Dining/Charging

[Haggy]

For navigation, I see an option to find places to eat. I see an option to find charging stations/EA only. I don't see an option for both. If I want to find charging stations on a route, and select ones near a place where I want to eat, how do I go about finding them?

 

[DeaneG]

Unless we happen to want to charge around a mealtime, in the Air we just separate the two, choosing a restaurant using Google Maps or Yelp when we feel like eating.
With the Air's long range and quick charging we eat more often than we charge. It's nice to have the choice to eat somewhere besides at a charging stop.

That aside, Google maps has handy "nearby" and "search along route" features that will show restaurants near a selected EV charger, or EV charging near a selected restaurant, or either along your intended route.

 

[Adnillien]

A Better Route Planner, ABRP, has the ability to see nearby amenities around a charging stop. I find it to be fairly useful.

 

[hydbob]

For navigation, I see an option to find places to eat. I see an option to find charging stations/EA only. I don't see an option for both. If I want to find charging stations on a route, and select ones near a place where I want to eat, how do I go about finding them?

Put in your food destination first. Then, add a stop and select charging, then along route.

 

[scal_air]

A Better Route Planner, ABRP, has the ability to see nearby amenities around a charging stop. I find it to be fairly useful.

Downloaded and will give it a try - Thank you!

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

A big problem with owning a Lucid is the fast-charging. I barely have time to pick-up some veggies at the Whole Foods across the parking lot from the chargers when the phone app tells me "charging complete!"

When you say "dining", you must mean Dunkin Donuts?

 

[Haggy]

A big problem with owning a Lucid is the fast-charging. I barely have time to pick-up some veggies at the Whole Foods across the parking lot from the chargers when the phone app tells me "charging complete!"

When you say "dining", you must mean Dunkin Donuts?

No, I mean a real restaurant. I'm aware that the car will charge fast, assuming that chargers work. When I use a Model S, I have enough charge by the end of my meal. With a Model 3, I'd get a message on the app that I had enough range to continue by the time I was handed a menu. With the Lucid, I expect that I'll have enough range even if I can't plug in at all. But I don't want to drive 500 miles without stopping to eat, and without a rest stop. I'd like to stop at a good restaurant, and plug in since I'll be stopped anyway, so I'll get to my destination with far more range than I need and I won't have to seek out charging stops just to charge.

Unless we happen to want to charge around a mealtime, in the Air we just separate the two, choosing a restaurant using Google Maps or Yelp when we feel like eating.
With the Air's long range and quick charging we eat more often than we charge. It's nice to have the choice to eat somewhere besides at a charging stop.

That aside, Google maps has handy "nearby" and "search along route" features that will show restaurants near a selected EV charger, or EV charging near a selected restaurant, or either along your intended route.

Yes, it will be nice to have more choices. When Tesla's network first started out, most chargers were near decent restaurants. These days, more and more are in the middle of nowhere surrounded by a handful of fast food places. I have nothing against other people eating fast food. If they want to do that, it's fine but it's not for me. But I'd like to be able to pick a restaurant and charge because I'll be stopped anyway. I might not need to charge every time, but if there's a charger near a place that I'd want to eat anyway, I'd prefer to show up at my destination with maximum charge since it won't cost me more time.

Put in your food destination first. Then, add a stop and select charging, then along route.

I've played around with that, but then I keep finding restaurants that are not within walking distance of chargers, meaning that I'd have to make another stop and wait around to charge.

A Better Route Planner, ABRP, has the ability to see nearby amenities around a charging stop. I find it to be fairly useful.

I've played around with it, and I wish there were something better. Ideally, I'd be able to look for fast EA stations near non-fast food restaurants, get a list of such restaurants along the route so I could pick a place to charge where I'd want to stop.

Tesla's approach is very different and they have many more chargers per location, but a lot fewer locations. So on a long trip, I might glance at a half dozen possible stops to see what's there, and it's not too bad. With EA, there are far more locations, with only a small number of chargers at each. Clicking on each and then pulling up a map to see what's within walking distance isn't working well for me, since there are too many places to look. And their model is to put chargers near specific businesses. Nobody is going to open a restaurant because it's near an EA charger. With Tesla, the charger is a destination with the possibility of attracting new businesses.

Ultimately, what I might end up doing is picking hotels with charging, stopping to eat where I want and using rest stops where I want, and not charging on the road at all. But I'd like options. It might turn out that I never need to stop on the road to charge at all. It will be a learning curve for me, and at this point there's a lot more for me to figure out.

 

[hydbob]

No, I mean a real restaurant. I'm aware that the car will charge fast, assuming that chargers work. When I use a Model S, I have enough charge by the end of my meal. With a Model 3, I'd get a message on the app that I had enough range to continue by the time I was handed a menu. With the Lucid, I expect that I'll have enough range even if I can't plug in at all. But I don't want to drive 500 miles without stopping to eat, and without a rest stop. I'd like to stop at a good restaurant, and plug in since I'll be stopped anyway, so I'll get to my destination with far more range than I need and I won't have to seek out charging stops just to charge.


Yes, it will be nice to have more choices. When Tesla's network first started out, most chargers were near decent restaurants. These days, more and more are in the middle of nowhere surrounded by a handful of fast food places. I have nothing against other people eating fast food. If they want to do that, it's fine but it's not for me. But I'd like to be able to pick a restaurant and charge because I'll be stopped anyway. I might not need to charge every time, but if there's a charger near a place that I'd want to eat anyway, I'd prefer to show up at my destination with maximum charge since it won't cost me more time.


I've played around with that, but then I keep finding restaurants that are not within walking distance of chargers, meaning that I'd have to make another stop and wait around to charge.


I've played around with it, and I wish there were something better. Ideally, I'd be able to look for fast EA stations near non-fast food restaurants, get a list of such restaurants along the route so I could pick a place to charge where I'd want to stop.

Tesla's approach is very different and they have many more chargers per location, but a lot fewer locations. So on a long trip, I might glance at a half dozen possible stops to see what's there, and it's not too bad. With EA, there are far more locations, with only a small number of chargers at each. Clicking on each and then pulling up a map to see what's within walking distance isn't working well for me, since there are too many places to look. And their model is to put chargers near specific businesses. Nobody is going to open a restaurant because it's near an EA charger. With Tesla, the charger is a destination with the possibility of attracting new businesses.

Ultimately, what I might end up doing is picking hotels with charging, stopping to eat where I want and using rest stops where I want, and not charging on the road at all. But I'd like options. It might turn out that I never need to stop on the road to charge at all. It will be a learning curve for me, and at this point there's a lot more for me to figure out.

Do the opposite then, pick a charger, add stop, pick food, then around destination.

 

[Haggy]

Do the opposite then, pick a charger, add stop, pick food, then around destination.

I've tried that. Lots of times there's nothing, or I'd have to take an Uber to get to a restaurant and back to the charging station. I suppose that I might learn from experience for specific routes.

 

[hydbob]

I've tried that. Lots of times there's nothing, or I'd have to take an Uber to get to a restaurant and back to the charging station. I suppose that I might learn from experience for specific routes.

Yea that's really just the byproduct of EA putting their charging sites in non-optimal places.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I almost always take a walk when the car is charging. EV ownership is good for your health.

I was just at the KoP, PA mall EA 350 chargers. The mall is high-end, and huge (and failing). I was less than half way around when I got the notice that charging was complete. I had to run back to the car. There are some restaurants but no way I'd have time to enjoy a meal before I was blocking a charger with my car fully charged. Since the charging is so quick, I keep my dining and charging separate.

If the point is there is rarely "dining" near the EA chargers, then yes. It would be nice to plug in, look at the menu, order drinks, then run out to unplug and move the Lucid, then yes, that would be very nice.

 

[Haggy]

I almost always take a walk when the car is charging. EV ownership is good for your health.

I'm fine with that, but not when the walk might be close to an hour. One problem I found years ago with Tesla was that the listed amenities were not always very close. That doesn't mean that they were too far to walk, but once I walked to one that was perhaps 20 minutes away. Then I got a warning that the charging was almost done and I'd be potentially hit with idle fees. Getting up from the restaurant, walking to the car, unplugging and walking back would have been 40 minutes and either the food would have been cold, the plate would have been cleared, or they would have called the cops because they thought that I skipped out without paying.

 

[Haggy]

Yea that's really just the byproduct of EA putting their charging sites in non-optimal places.

If they are going to stick with a model of having four chargers at some locations, with big ones not being very big, they will look for properties that will allow them to add chargers. If they switch to an approach like Tesla's and build a station with 100 chargers, they might attract businesses. If they add chargers at places where they might bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in new business, they might find places that want more chargers.

If I look at places like Harris Ranch, which was one of Tesla's original six, it has 12 EA chargers. It originally had six Tesla chargers. Now it has 100 Tesla chargers. Even if only 2-3 of those driver go into the restaurant per hour, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra business. So it's quite possible for places to make it very worthwhile to add chargers. But if they add 2-4 chargers, people avoid them because they aren't reliable, and there's no way of adding a charger to a route and having any way of knowing whether one will be available, then they might not have incentive to add more.

So in sense, having too many locations can be a bad thing, if it doesn't bring in much business for each location, there's a lower chance of availability at any location, it's impossible to have a charging stop 200 miles later and have any realistic indication of what will be in use, etc. It gives a disincentive for locations to want more chargers and probably puts repair people on the road a lot more.

Over time, this issue will likely change, but for now it's not there.

 

[joec]

I'm fine with that, but not when the walk might be close to an hour. One problem I found years ago with Tesla was that the listed amenities were not always very close. That doesn't mean that they were too far to walk, but once I walked to one that was perhaps 20 minutes away. Then I got a warning that the charging was almost done and I'd be potentially hit with idle fees. Getting up from the restaurant, walking to the car, unplugging and walking back would have been 40 minutes and either the food would have been cold, the plate would have been cleared, or they would have called the cops because they thought that I skipped out without paying.

This is an essential issue with charging infrastructure. Something I've been trumpeting since I got here. The placement of chargers at mostly Wal Marts and Sam's Clubs is a total head-slapper. And Tesla chargers are no better, for the most part. Heck, half the chargers I went to while I had my Tesla didn't even have a rest room nearby.

If charging is mainly supposed to happen on road trips, having chargers at good restaurants (not Wendy's) is a no-brainer. Why no one is doing this yet is beyond my comprehension.

Oh well. Someone will eventually figure it out.

 

[BACamster]

Like you @Haggy, I used to owner a MS. I bought a MS 70D in 2015 and have taken it to SoCal in those years. There were 2 locations on the I-T between the Bay Area and LA metro at that time - Harris Ranch and Tejon Ranch. Both are conveniently located so that we could charge our car and get something to eat. That was the SC model back then. They built SC at convenient locations that are at or near dining establishments. EA's model was and probably still is the "charge and go".

 

[Haggy]

Like you @Haggy, I used to owner a MS. I bought a MS 70D in 2015 and have taken it to SoCal in those years. There were 2 locations on the I-T between the Bay Area and LA metro at that time - Harris Ranch and Tejon Ranch. Both are conveniently located so that we could charge our car and get something to eat. That was the SC model back then. They built SC at convenient locations that are at or near dining establishments. EA's model was and probably still is the "charge and go".

It's not a question of whether or not they were convenient, but that with an S85, it would have been theoretically possible to make the trip on one charge if they had had a charger in Kettleman City. And that would have been if you never exceeded the speed limit. But with Harris Ranch and Tejon Ranch being 1/3 and 2/3 of the way between LA and the Bay Area, it meant that both were required stops. And each had six chargers. Tejon Ranch now has 24 chargers with 76 more on the other side of the freeway, with plenty of places to eat. Harris Ranch has 100 Superchargers (and 12 EA?) chargers, and I have nothing against the restaurant, except having it be the only choice on that stretch, which it was for a long time.

I found that taking 101 is longer, but there are a lot more good food choices near Superchargers, and I hope that the same will be true for CCS. It will be a matter of finding out which. On I5, there are probably about a dozen other places to stop for Tesla, but as they add more and more, dining options become less and less diverse. If I take the trip on 101, I'd need only a handful of suggestions for restaurants near EA chargers. Or possibly near other CCS chargers.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

I recommend you watch the video of the Lucid doing the Cannonball run.
Lucid cannonball run
I learned how to surf the charging curve. Now when I'm tripping I charge up to ~90% at home and plot my trip charger to charger, making shorter charging stops because I'm using the steepest part of the curve, then moving on to the next. At least on the I-95 corridor in the NE US there are enough EA chargers to get you to your destination without waiting too long at each station. Availability of open/working charges is another issue, but so far (on trips Philly to New Hampshire) I've used the amazing range of the Lucid to just move to the next charger when all the bays are full.

However...there are risks using this technique:

Last time I was in NH my sister recommended we all go to lunch at a nice restaurant. Five of us in the car; all adults. I was probably under 70% SOC, maybe less, but figured no problem, but I should have guessed the restaurant was not in or near Epping ... it was in Walpole (Ken Burn's place).
Restaurant at Burdick's
There were some hills, and snow on the ground. There are no chargers around in Walpole or Epping, so at the end of the day we got to the Wallmart in Seabrook with around 10% SOC. I think that was the time I got +320 kW initially...personal best. I was sweating it the whole way back. Next time I visit my sisters I'll be sure to "fill up" at Seabrook. Maybe I will gift them a home charger for Christmas.

So yeah, venturing off the interstate in an EV is an adventure.

 

[Haggy]

A Better Route Planner, ABRP, has the ability to see nearby amenities around a charging stop. I find it to be fairly useful.

One thing I can't figure out about ABRP is what it uses for range determination. With something like a Tesla, there are loads of choices that ask for wheel sizes, etc. With the GT, there's one setting and I have no idea what it assumes the range is. Does anybody know what wheel size they used for their data?

 

[Adnillien]

One thing I can't figure out about ABRP is what it uses for range determination. With something like a Tesla, there are loads of choices that ask for wheel sizes, etc. With the GT, there's one setting and I have no idea what it assumes the range is. Does anybody know what wheel size they used for their data?

It seems to match my 21"s well.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

You can manually set the efficiency as well.