain location is reliable or not.
what kind of plug Lucid takes? is it CCS/SAE or J-1772?
 

CraZ8

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Dec 23, 2021
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2018 velar 2002 bmw z8
I’ve only used a third party charger twice since the early days of owning my first model S. What is the status of Tesla opening up their chargers to non Teslas? Elon tweeted this was to happen soon ( I know I know insert Elon timeline joke here) however he usually does follow through eventually. Plus he has a big incentive with a chunk of government grants. The Tesla supercharger network is one of their biggest selling points as they are ubiquitous and reliable
 

Lucken

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Jan 31, 2021
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Long Island
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21 Audi e-Tron Sportback
I’ve only used a third party charger twice since the early days of owning my first model S. What is the status of Tesla opening up their chargers to non Teslas? Elon tweeted this was to happen soon ( I know I know insert Elon timeline joke here) however he usually does follow through eventually. Plus he has a big incentive with a chunk of government grants. The Tesla supercharger network is one of their biggest selling points as they are ubiquitous and reliable
In Europe his program has begun, but I’m not aware of any movement here in the U.S.
 

idiot900

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Jan 4, 2022
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Touring (reserved)
Thanks much
If you need to have wires run, IMHO it's worth getting 90A or 100A rated wiring to support the highest charge rate possible with the wall-mounted Lucid home charging station. Even if you don't need it now, you'll save the headache of re-fishing wire down the road. Whether with Lucid or your next EV after that.
 

HC_79

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Jan 4, 2022
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Santa Clarita, CA
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2022 Lucid Air GT
In Europe his program has begun, but I’m not aware of any movement here in the U.S.

I doubt they will ever open in the US. They're already overcrowded and Tesla owners will just get annoyed when a Chevy Bolt pulls in taking up a charger for an hour because it's so slow to charge. I also don't see Tesla installing new / additional CCS cables as it's of no value for them and any adapters are probably going to be limited to 50Kw due to heat \ safety issues. The way the Tesla chargers are designed are also going to limit what cars can use them because the cables are quite short and every car maker has decided to stick its charging port all over the place.

It's easier outside of the US because all Teslas are fitted with CCS.
 

Adnillien

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Aug 23, 2020
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Paradise Valley, AZ
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I doubt they will ever open in the US. They're already overcrowded and Tesla owners will just get annoyed when a Chevy Bolt pulls in taking up a charger for an hour because it's so slow to charge. I also don't see Tesla installing new / additional CCS cables as it's of no value for them and any adapters are probably going to be limited to 50Kw due to heat \ safety issues. The way the Tesla chargers are designed are also going to limit what cars can use them because the cables are quite short and every car maker has decided to stick its charging port all over the place.

It's easier outside of the US because all Teslas are fitted with CCS.
I think the opposite. While the Tesla Supercharger network is a great advantage for Tesla now, it likely will not remain that way. More new investment will support CCS rather than Tesla and many government grants will require it. While still many years away, what is now a strength for Tesla could become a liability. I also suspect that Elon wants to divest the supercharger network at some point. It was a required infrastructure play at the beginning but that is changing. The Supercharger network is a lot more valuable supporting CCS and Tesla. It is infrastructure and not new technology where Elon likes to focus.

There are also hints that Tesla may move to CCS in the future even in the US. There are a lot of advantages to a single standard along even setting aside the risk of government mandates. Elon has even advocated for a single standard.

All that said, opening up the Tesla network to CCS may not happen quickly.
 

chacha72

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Oct 12, 2021
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Lucid Pure
I think the opposite. While the Tesla Supercharger network is a great advantage for Tesla now, it likely will not remain that way. More new investment will support CCS rather than Tesla and many government grants will require it. While still many years away, what is now a strength for Tesla could become a liability. I also suspect that Elon wants to divest the supercharger network at some point. It was a required infrastructure play at the beginning but that is changing. The Supercharger network is a lot more valuable supporting CCS and Tesla. It is infrastructure and not new technology where Elon likes to focus.

There are also hints that Tesla may move to CCS in the future even in the US. There are a lot of advantages to a single standard along even setting aside the risk of government mandates. Elon has even advocated for a single standard.

All that said, opening up the Tesla network to CCS may not happen quickly.
Already implemented CCS2 on refresh X models/
1641922939053.png


 

manitou202

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Nov 2, 2021
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Already implemented CCS2 on refresh X models/
View attachment 514


Tesla has had CCS2 on Model 3/Y in Europe for a while. CCS2 is the European standard.

We still have yet to see Tesla implement a CCS (North American standard) on any of their vehicles. Whether they like it or not CCS won out in North America. It's the Betamax versus VHS debate. The longer Tesla holds out with their own plug in North America, the worse it becomes for all of their legacy vehicles. Eventually CCS stations will far surpass Tesla stations, and Tesla owners will always need to purchase and bring an adapter. There are also potentially power limitations with the adapters as they create another joint in the electrical connection.
 

Paladin732

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Nov 21, 2021
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Tesla has had CCS2 on Model 3/Y in Europe for a while. CCS2 is the European standard.

We still have yet to see Tesla implement a CCS (North American standard) on any of their vehicles. Whether they like it or not CCS won out in North America. It's the Betamax versus VHS debate. The longer Tesla holds out with their own plug in North America, the worse it becomes for all of their legacy vehicles. Eventually CCS stations will far surpass Tesla stations, and Tesla owners will always need to purchase and bring an adapter. There are also potentially power limitations with the adapters as they create another joint in the electrical connection.
They know their standard is proprietary. Until there is regulatory reason (such as in EU), they won't use the standard here.
 

Steveinarizona

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Jan 14, 2022
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I believe it is partly around billing.

Tesla has the luxury of allowing you to plug in and charge and bill directly from the car later if there is a network issue getting the superchargers to fully authorize.
EA does not have that luxury.

I still think that Tesla should be required to share the Supercharger network (at reasonable rates, using industry standards) like they are having to do in the EU.

I admire what Tesla and Musk have accomplished but not the way he got there and the arrogance of both the man and the company. Having said that, Tesla invested a huge sum in its supercharger network and I don't think it is fair to REQUIRE Tesla to share it.
 

Paladin732

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I admire what Tesla and Musk have accomplished but not the way he got there and the arrogance of both the man and the company. Having said that, Tesla invested a huge sum in its supercharger network and I don't think it is fair to REQUIRE Tesla to share it.
Its infrastructure at this point. I think they can charge fair rates, but either existing ones should be required to meet standards OR they should only be permitted to build future ones that match the country-wide standards.
 

hydbob

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Nov 14, 2021
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I admire what Tesla and Musk have accomplished but not the way he got there and the arrogance of both the man and the company. Having said that, Tesla invested a huge sum in its supercharger network and I don't think it is fair to REQUIRE Tesla to share it.
Well, they did get a loan from the Department of Energy to build it out. Also, they aren't being required to share it. But, Tesla is a business. They want those billions for charging infrastructure that are being discussed. Recently, BP announced that EV charging will soon be more profitable than gas sales. These companies aren't stupid, there is A LOT of money to be made through charging networks.
 

idiot900

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Jan 4, 2022
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Touring (reserved)
Recently, BP announced that EV charging will soon be more profitable than gas sales.

The profit margin for gas sales at the pump has always been quite low. Gas stations make their money on their convenience stores. Hence EV "stations" would have a perverse incentive to keep their mean charging times long enough that their chargers are always full, but nobody is waiting long enough to go elsewhere, in order to maximize foot traffic in their convenience stores.
 

HC_79

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Tesla is like Apple, the hardware and software are so integrated that it's easy for them to control how it works which is why alot of people like them. EA is an absolute mess and part of it is because there are 20 or so protocols that automakers can use for CCS so EA needs to make sure the machines can accommodate. It's just old school mentality of legacy automakers doing their own thing and expecting one system to accommodate.

I have not had a single road trip where I haven't had to call EA. From the chargers simply not working to them not delivering the correct speed. Yesterday I was stuck in Bakersfield on the phone to them for 30 mins because a charger wouldn't go beyond 35Kw. This was after I moved the car due to another charger not working and a Rivian using the other. The go to response for EA is "it's the car not requesting enough power not a charger issue" I told her to just restart the charger and it did nothing to improve the situation (90% of the time is resolves charger issues). Luckily, the Rivian left and I moved the car and got 147Kw charging speed instantly. I told the EA rep to stop blaming the car when it's clearly an issue with the charging network.

I won't be surprised is a thread opens up on here about EA shortly. The plug and charge is the least of our worries if the charger can't deliver the speeds then we'll all be sitting at them for hours with such a large battery in the car. No point complaining to Lucid as they don't own the infrastructure and no point complaining to EA as they will blame Lucid so I do envy the Tesla approach as it just works.
 
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