Charging at NACS Superchargers

[HC_79]

Tesla has finally announced the TRUE V4 cabinet -

Supercharging has come a long way — our first opening in 2012 started with charging speeds of just 90kW.
Since then, our engineering teams have continuously been upgrading our Supercharger equipment.
In 2023, we launched our V4 Post, which made improvements to the charging experience for all EVs.

Today, we're announcing the V4 Cabinet — capable of delivering up to 500kW for cars and 1.2MW for Semi.

• Faster charging: Supports 400V-1000V vehicle architectures, including 30% faster charging for Cybertruck. S3XY vehicles enjoy 250kW charge rates they already experience on V3 Cabinet — charging up to 200 miles in 15 minutes.
• Faster deployments: V4 Cabinet powers 8 posts, 2X the stalls per cabinet. Lower footprint and complexity = more sites coming online faster.
• Next-generation hardware: Cutting-edge power electronics designed to be the most reliable on the planet, with 3X power density enabling higher throughput with lower costs.

Our first sites with V4 Cabinets are going into permitting now. First openings in 2025.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1857133221538148638

 

[hydbob]

To counter your point Usb-C today still works with usb 1.0 from the first usb that was ever made. Having backwards compatibility isnt holding anyone back.

It does work... slower just like USB 1.0 is slower.

 

[Science]

The adapters you can buy that have a NACS on one side and a CCS plug for the Lucid are ONLY for level 2 chargers. I have one and use it with my Tesla home charger. You can find the superchargers that support CCS on your Lucid here: https://www.plugshare.com/location/466734 As others have said, Lucid only supports a maximum of 50kw charging speed due to the need to upscale the voltage.

Thanks PAR...I would really like to use that website. But, I read the fine print (I know...nobody reads the fine print in the Terms and Conditions but I do). Here's an excerpt: "You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Company... your violation of any third-party right...." I think this means that if someone has a patent/trademark or copyright on anything whatsoever connected to the site, they can sue PlugShare (or you) and you have to pay PlugShare's legal fees. I know....sounds far-fetched. I prefer not to take on any such liability. If it could never happen, PlugShare should not ask you to indemnify them. No, I am not a lawyer.

 

[Science]

The only native NACS port for Lucid is Gravity, which will be released by the end of the year.



That will only happen when Tesla allows the Lucid fleet to access its Superchargers. Right now, they only allow 5 car brands but not Lucid.

Those 5 car brands didn't provide the adapter (free or fee) until they got fleet access. The same should be for Lucid.


See above

Tesla needs to grant you access first. You can use adapters from above 5 car brands but they won't charge your Lucid because Tesla has not granted access.


Yes. But remember you can have an adapter but do you have access?

Planning one when access is granted by Tesla. Adapters exist on the market but are useless without a permission for access.

Some are made by Tesla and handed to Ford. Ford did a recall and used Lectron to manufacture their own with the "Ford" label on.

I hope you are clear now.

Yes Tam. Clear now! Thanks.

 

[joec]

Tesla has finally announced the TRUE V4 cabinet -

Supercharging has come a long way — our first opening in 2012 started with charging speeds of just 90kW.
Since then, our engineering teams have continuously been upgrading our Supercharger equipment.
In 2023, we launched our V4 Post, which made improvements to the charging experience for all EVs.

Today, we're announcing the V4 Cabinet — capable of delivering up to 500kW for cars and 1.2MW for Semi.

• Faster charging: Supports 400V-1000V vehicle architectures, including 30% faster charging for Cybertruck. S3XY vehicles enjoy 250kW charge rates they already experience on V3 Cabinet — charging up to 200 miles in 15 minutes.
• Faster deployments: V4 Cabinet powers 8 posts, 2X the stalls per cabinet. Lower footprint and complexity = more sites coming online faster.
• Next-generation hardware: Cutting-edge power electronics designed to be the most reliable on the planet, with 3X power density enabling higher throughput with lower costs.

Our first sites with V4 Cabinets are going into permitting now. First openings in 2025.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1857133221538148638

Nice. This will take a while to spread around the country, but it's most definitely welcome news.

 

[HC_79]

Nice. This will take a while to spread around the country, but it's most definitely welcome news.

Agreed. Probably safe to say the V4 stalls that are out in the wild now are probably the first to jump on the bandwagon in 2025. We'll just need to see how quickly future V4 sites come online.

 

[DeaneG]

Tesla has finally announced the TRUE V4 cabinet -

Supercharging has come a long way — our first opening in 2012 started with charging speeds of just 90kW.
Since then, our engineering teams have continuously been upgrading our Supercharger equipment.
In 2023, we launched our V4 Post, which made improvements to the charging experience for all EVs.

Today, we're announcing the V4 Cabinet — capable of delivering up to 500kW for cars and 1.2MW for Semi...

When I read your post, I had to mentally check that it wasn't April 1st!

 

[CWedge411]

It does work... slower just like USB 1.0 is slower.

A better anology is saying your USB-C cable either transfers at high speed or usb 1.0 speed. Make no mistake 50kw is the slowest in the industry today.. We are talking Nissan Leaf speed, i'd say Chademo is more usb 1.0 speed. 100-150kw like Porsche and kia are like usb 2.0 speeds

 

[DeaneG]

A decent writeup about the present situation for non-NACS vehicle charging and the how and why of adapters:

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/21/nx-s1-5199958/tech-tesla-ev-adaptor-supercharger

 

[DennisIS]

To counter your point Usb-C today still works with usb 1.0 from the first usb that was ever made. Having backwards compatibility isnt holding anyone back.

To counter your counter:

• There are literally billions of PCs that have USB-A/1.
• External USB connections are used/needed by tens of billions of devices for connectivity and/or charging.
• Technically, USB is still USB. Almost zero active componentry needed to be "backward compatible."
• USB is and was very intentionally always an open standard.
• There is a clear business imperative and almost zero engineering brilliance needed to support/connect/interconnect with/amongst any flavor of USB.

In contrast:

• Tesla's charging interface is intentionally a closed proprietary interface.
• Their charging network is proprietary by design/as an element of their business model.
• It was built to mate to Tesla's battery and onboard charging designs.
• The engineering and safety challenges to "adapt" to multiple charging specs that can deliver giant amounts of power is entirely another animal.
• Everything in the EV world is evolving.

YES: We/customers really want the ability to use any EV charger they see/find. Market pressure and help from regulators has helped to get to NACS.
Fingers crossed that being way too rich, entitled, and empowered doesn't kill NACS.

 

[borski]

To counter your point Usb-C today still works with usb 1.0 from the first usb that was ever made. Having backwards compatibility isnt holding anyone back.

It's super convenient and definitely doesn't have any compatibility issues at all: https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/

https://archive.is/i3l7C

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt of some version. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into a pin-count-constrained port (so they can't even all fit in, and trade-offs need to be made) without any way for the user to tell nor select which features should be enabled on which port.

A 12-inch MacBook for example has a USB-C port just like the MacBook Air and Pro, and yet if you plug in a Thunderbolt Display it won't work on the 12-inch one but will on the Air and Pro. As a user there is no easy way for you to tell the 12-inch Macbook's USB-C port is different than the Air/Pro unless you explicitly search for it in the tech specs (which is counter-intuitive as the whole point of USB-C is to be universal so in an ideal world you wouldn't/shouldn't even think about searching that).

So no, it isn't 'backwards compatible' in the same way you think; sure, it's compatible with USB1, but at what speed? And is it USB4 or USB3.1 or USB3.2? And given that its supposed to be universal for HDMI and Thunderbolt, but it isn't always, is that 'backwards compatible'?

And yet, it is still better than having a VGA port on my machine.

 

[CWedge411]

I know a little about IT...heard of wayfair.com? I helped build their data center, I've been in IT for 30+ years. Without getting into protocols and IEEE specs, what I said was correct for the laymens.

 

[borski]

I know a little about IT...heard of wayfair.com? I helped build their data center, I've been in IT for 30+ years. Without getting into protocols and IEEE specs, what I said was correct for the laymens.

Cool! I'm not challenging your knowledge; I was making a point.

Backwards compatibility is a farce; USB-C is not necessarily 'backwards compatible' with most of the protocols it tries to replace, and for those it is backwards compatible with, it makes compromises; namely, speed and features.

That's precisely what Lucid has done with being "backwards compatible" with 400v charging stations; it works, and it works fine. It just works slower, because it is the past.

USB-1, with an adapter, works on USB-C. Slower, because it is the past.

 

[CWedge411]

Cool! I'm not challenging your knowledge; I was making a point.

Backwards compatibility is a farce; USB-C is not necessarily 'backwards compatible' with most of the protocols it tries to replace, and for those it is backwards compatible with, it makes compromises; namely, speed and features.

That's precisely what Lucid has done with being "backwards compatible" with 400v charging stations; it works, and it works fine. It just works slower, because it is the past.

USB-1, with an adapter, works on USB-C. Slower, because it is the past.

Ok now if you want to get into the weeds, all Lucid has to do is the same as Hyundai and Porsche...are you saying Porsche is being held back? Funny I saw it obliterate the Lucid in the I-90 challenge and that will charge at 150kw on a tesla charger with it's "legacy 400v booster" that's real life, Lucid has no excuses.

 

[CWedge411]

Ok now if you want to get into the weeds, all Lucid has to do is the same as Hyundai and Porsche...are you saying Porsche is being held back? Funny I saw it obliterate the Lucid in the I-90 challenge and that will charge at 150kw on a tesla charger with it's "legacy 400v booster" that's real life, Lucid has no excuses.

But back to the USB analogy, When you plug in a USB-C device into a USB 1 or 2.0 port as you said, it runs slower....True, BUT it MAXES out the USB 1.0 or 2.0 Bus, the device being like the car, pulls as much data as it can from the port (charger)because it can handle data faster.
This should mean Lucid should max out the Tesla charger by your own logic.

 

[Bobby]

But back to the USB analogy, When you plug in a USB-C device into a USB 1 or 2.0 port as you said, it runs slower....True, BUT it MAXES out the USB 1.0 or 2.0 Bus, the device being like the car, pulls as much data as it can from the port (charger)because it can handle data faster.
This should mean Lucid should max out the Tesla charger by your own logic.

Here’s a thing: it doesn’t. If fast level 3 charging at Tesla superchargers is important to you, the Lucid Air in its current form is not for you. Simple as that. Either a future model will have higher charging levels at the current cabinets or Tesla will upgrade them. Absent either of those, arguing here on the forum changes nothing.

 

[CWedge411]

Here’s a thing: it doesn’t. If fast level 3 charging at Tesla superchargers is important to you, the Lucid Air in its current form is not for you. Simple as that. Either a future model will have higher charging levels at the current cabinets or Tesla will upgrade them. Absent either of those, arguing here on the form changes nothing.

No one at Lucid tells you this, that's another issue altogether.

 

[joec]

It's super convenient and definitely doesn't have any compatibility issues at all: https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-video-through-usb-c-hub/

https://archive.is/i3l7C

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt of some version. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into a pin-count-constrained port (so they can't even all fit in, and trade-offs need to be made) without any way for the user to tell nor select which features should be enabled on which port.

A 12-inch MacBook for example has a USB-C port just like the MacBook Air and Pro, and yet if you plug in a Thunderbolt Display it won't work on the 12-inch one but will on the Air and Pro. As a user there is no easy way for you to tell the 12-inch Macbook's USB-C port is different than the Air/Pro unless you explicitly search for it in the tech specs (which is counter-intuitive as the whole point of USB-C is to be universal so in an ideal world you wouldn't/shouldn't even think about searching that).

So no, it isn't 'backwards compatible' in the same way you think; sure, it's compatible with USB1, but at what speed? And is it USB4 or USB3.1 or USB3.2? And given that its supposed to be universal for HDMI and Thunderbolt, but it isn't always, is that 'backwards compatible'?

And yet, it is still better than having a VGA port on my machine.

You didn't even mention the cables, which are often not labeled, and most definitely are not all the same in functionality, despite having the same connectors. Some can only transmit power. Some can only do slower USB speeds. Some do Thunderbolt speed.

It kills me when people complain that Apple's Thunderbolt cables are so expensive compared to some USB cable they find on Amazon. Yeah, of course. There's a micro computer inside the Thunderbolt cable.

 

[Rutrow]

[pokes my head in the door to find everyone talking about USB cables]

"Excuse me... does anyone know which room I can find the NACS charging discussion?!?"

 

[borski]

[pokes my head in the door to find everyone talking about USB cables]

"Excuse me... does anyone know which room I can find the NACS charging discussion?!?"

What does that have to do with USB-C cables?