Choosing gravity GT vs DE

[hmp10]

. . . combined with how fast they updated the available DE configs based on customer feedback, that kind of external evidence would be consistent with them deciding to bring forward a future P drivetrain and call it a DE only recently.

So how would you explain Lucid's decision just a couple of months before Air Dream deliveries began to add Zenith Red to the color choices based on customer feedback? (I was one of the customers giving feedback about a too-limited color choice and also one of the people who slipped back in the delivery queue by making the switch.)

Did Lucid's response to that feedback mean the Dream Edition had not been in development long before? And what of Lucid's later adding the GTP to the lineup? By your thinking, the addition of the red color choice would have signaled the Dream was just a last-minute rebadging of something that was actually planned for later.

You're really stretching the bounds of logic to try to make a case for a proposition that both @borski and @hydbob have personal knowledge from inside Lucid was not the case.

 

[flarbear]

So how would you explain Lucid's decision just a couple of months before Air Dream deliveries began to add Zenith Red to the color choices based on customer feedback? (I was one of the customers giving feedback about a too-limited color choice and also one of the people who slipped back in the delivery queue by making the switch.)

Did Lucid's response to that feedback mean the Dream Edition had not been in development long before? And what of Lucid's later adding the GTP to the lineup? By your thinking, the addition of the red color choice would have signaled the Dream was just a last-minute rebadging of something that was actually planned for later.

You're really stretching the bounds of logic to try to make a case for a proposition that both @borski and @hydbob have personal knowledge from inside Lucid was not the case.

I'm not going to get into the logical fallacies of your leading questions. I will just make some statements of fact.

I fully believe that the DE drivetrain is well developed. I have believed that for a week or two.

I am not making a case that it was cobbled together. I don't believe that to be true.

Some people have presented personal knowledge of what is going on that I fully believe. Those statements are primarily why I have believed that DE will be well thought out.

One suggestion was that a small observation was some sort of proof of development and I was simply pointing out that that statement did not support the conclusion, even though I believed the conclusion.

I believe in making sure the arguments behind a conclusion are well vetted. I may point out fallacies in arguments, but that does not mean I believe the opposite.

 

[borski]

The fact that it exists now doesn't imbue those original sightings of the badges with any special power to predict how long the planning for the current DE hardware has been.

I agree. Luckily, I am not making any kind of argument about the original badge sightings.

I am telling you things I know for a fact are true.

 

[hmp10]

Of course a badge on a show car does not mean that show car has a Dream Edition powertrain. There were several Air "Dream Editions" on the display circuit before its entry into the marketplace that certainly didn't have the Dream powertrain. For instance, I sat in a Eureka Gold "Dream Edition" in the West Palm Beach showroom with the deep rear footwells of the small battery pack. I knew that car was not actually a Dream Edition. But what it did signify is that Lucid was going to produce the Air Dream Edition that was in the product plan.

What is missing from this discussion is any reasonable explanation for why Lucid would have premiered a badged representation of a Dream Edition at the highly-followed L.A. Auto Show and then paraded that badged model around with a Grand Touring for 16 months if there were no plans all along to have a Dream Edition in the lineup. What possible purpose could that have served other than to whet customer appetite for a car that Lucid was not sure would make it to production?

I'm no fan of Lucid marketing, but that would have been a colossally dumb move even for them.

 

[WeighingGravity]

fuck. i caved.

 

[PetevB]

fuck. i caved.

Lol

 

[DeaneG]

fuck. i caved.

Time to change that username to AnticipatingGravity?

 

[boydracing]

If the wife is good, I will jump that fence too!

 

[jace]

My sales guy told me that the Gravity DE will be delivered before the GT. But should not be by much time.

The reason I chose DE , I want access now

 

[jered]

Placed a GT order last Thursday and got a DE invitation today. The colors we want are included so it'd be an easy switch, but is the only real difference for $11k more the 200-some hp and some badging? That feels like a hard sell given that we do drive on mountain roads and are more interested in the smaller wheels/larger tires.

 

[jered]

Or is the idea that it's a performance limited edition at a modest upcharge, where there will be a future e.g. Sapphire model at a much higher premium?

 

[Wulf0123]

Or is the idea that it's a performance limited edition at a modest upcharge, where there will be a future e.g. Sapphire model at a much higher premium?

I believe it also comes with "all" the accessories. But they haven't announced what that is yet. I'm in the same boat, was looking at the smaller wheels for non-paved roads and road trips... but with that extra hp leaning to changing. I might end up getting the smaller wheels and upgrade later when more efficient wheels come out.

 

[CraZ8]

I'm still on the fence but probably leaning GT over DE at this point. We'll see if I find the stones to pull the trigger in the coming days.

In my heart of hearts, I know I don't need the extra HP. I'm not a good enough driver to push any car right up to its limits, and 860HP is already a monstrous amount of power. I'm a little suspicious of the way that the DE is making its extra power (in large part thank's to PetevB's very helpful post) anyways. While I know I will miss being able to do absolutely stupid (likely sub-3-second) 0-60 peelouts to show my friends, is the difference between that and 3.5 seconds really worth the $14,400 markup?

And since I wasn't going to choose the biggest wheels anyways (and wouldn't on DE either, but wouldn't get $ credit for it) the markup gets closer to $16-17K. Plus the tow package (granted at least I'm not walking away from "value" there) makes the premium even bigger. Maybe you can subtract out a little bit for the fact that some accessories will be thrown in - I'm guessing the frunk seating accessory will be a grand, and there may be some other goodies (I'm guessing a DE ballcap and coffee mug, lol).

I do want to be at the front of the line - really, really badly - so that's a big pull towards DE for me. But my rational brain just can't justify it.

If I do end up switching, it will be because my lizard brain wanted peelouts and to be first.

I do wish there was more clarity on exactly what is included in DE, all kinds of questions about delivery lead times, and some of the terms and conditions of DE. That might help give additional insight into the decision. But as is, I'm sort of holding firm on the GGT version for now.

I couldn’t have said it better. In the end I would rather have the extra range , the extra choices on the interior/ exterior color and a little more cash in my pocket even though I’ve speced out the GT with every option with the one exception going for the intermediate size on the wheels. I don’t think there will be much difference on the wait time like the Air ramp up as the factory will be going full bore anyway. Now if I can just get someone from sales to call me back since I decided to go from green to bronze and have switched to the intermediate size wheels. It’s a bit annoying leaving messages over the last several days and keep getting assurances when I do get a human on the phone “someone will get back to you “ so I can modify my order before production

 

[jered]

I believe it also comes with "all" the accessories. But they haven't announced what that is yet. I'm in the same boat, was looking at the smaller wheels for non-paved roads and road trips... but with that extra hp leaning to changing. I might end up getting the smaller wheels and upgrade later when more efficient wheels come out.

Unless there are going to be secret surprises, the email lists everything to expect: 1070 hp (vs 828 hp), all the options (which I was getting anyway, except the big wheels), bear decals, numbered sill plates, "tasteful badging", and "trim-specific 3D models" in the visualization. So, $11k over the fully-outfitted GT, adding 248 hp and stickers.

 

[WeighingGravity]

I think it's expected (though on what evidence I don't know) that the frunk seating cushion, which supposedly will be an additional-cost accessory for GT holders, will be thrown in for "free" on the DE. There may be other things like that: Cargo cover? Flat-bed-insert to cover 2nd row "gap" when seats are folded? An assortment of Bento boxes?

 

[Wulf0123]

Unless there are going to be secret surprises, the email lists everything to expect: 1070 hp (vs 828 hp), all the options (which I was getting anyway, except the big wheels), bear decals, numbered sill plates, "tasteful badging", and "trim-specific 3D models" in the visualization. So, $11k over the fully-outfitted GT, adding 248 hp and stickers.

From my email they call out premium accessories. Like WeighingGravity I think there's basically a 100% chance the frunk seat is definitely included, i would hope the bento boxes, but other than that it could mean more or less. Probably doesn't justify the costs, but wanted to make sure you weigh in everything. But honestly, the cost is because it's limited with or without the horsepower.

 

[borski]

For me, the HP is likely worth it because I like to drive with gusto, and because I can tell the different between my DE and GT loaners I've had.

It is completely reasonable that for most people it will not move the needle; that is also why it isn't a widely-publicized trim.

 

[hmp10]

From my email they call out premium accessories. Like WeighingGravity I think there's basically a 100% chance the frunk seat is definitely included, i would hope the bento boxes, but other than that it could mean more or less. Probably doesn't justify the costs, but wanted to make sure you weigh in everything. But honestly, the cost is because it's limited with or without the horsepower.

I actually think the Dream upgrade is a relative bargain compared to other brands that offer performance versions above their next most powerful EV trim level.

The Gravity Dream is $139,900. A Gravity Grand Touring with the same options is $125,500. Net difference: $14,400

A base Tesla Model X All-Wheel Drive is $84,990. A base Tesla Model X Plaid is 99,900. Net difference: $15,000

A base Mercedes EQS 580 Sedan is $128,200. A base AMG EQS Sedan is $147,550. Net difference: $19,350

A base BMW i7 xDrive 60 is $124,200. A base BMW i7 M70 is $168,500. Net difference: $44,300

For me, the HP is likely worth it because I like to drive with gusto, and because I can tell the different between my DE and GT loaners I've had.

Ditto.

 

[Neurio]

I actually think the Dream upgrade is a relative bargain compared to other brands that offer performance versions above their next most powerful EV trim level.

The Gravity Dream is $139,900. A Gravity Grand Touring with the same options is $125,500. Net difference: $14,400

A base Tesla Model X All-Wheel Drive is $84,990. A base Tesla Model X Plaid is 99,900. Net difference: $15,000

A base Mercedes EQS 580 Sedan is $128,200. A base AMG EQS Sedan is $147,550. Net difference: $19,350

A base BMW i7 xDrive 60 is $124,200. A base BMW i7 M70 is $168,500. Net difference: $44,300




Ditto.

Those numbers are not quite apples to apples. If you're comparing base to base, the GGT starts at $94,900, so there's a $45k difference between it and the GDE. You'd need to compare fully optioned models to get the $14,400 you're giving.

 

[hmp10]

Those numbers are not quite apples to apples. If you're comparing base to base, the GGT starts at $94,900, so there's a $45k difference between it and the GDE. You'd need to compare fully optioned models to get the $14,400 you're giving.

No, it isn't.

There is no "base" version of the Gravity Dream, as it comes only fully-optioned (except for seating capacity and wheel sizes, which do not change pricing). So, to find out how much more you're paying just for the performance enhancements of the Dream, the proper comparison is to option up the Grand Touring to match the non-performance features of the Dream.

The situation is different with BMW and MB, as their performance versions, unlike the Gravity Dream, are not fully-optioned and have extensive add-on features available, some of which are different from the base cars. So that is why I compared a base non-performance model to a base performance model of the BMW and MB.

It's not a perfect comparison unless you go through the extensive options lists item-by-item on the German cars, and I'll leave that to someone else. But the general point still holds: Lucid is not charging an exorbitant premium for almost 30% more power . . . and less than competing brands.