Engineering Explained joining the Lucid Lemon Club

[borski]

Dlala told me today that there would be an upcoming software "fix" for this issue. If they don't replace the bad chip, though, I'm not sure I want to drive this car except locally until the software fix is issued and confirmed to work. And I don't know if the chip can be replaced without replacing the drive unit.

I would feel pretty comfortable driving it knowing it isn't an issue with the actual motor, and that a sleep fixes it. I suspect (but do not know) the upcoming software fix is another workaround to handle it. I also don't know if the chip can be replaced without replacing the drive unit.

What I do know is that we have taken this car on an out-of-state road trip twice, and we've come home in a rental car twice.

Yeah, you've really had a bad set of experiences. Mine could not be more different, as we have now gone on 7 road trips since we got the car with no issues, but the inconsistency (or, rather, your consistency) would drive me nuts.

 

[hmp10]

Who is to blame is actually irrelevant.

I'd prefer to stay out of this tangent to the discussion, but I do want to comment on the above point.

I'm not looking to assign "blame" with an aim toward retribution or excoriation. But I am looking to understand where the cause of some of these issues originates.

As someone who has had a drive unit in an Air replaced and had a drive unit in a Gravity replaced -- and with a third now up in the air -- I want to know enough about the cause to know what the risk might be in buying another Lucid or recommending one to friends or family.

As someone who lived through months of headaches with Air locking/unlocking issues and is now living through the same thing with two Gravities, I want to know the cause -- especially as each model used fobs from different manufacturers, leaving Lucid as the common element.

As someone who felt almost physically battered by long months Air software torture and am now living through it again with the Gravities, I want to know if it will happen again with another Lucid model -- both as a stockholder and as an owner who even now sees other reasons to stick with the brand.

In short, I want to know if Lucid has the expertise in-house to attempt to do everything they aspire to do. I know they have the automotive engineering and design chops in spades. What I don't know is if they have the supply chain skills, the production engineering capability, the assembly and QA disciplines, and the software understanding to be manufacturing cars instead of licensing powertrain technology and/or consulting on design and chassis engineering.

 

[borski]

I'd prefer to stay out of this tangent to the discussion, but I do want to comment on the above point.
I'm not looking to assign "blame" with an aim toward retribution or excoriation. But I am looking to understand where the cause of some of these issues originates.

Totally. I agree with you completely there.

As someone who has had a drive unit in an Air replaced and had a drive unit in a Gravity replaced -- and with a third now up in the air -- I want to know enough about the cause to know what the risk might be in buying another Lucid or recommending one to friends or family.

This cause is not the same as any of the Air causes. Of that, I am certain.

As someone who lived through months of headaches with Air locking/unlocking issues and is now living through the same thing with two Gravities, I want to know the cause -- especially as each model used fobs from different manufacturers, leaving Lucid as the common element.

Different topic, but I agree.

As someone who felt almost physically battered by long months Air software torture and am now living through it again with the Gravities, I want to know if it will happen again with another Lucid model -- both as a stockholder and as an owner who even now sees other reasons to stick with the brand.

All totally reasonable.

In short, I want to know if Lucid has the expertise in-house to attempt to do everything they aspire to do. I know they have the automotive engineering and design chops in spades. What I don't know is if they have the supply chain skills, the production engineering capability, the assembly and QA disciplines, and the software understanding to be manufacturing cars instead of licensing powertrain technology and/or consulting on design and chassis engineering.

That is really the question, and this very much depends on your experience. If you ask me? Totally. My cars have been mostly problemless.

If I were you? I would have made them buy it back a long time ago.

Different experiences. I believe they do have the expertise and while they keep shooting themselves in the foot I hope that they have holstered the gun. I'm sure plenty more will go wrong, but the direction is on track to where I think it should go, and we shall see how that lands.

I'm hopeful and optimistic, but I recognize that is different from many, and I'm also not blind.

 

[gaskiller]

Are you expecting him to buy each of these cars, drive it exclusively for a year and then report? He bought an Air. He spoke of it highly when he got it. Then the reality struck.

EE is doing a smear campaign…..quite obvious. No need to constantly complain about mundane things and post videos every few months.

 

[Cheezynachos]

EE is doing a smear campaign…..quite obvious. No need to constantly complain about mundane things and post videos every few months.

A smear campaign??

How dare he talk about his experience. What a jerk, that guy.

 

[gaskiller]

Lucid is far from flawless, but part of taking on a car from a start-up company is that you should expect something that is not fully sorted. That is not being a fanboy, that setting realistic expectations. The fallacy of this video series is that it comes from a false premise that Lucid is legacy OEM that needs a public beat down for producing a flawed product. It's not like we have decades of consumer experience and now this Air comes along and is some major departure from what came before it. Lucid has been flawed from the start, which is totally understandable and widely known. This could have been a series that helps set these expectations rather than a full on curb stomp to an already bloody and weakened opponent.

Exactly, that’s what I have been saying…..EE has unrealistic expectations and starts smearing Lucid. Ok, he lost lines once when reversing, Big Deal! Cup holdovers to tight, doors didn’t open immediately once, Apple CarPlay glitchy- wireless is never perfect in most cars…..and now he goes on a smear campaign.

 

[HC_79]

EE is doing a smear campaign…..quite obvious. No need to constantly complain about mundane things and post videos every few months.

Do you not understand how the influencer game works? These people make money from engagement. “Everything is great, car still drives nice” doesn’t generate clicks. Drama, outrage and constant negativity do. The more emotional the content, the more views and revenue it brings in.

 

[hmp10]

I would feel pretty comfortable driving it knowing it isn't an issue with the actual motor, and that a sleep fixes it.

I'm still uneasy for a couple of reasons. When I first contacted Emad about this, he said it was likely a chip issue in an inverter and that there would be an update at some point to address it. He also said they would first have to diagnose our car and determine the root cause. At that point he made no mention of a sleep cycle getting the car running again.

It was only several hours later after he took the issue up with Engineering that he passed their answer on to me about power cycling the car. Then later in the day he said they were still trying to "root cause" the problem.

So I'm not absolutely sure that power cycling the car is a reliable workaround or just a guess/hope of someone in Engineering. I'll take that risk if I'm running around town. I'm not going to take it again on a long road trip in this car. Since our other Gravity was manufactured six months later, maybe I'd put it on the long road . . . but sure as hell not over a holiday weekend or outside of Customer Service hours (which have shrunken in recent months).

_________________

Even getting the car picked up was quite the exercise and resulted in the car sitting unattended in a public parking lot from around 8:00 a.m.until after 5:00 p.m. As I tell the following story, I want it to be clear that everyone I dealt with today was courteous and really trying to be as helpful as they could within the confines of the policies that constrain them:

When I called Roadside Assistance, they said all they could do was have the car towed to my home or to a nearby garage. I asked if they could also arrange us transportation back home, and they said no. As Customer Care was closed, I called the Miami Service Center for help. As with Emad, they apparently had no idea that a power cycle might get the car running again. They got right on the case of getting us a rental car reserved through the Lucid account with Enterprise and having an Uber pick us up, again on the Lucid account.

When I told them that this started at a Buc-ee's Supercharger location but that we were now sidelined on a rural backroad, they asked if I could get the car back to Buc-ee's where it would be easier to find it. (We could not get a pin drop to work between our two phones.) I agreed, we put on the emergency flashers, and got back on the interstate at 52 mph. While the Uber was taking us to Enterprise, it suddenly occurred to me that I had better confirm that Lucid was going to arrange the tow. When I called Miami they said no, I should have arranged the tow with Roadside Assistance when I first called them. I told them that at that point I had no idea whether Lucid would want the car to go to Miami or Roswell. Lucid said it needed to go to Roswell, so I told them I'd call Roadside Assistance.

So I called Roadside Assistance. When I told them that Lucid wanted the car taken to Roswell, they said that, since that was more than 100 miles, only Lucid personnel could request the tow. I pushed back, saying that Lucid told me I had to arrange the tow, so she put me on hold to consult with her supervisor. I watched my phone tick down 21 minutes while I remained on hold. By then we were at Enterprise, so I just hung up. She later called me back to say they had talked to Lucid and that someone from Lucid would call me shortly. An hour later no call had come, so I called Lucid. They knew nothing about anyone being supposed to call me. They did tell me that because of the distance to Roswell, the car would have to be put on a transport rather than towed there and that a transport could not even be scheduled until Tuesday, perhaps with a pickup later in the week. They asked if there was somewhere nearby to where the car could be towed and stored pending transport, such as with friends or family. I told them my brother in Atlanta was the only such person in the state, and he was in a mid-town high rise over 100 miles away (i. e., almost to Roswell).

This went on for almost four hours.

Meantime, we were wending our way down I-75 and were almost at the Florida state line when I got the text from Emad suggesting I try to power cycle the car -- which was now 200 miles behind us.

So, that was my day. How was everyone else's?

 

[HC_79]

Yeah, smear campaign…..another YouTuber jerk….lost a lot of respect for him

You need to take the good with the bad. The guy is allowed to talk about his issues just like everyone does in here on a daily basis. He just has a wider audience that potentially listens. Although, I do question if a majority of Lucid’s demographic would even know who he is.

It amazes me that everyone will rave about these influencers when they make positive videos but the moment they make a negative one, the pitch forks come out.

 

[borski]

EE is doing a smear campaign…..quite obvious. No need to constantly complain about mundane things and post videos every few months.

This is not true. Jason doesn’t have anything against Lucid as far as I can tell; in fact, I suspect he wishes his experience were flawless. If I’d had his car, I might’ve made the same video.

 

[borski]

So I'm not absolutely sure that power cycling the car is a reliable workaround or just a guess/hope of someone in Engineering. I'll take that risk if I'm running around town. I'm not going to take it again on a long road trip in this car. Since our other Gravity was manufactured six months later, maybe I'd put it on the long road . . . but sure as hell not over a holiday weekend or outside of Customer Service hours (which have shrunken in recent months).

That’s totally fair. I don’t know the answer to this one.

 

[hmp10]

Man you are a glutton for punishment. There is no award at the end for sticking it out the longest - cut your losses and regain your sanity. I’d absolutely let Lucid buy those back and let them tear them down for an autopsy on their time and dime, not yours.

At some point you have to believe the truth about your cars - they keep telling you what they are but you keep wanting them to be something different.

Part of the reason is that I have put almost $40,000 into the radar detectors and PPF on the two Gravities. But there's a more complex reason, too.

Both times we've had to drive home in a rental car (a Mazda CX9 last summer and a Mitsubishi Outlander today), driving them right on the heels of a Gravity really pounds home just how damned good the Lucids are when they're working the way intended. Absolutely everything about them meets or beats any other car I've owned: power, handling, room, comfort, style, materials quality, the subtle accuracy of the sound system -- even UI layout (as distinct from execution). And I've owned some pretty nice cars over the years.

We spent some of the drive home brainstorming what we might want to get should we finally throw in the towel on this one Gravity even if we kept the other. But we could come up with nothing. Every other choice entailed a compromise we didn't want to make. The Porsche Cayenne EV was the only thing we really noodled at length, but its space engineering is not in the same league as Lucid's.

So we're going to hang onto hope a little longer and see what the next two updates that are in the works bring. Our Air climbed out of the early abyss to become a reliable and durable beast that we now love more than early days. Maybe, maybe the Gravity can still pull it off.

 

[Northpointe]

EE is doing a smear campaign…..quite obvious. No need to constantly complain about mundane things and post videos every few months.

The Air routinely makes the list of best EV’s in major publications and review sites. It’s frequently cited as best in its class. And many owners, myself included, consider it among the best cars we’ve ever owned. But those are also just opinions. They can co-exist in a world where others don’t have the same perspective or experience.

My advice is don’t rely on others to validate your experience or dictate how you should feel. If your experience is bad don’t wallow in it. Find something that brings you joy. And if you enjoy the car don’t let somebody else’s misery rob you of that joy.

 

[borski]

The Air routinely makes the list of best EV’s in major publications and review sites. It’s frequently cited as best in its class. And many owners, myself included, consider it among the best cars we’ve ever owned. But those are also just opinions. They can co-exist in a world where others don’t have the same perspective or experience.

My advice is don’t rely on others to validate your experience or dictate how you should feel. If your experience is bad don’t wallow in it. Find something that brings you joy. And if you enjoy the car don’t let somebody else’s misery rob you of that joy.

This. All of this. I find, often, people let others tell them how much they're allowed to like or not like their things.

Don't. Find the thing you like. Drive it. I might hate it, but I'll be very happy you like it!

 

[9point81]

We spent some of the drive home brainstorming what we might want to get should we finally throw in the towel on this one Gravity even if we kept the other. But we could come up with nothing. Every other choice entailed a compromise we didn't want to make. The Porsche Cayenne EV was the only thing we really noodled at length, but its space engineering is not in the same league as Lucid's.

I thought about the same thing too not too long ago. There really isn't anything (in the US) available that I would want to replace the Gravity with. When it works right, it's absolutely unbelievable how good it is all around. Cayenne would be a second choice but a far off one. The others I considered before Gravity, the Escalade and R1S just don't fit the bill for me for various reasons. I want Lucid to succeed, get these cars and their future vehicles dialed in, and all would be absolutely sweet. If I had to give up on Gravity, I think I'd just be mad with anything else and if it had software issues (which they all do) as well, I'd probably be even madder that I just didn't stay with Gravity.
I'm no where near seriously considering changing out, it's had a few problems for me, but largely really good. If I was you tho....

 

[hmp10]

I want to close out an aggravating and exhausting day on a couple of notes:

First, a shout out to Javier and Renzo at the Miami Service Center. I know first-hand how swamped they are, and I'm pretty sure it is not their job to deal with cars that aren't in their shop or customers with roadside issues. But both of them stepped up today with friendliness and understanding to help us out of a real bind when Customer Care was not around. I can't thank them enough. Even once they knew the car would go to Roswell instead of Miami, they never seized on an excuse to turn us away or fob us off onto someone else.

Second, to Lucid management. Customer Service used to be open seven days a week and start at an hour that covered morning on the east coast. They are now closed on Sundays and do not open other days until 8:00 a.m. Pacific time. The workloads that are apparent to anyone trying to get on a Service Center schedule make it clear that customers need more support than the reduced hours in Customer Care are giving them. Roadside Assistance is a third party that is very limited in the scope of what they know and can do and is not an after-hours substitute for Customer Care.

I know Lucid has to keep an eye on costs, but this is a very risky place to do it in the long term.

 

[martinjlm]

Part of the reason is that I have put almost $40,000 into the radar detectors and PPF on the two Gravities. But there's a more complex reason, too.

Both times we've had to drive home in a rental car (a Mazda CX9 last summer and a Mitsubishi Outlander today), driving them right on the heels of a Gravity really pounds home just how damned good the Lucids are when they're working the way intended. Absolutely everything about them meets or beats any other car I've owned: power, handling, room, comfort, style, materials quality, the subtle accuracy of the sound system -- even UI layout (as distinct from execution). And I've owned some pretty nice cars over the years.

We spent some of the drive home brainstorming what we might want to get should we finally throw in the towel on this one Gravity even if we kept the other. But we could come up with nothing. Every other choice entailed a compromise we didn't want to make. The Porsche Cayenne EV was the only thing we really noodled at length, but its space engineering is not in the same league as Lucid's.

So we're going to hang onto hope a little longer and see what the next two updates that are in the works bring. Our Air climbed out of the early abyss to become a reliable and durable beast that we now love more than early days. Maybe, maybe the Gravity can still pull it off.

The Air routinely makes the list of best EV’s in major publications and review sites. It’s frequently cited as best in its class. And many owners, myself included, consider it among the best cars we’ve ever owned. But those are also just opinions. They can co-exist in a world where others don’t have the same perspective or experience.

My advice is don’t rely on others to validate your experience or dictate how you should feel. If your experience is bad don’t wallow in it. Find something that brings you joy. And if you enjoy the car don’t let somebody else’s misery rob you of that joy.

The dilemma that is Lucid Air / Gravity...
When you look at the entirety of what people tend to want, they check all the boxes. They are at or near the top of the class in all things measurable and many things perceived. When they work, they check all the boxes. But when they don't...oh my

You want a fast car? Air is among the fastest.
Luxurious ride? Air and Gravity deliver.
You want to nerd out on aerodynamics? Air is the most aerodynamic. Full stop. And do that without looking like an egg or a jelly bean? Done.
You want class leading passenger room? Air and Gravity are absolutely amazing.
Cargo capacity? Ditto.
You want great range? Air and Gravity are top of their respective classes.
Charging speed? Among the best.

It is nearly impossible to find another car that checks so many boxes so solidly.

But when the doors don't open... or the frunk doesn't open... or the HVAC seems to have a mind of its own... or Bluetooth, CarPlay, and Android Auto are prone to drop out at any given time for no particular reason those things can confound the most erstwhile owner. And when addressing these nuisance occurrences results in being without your vehicle for days, no weeks no months, frustration can and will build. We see it here in thread after thread.

When it's right it's soooo good. But the propensity for stupid stuff is definitely confounding.

 

[drb3333]

The dilemma that is Lucid Air / Gravity...
When you look at the entirety of what people tend to want, they check all the boxes. They are at or near the top of the class in all things measurable and many things perceived. When they work, they check all the boxes. But when they don't...oh my

You want a fast car? Air is among the fastest.
Luxurious ride? Air and Gravity deliver.
You want to nerd out on aerodynamics? Air is the most aerodynamic. Full stop. And do that without looking like an egg or a jelly bean? Done.
You want class leading passenger room? Air and Gravity are absolutely amazing.
Cargo capacity? Ditto.
You want great range? Air and Gravity are top of their respective classes.
Charging speed? Among the best.

It is nearly impossible to find another car that checks so many boxes so solidly.

I profoundly agree with the previous statements. hmp10 has every right to find himself in a disappointing place yet is taking a prudent and mature position with saintly patience.

The only thing that I might add is the fact that these are a dynamic experience, which in a perfect world, can be eventually solved with enough software updates. And in this unfortunate case, some trips to Lucid Service to upgrade failed components.

We are not saddled with horrible products which will never be remedied as might have been the case in a different era. Rather there is the promise of owning an extraordinary vehicle at the end of the ongoing process. It is worth it if one persists, and there are plenty of examples of lucky forum owners with near-flawless vehicles.

I think hmp10's commitment will be rewarded.

 

[martinjlm]

I profoundly agree with the previous statements. hmp10 has every right to find himself in a disappointing place yet is taking a prudent and mature position with saintly patience.

The only thing that I might add is the fact that these are a dynamic experience, which in a perfect world, can be eventually solved with enough software updates. And in this unfortunate case, some trips to Lucid Service to upgrade failed components.

We are not saddled with horrible products which will never be remedied as might have been the case in a different era. Rather there is the promise of owning an extraordinary vehicle at the end of the ongoing process. It is worth it if one persists, and there are plenty of examples of lucky forum owners with near-flawless vehicles.

I think hmp10's commitment will be rewarded.

BOLD = The reason I took a risk on this car in the first place. I recently retired from an automotive consultant position and before that product planning at a major automaker. I knew a lot about Lucid before the first car was ever built due to some of my work as a consultant. One of my former colleagues at the major automaker (and classmate at engineering school) left to become a double digit employee at Atieva. I knew the car had flaws. But I also knew that for the most part they are software related and NOT on the level of Fisker software problems. More in line with the Blazer EV launch software problems. IOW - solvable.

BLUE = My sincerest hope.

 

[9point81]

I want to close out an aggravating and exhausting day on a couple of notes:

First, a shout out to Javier and Renzo at the Miami Service Center. I know first-hand how swamped they are, and I'm pretty sure it is not their job to deal with cars that aren't in their shop or customers with roadside issues. But both of them stepped up today with friendliness and understanding to help us out of a real bind when Customer Care was not around. I can't thank them enough. Even once they knew the car would go to Roswell instead of Miami, they never seized on an excuse to turn us away or fob us off onto someone else.

Second, to Lucid management. Customer Service used to be open seven days a week and start at an hour that covered morning on the east coast. They are now closed on Sundays and do not open other days until 8:00 a.m. Pacific time. The workloads that are apparent to anyone trying to get on a Service Center schedule make it clear that customers need more support than the reduced hours in Customer Care are giving them. Roadside Assistance is a third party that is very limited in the scope of what they know and can do and is not an after-hours substitute for Customer Care.

I know Lucid has to keep an eye on costs, but this is a very risky place to do it in the long term.

Needs to be said and emphasized, Lucid you HAVE to open the customer service line 7 days a week and more reasonable hours for those of us on the east coast. You sold cars out here and we'd like proper support too.