[Edmunds] TESTED: 2022 Lucid Air Grand Touring Misses EPA Range by Nearly 80 Miles

[1shah]

On at 70F, ambient temp was 75, wheels 19” at correct PSI. It’s just funny to me because in science if you try to replicate test results you MUST also duplicate the methods of the test. Why on earth not a single writer to date in automotive journalism understands this very simple idea is confusing to me.

Agree. I have seen 5mi/kWh if I drive 60sm/hr with HVAC off

 

[Viking]

I am either the outlier or Pure is bit more efficient. In 2000 miles 50% highway 50% streets, 5 over the limit on streets and 70mpg HA on the highway, I got 3.8 mi / kWh. Temp was around 55 on the average where I drove.

So that gives you about 92 kWh * 3.8, 350 miles range from full to empty. That is less then the 400+ EPA range for the Pure. What does the car say the range is at 100% SOC?

FYI, I get about 3.6 mi/kWh on my Tesla 90D SoCal climate.

 

[SM_NCarolina]

Just as an update, by accident I basically drove like EPA on the way back from Boston, mix of 55-66mph with a few spurts of 70mph+ and look what my efficiency was, nearly EPA! These articles are dumb.

I agree, on my long road trip recently, right after charging on the way I experimented with some controlled driving for about 100+ miles and hit 4.1 kWh. My car was at full capacity inside (3 adults and a teenager) as well in frunk and boot (1 large, 3 small suitcases, and 3 bags). Outside temperatures were close to 74 and ambient at 72. Before and after, I gave a F*** about the EPA range or range for our drive. We just drove as we would drive with an ICE.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Before and after, I gave a F*** about the EPA range or range for our drive. We just drove as we would drive with an ICE.

A man after my own heart.

 

[Bobby]

So that gives you about 92 kWh * 3.8, 350 miles range from full to empty. That is less then the 400+ EPA range for the Pure. What does the car say the range is at 100% SOC?

FYI, I get about 3.6 mi/kWh on my Tesla 90D SoCal climate.

The car will always say EPA range on the state of charge indicator on the dashboard. I think rhis should be changed to an actual estimate but that’s not the way it works currently. That’s why I encourage all owners to switch over to percentage and multiply that percentage by your efficiency and your battery size in order to estimate miles remaining. This is a minor pain in the neck, but it’s what we have to deal with at this point.

 

[Viking]

The car will always say EPA range on the state of charge indicator on the dashboard. I think rhis should be changed to an actual estimate but that’s not the way it works currently. That’s why I encourage all owners to switch over to percentage and multiply that percentage by your efficiency and your battery size in order to estimate miles remaining. This is a minor pain in the neck, but it’s what we have to deal with at this point.

Humm. Not the case with my Tesla. It seems to have taken battery degradation into account.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Do you notice in GT or touring that much difference if there is 1 person vs 2? 3.2 mi / kWh vs 3.8 I got?

Just recently did a road trip, mixed of highway and city miles. I got yo-yo of 3.2 ~ 2.9 and eventually got home at 3.0 mi/kWh. 930.3mi / 308 kWh * 112 kWh = 338 miles, 338/469 = 72% of EPA.

If Edmund did 15% discrepancy and I have 17% more discrepancy, there is something wrong with Edmund’s driving parameters.

Here are my parameters:

Weight: 2 persons + 3 medium size luggages

Acceleration: A lot of on and off freeway ramp due to getting lost in direction and city sight-seeing. And passing thru constant elevation change in Texas Hills Country. And at Austin city limit, plenty of traffic stop and go.

Outside climate: 74F ~ 80F

Cabin usage: HVAC auto set to 64F and one third of trip we use massage in both chairs. Music was on 90% of time.

Driving style: Free spirit with occasional launch to show off to my friend.

Velocity: Swift mode last 3 days, doing mostly 75 mph on highway with occasional acceleration to 115mph.

Tires: 21” @ 38~41 psi

Wind: Unknown

Edmund probably needs to optimize its test.

 

[Bobby]

Humm. Not the case with my Tesla. It seems to have taken battery degradation into account.

But Tesla still quotes the EPA range on their advertising.

 

[HariK]

So that gives you about 92 kWh * 3.8, 350 miles range from full to empty. That is less then the 400+ EPA range for the Pure. What does the car say the range is at 100% SOC?

FYI, I get about 3.6 mi/kWh on my Tesla 90D SoCal climate.

EPA range is at 55 mph and I am sure that all Lucids will get EPA range at that speed. Right now at 23% of 92kWh which is 21.16kWh it says 81 miles which is 3.8 miles per KWh which is what I have at 2400 miles

 

[HariK]

View attachment 11567

Just recently did a road trip, mixed of highway and city miles. I got yo-yo of 3.2 ~ 2.9 and eventually got home at 3.0 mi/kWh. 930.3mi / 308 kWh * 112 kWh = 338 miles, 338/469 = 72% of EPA.

If Edmund did 15% discrepancy and I have 17% more discrepancy, there is something wrong with Edmund’s driving parameters.

Here are my parameters:

Weight: 2 persons + 3 medium size luggages

Acceleration: A lot of on and off freeway ramp due to getting lost in direction and city sight-seeing. And passing thru constant elevation change in Texas Hills Country. And at Austin city limit, plenty of traffic stop and go.

Outside climate: 74F ~ 80F

Cabin usage: HVAC auto set to 64F and one third of trip we use massage in both chairs. Music was on 90% of time.

Driving style: Free spirit with occasional launch to show off to my friend.

Velocity: Swift mode last 3 days, doing mostly 75 mph on highway with occasional acceleration to 115mph.

Tires: 21” @ 38~41 psi

Wind: Unknown

Edmund probably needs to optimize its test.

Each test is different. If you drive at 55mph on a flat Rd like EPA, you will get EPA range which is just a way to compare cars and not at all applicable to the actual driving. I think EPA test must be at 65 to 75 which are legal speed limits for the highway.

 

[Bobby]

Each test is different. If you drive at 55mph on a flat Rd like EPA, you will get EPA range which is just a way to compare cars and not at all applicable to the actual driving. I think EPA test must be at 65 to 75 which are legal speed limits for the highway.

EPA mileage is actually achievable with extremely conservative driving. Lucid did follow the rules of the test, and why not try to get the highest number possible to use it in advertising? I’m OK with that… It’s important that people do their due diligence before buying a product like this. If you have a complaint it needs to be with the EPA, not Lucid.

That said, I do not find it appropriate that the miles remaining in the car does not take into account actual driving, it continues to use EPA regardless of actual efficiency.

 

[Fischman]

EPA mileage is actually achievable with extremely conservative driving. Lucid did follow the rules of the test, and why not try to get the highest number possible to use it in advertising? I’m OK with that… It’s important that people do their due diligence before buying a product like this. If you have a complaint it needs to be with the EPA, not Lucid.

That said, I do not find it appropriate that the miles remaining in the car does not take into account actual driving, it continues to use EPA regardless of actual efficiency.

im getting ready to take my first extended road trip. Could you walk me through the calculation you are talking about.

 

[Bobby]

Average efficiency (m/kWh) x percent of battery remaining x battery size (kWh)

Average efficiency is displayed on the pilot panel and can be reset at the beginning of your trip.

Percent of battery remaining is displayed on the main dashboard and is preferable to miles remaining. You can adjust this in the displays setting.

Battery size will depend on your car.

So, in my Grand Touring I have a 112 kW battery. If I have 30% state of charge and I have an average efficiency of 3.3, that gives me 112 x 3.3 x 30% which equals 111 miles remaining.

 

[Fischman]

Average efficiency (m/kWh) x percent of battery remaining x battery size (kWh)

Average efficiency is displayed on the pilot panel and can be reset at the beginning of your trip.

Percent of battery remaining is displayed on the main dashboard and is preferable to miles remaining. You can adjust this in the displays setting.

Battery size will depend on your car.

So, in my Grand Touring I have a 112 kW battery. If I have 30% state of charge and I have an average efficiency of 3.3, that gives me 112 x 3.3 x 30% which equals 111 miles remaining.

Thank you!

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Average efficiency (m/kWh) x percent of battery remaining x battery size (kWh)

Average efficiency is displayed on the pilot panel and can be reset at the beginning of your trip.

Percent of battery remaining is displayed on the main dashboard and is preferable to miles remaining. You can adjust this in the displays setting.

Battery size will depend on your car.

So, in my Grand Touring I have a 112 kW battery. If I have 30% state of charge and I have an average efficiency of 3.3, that gives me 112 x 3.3 x 30% which equals 111 miles remaining.

BTW one of the only worthwhile uses for Alexa is to have it do the math for you. Anytime I want to know how many miles I actually have left, I just tell Alexa to multiply my % SOC by 110 (I’m assuming a 2kw degradation), then tell it to multiply that by my average mi/kWh. For example if I were at 46% SOC and my average mi/kWh was 3.8, then I would say “Hey Alexa, multiply 0.46 by 110”, and then say “multiply 3.8 by (whatever the answer to the previous one is)”. This is a very accurate way to predict how many miles remaining on your driving style. Given it’s such simple math I’m assuming the car will implement it at some point.

 

[Fischman]

Average efficiency (m/kWh) x percent of battery remaining x battery size (kWh)

Average efficiency is displayed on the pilot panel and can be reset at the beginning of your trip.

Percent of battery remaining is displayed on the main dashboard and is preferable to miles remaining. You can adjust this in the displays setting.

Battery size will depend on your car.

So, in my Grand Touring I have a 112 kW battery. If I have 30% state of charge and I have an average efficiency of 3.3, that gives me 112 x 3.3 x 30% which equals 111 miles remaining.

Does this mean that when I preplan a trip and lucid navigation that where I need to stop to charge will be wrong or will my charge stops be recalculated as I drive?

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Does this mean that when I preplan a trip and lucid navigation that where I need to stop to charge will be wrong or will my charge stops be recalculated as I drive?

I’ve not seen an instance where the Lucid navigation directed the driver past a needed charging stop to reach a destination resulting in complete battery depletion (see out of spec Dave’s road trip video where he accidentally skipped a stop the car recommended, and he still made it but in turtle mode with 3 mi remaining!), as the navigation is actually very good at predicting what your arrival SOC% will be, it’s only the “miles remaining” display on the cockpit that’s unreliable. HOWEVER, I think it’s good practice to make sure you arrive at your destination with 20% remaining so you’ve got options, and the Lucid navigation does not account for that, so you may need to make a different plan that what the car recommends, and that’s where ABRP comes in super handy as you can tell it whatever you want your destination SOC% to be and it will plan the stops.

 

[hmp10]

im getting ready to take my first extended road trip. Could you walk me through the calculation you are talking about.

I use this method, too, sometimes. However, after doing some test runs on a flat, straight interstate in warm weather holding close to 80mph, our Air on 21" wheels gets about 78% of its rated range. So I just multiply indicated range by 75% to get the quick-and-dirty real-world highway range. (We don't take road trips into cold winter climes, which would require further adjustment.)

Like Bunnylebowski, we always plan charging stops with something between 20-30% SOC remaining to allow for unexpected conditions. This means we can drive the Air exactly the way we would a gasoline-powered car for more than three hours, at which point our bladders would demand a stop if our battery pack didn't.

We're also on our second Tesla. What I have learned is that EPA ratings are of very little use. I used to think they were are least useful for comparing one model or brand to another but, as I came to understand the difference between the 2-cycle and 5-cycle testing protocols, I realized the EPA ratings were useless even for that purpose. What I do know -- and all that really matters to me -- is that our Air delivers the longest real-world driving range of any EV on the market right now.

Given our range-limited bladders, we stop no more frequently on EV road trips than we did on ICE trips. Sure, the stops take longer than gas fill-ups . . . but then again we are spared dozens of visits to gas stations the rest of year by home-charging our EVs.

 

[xponents]

I do have a question. On most places, it seems as if the dream has SIGNIFICANTLY better real world test ranges than the GT. This includes edmunds as well as others. Are the samsung batteries causing this discrepancy?

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I do have a question. On most places, it seems as if the dream has SIGNIFICANTLY better real world test ranges than the GT. This includes edmunds as well as others. Are the samsung batteries causing this discrepancy?

I’m not convinced the test conditions in the GT OutOfSpec one or the Edmunds were correct. The OutOfSpec one had more on-ramp re-entries than usual (more than the Tom Moloughney test) and going from a stop up to 70mph multiple times really kills efficiency in this heavy very high powered car (IE a car with 200hp will use less battery than an 816hp car even though you’re not using max power to get up to speed). Also the Out of Spec test had more elevation changes than the Dream test. Lastly, I spoke to Tom Moloughney in person about his Dream test and he said the conditions were really optimal, like zero wind, perfect temps, very very little elevation changes, some of the most ideal conditions he’s had testing a car.

As for the Edmunds test I’m skeptical their tires were inflated correctly as their car was mistakenly delivered with 21”, so they swapped them with the 19s but the door sticker on the car would still say to inflate to the 21” pressure. I’ve seen nothing from Edmunds that they made any effort whatsoever to seek guidance from Lucid about their underperforming test, nor did they say what pressure their tires were at, and as you’ll see on their site they all generally despise the car and seem to be finding rather inane things to pick on (they didn’t try to understand how to fold the mirror visor, one guy didn’t like how the leather smelled, they seemed unaware that the nav predicts destination SOC% correctly in the pilot panel etc), so I’m not entirely sure their test is representative. Given that I got 4.5 mi/kWh driving close to what EPA testing is, if the battery is 112kw then that’s around 500 miles of range, I just only drove 60 miles.