Car will not update. Lucid says needs new telematics module not covered by warranty. Is this normal?

[Tâm]

I meant a solution for cars that didn't update on time.

It's a company's choice: Some prefer forced updates, while others prefer personal responsibilities (owners may face consequences for failure in individual responsibilities).

I still think it's ridiculous to require to replace TCU if the hardware is working otherwise just doesn't see the OTA because of the location move. Either connect service laptop and charge 1 hour setup time to update software manually or if that is not possible and hardware needs to be replaced then it should be covered under warranty.

Just like forced updates or not, and here to replace TCU or not, I think the technology offers both, but it's a matter of the company's choice.

As mentioned in Post #146, yes, there's technology to flash your TCU without replacing the whole hardware, but it's the company's decision.

 

[borski]

Lucid isn’t unreasonable at all wanting the cars updated. But where Tesla differs is they’re clear on the screen when updates are available. The Lucid at issue said it was up to date despite being way behind.

Fair point. That bug is a big issue, imho, even though I know ostensibly why it occurred.

There are three issues in this thread:
1) @rking0122 has the issue of being *so* far behind that there were years without updates. That is unique to him.

2) If you didn’t update to 2.1.43 in time, you’ll need to have it done at a service center. They do not charge for this, provided you are not *years* out of date; that is, if you were anywhere near 2.1.43 you’d be fine.

I’d ask that we *please* stop conflating the prior two points. They are not the same, and it is confusing people.

3) The warranty states that it is void if you don’t update within 30 days; Tesla doesn’t have a time limit but says the same. This is *also* not the issue at hand here, but because it was brought up that that sounded ludicrous, I wanted to clarify that another manufacturer (and many more) act similarly in their terms.

My last post was only related to #3

 

[suchluke]

Fair point. That bug is a big issue, imho, even though I know ostensibly why it occurred.

There are three issues in this thread:
1) @rking0122 has the issue of being *so* far behind that there were years without updates. That is unique to him.

2) If you didn’t update to 2.1.43 in time, you’ll need to have it done at a service center. They do not charge for this, provided you are not *years* out of date; that is, if you were anywhere near 2.1.43 you’d be fine.

I’d ask that we *please* stop conflating the prior two points. They are not the same, and it is confusing people.

3) The warranty states that it is void if you don’t update within 30 days; Tesla doesn’t have a time limit but says the same. This is *also* not the issue at hand here, but because it was brought up that that sounded ludicrous, I wanted to clarify that another manufacturer (and many more) act similarly in their terms.

My last post was only related to #3

1) As a second owner he didn't do it consciously. I understand if he was the first owner and deliberately ignored update notifications. The car even displayed that it is up to date.
2) Is this confirmed by official Lucid sources? My understanding was that if someone didn't update to 2.1.43, regardless of what version they are currently at, it will require TCU replacement. It would be nice to know what is the minimum version car needs to be at in order to manually update at the service center.
3) In my opinion 30 days is little excessive. I think 90 days would be more reasonable. There could be valid reason that someone could not perform the update within 30 days. For example extended vacation away without access to the car and without remote connection through phone. In that case should I delegate someone to keep checking the car at least once every 30 days when I am away? Long term AWS storage is cheap and company could easily save and store older images unless each image is unique to each individual VIN then I understand the requirement of purging older versions to maintain the cost.

 

[Tâm]

2) Is this confirmed by official Lucid sources? My understanding was that if someone didn't update to 2.1.43, regardless of what version they are currently at, it will require TCU replacement.

No. That is not what the release note says. It says "will require you to bring your vehicle to a Lucid Service Center to restore OTA compatibility."

If you missed the timeline, then the only requirement mentioned is to bring it in. It doesn't say hardware replacement.

I understand from post #146 that a requirement of hardware replacement when there's a technology to flash it: "every expert in the field would call this a "design defect""

R

Post in thread 'Car will not update. Lucid says needs new telematics module not covered by warranty. Is this normal?'

Nov 3, 2024

Beyond "I belive", any substitution following?

Well, would it help if probably a significant number of us opining are actually experts in the field, have been developing hardware/software interactions, firmware, and electronic components for 20+ years?

Based on fairly extensive experience, "I am pretty certain" - if it isn't the case, I'm pretty sure every expert in the field would call this a "design defect".

Now, as mentioned - there could be more to the story - if the module was actually damaged somehow by a previous owner, then OK. And there are ways that could happen if the...

• rfc805

• 
• 

 

[borski]

1) As a second owner he didn't do it consciously. I understand if he was the first owner and deliberately ignored update notifications. The car even displayed that it is up to date.

I do not think @rking0122 did anything wrong at all. When I refer to 'the owner,' I have been referring to the original owner the entire time. The only thing @rking0122 could have done "better" would have been to confirm and ensure that the vehicle was updated to the most recent software before buying the vehicle, but the UI did not show him he was out of date, and thus it would be very hard to argue that he 'should have known better'.

However, the original owner should have known better, and I have absolutely no idea what transpired between Lucid and that owner.

Unfortunately for @rking0122, he has inherited whatever the situation was between those two parties, and it appears to have been an unusual one, at the very least. That is not his fault, but that is the situation. The original owner did not follow through on their obligations, as defined in the warranty, to keep the car up to date, or to take it to service (for any reason, mind you, including the annual maintenance), because if either of those things had happened, the car would be up to date, as that is something the service center does every time they see the car, if there is an update to be installed.

So yeah, this sucks for @rking0122. He did nothing wrong. It isn't his fault as he did not ignore the update, and inherited this situation by buying a used car from a private party, which you buy as-is. If he had bought it from a dealership, for example, he could potentially go after the dealership for not following through on their obligations to fulfill the warranty and make them pay the $1400, potentially, as dealerships have additional liability and consumers have additional legal protections. But if you buy from a private owner, you're on your own.

I never said @rking0122 did anything wrong.

2) Is this confirmed by official Lucid sources? My understanding was that if someone didn't update to 2.1.43, regardless of what version they are currently at, it will require TCU replacement. It would be nice to know what is the minimum version car needs to be at in order to manually update at the service center.

It was in the release notes. I don't know if it requires TCU replacement or they can flash it, but it doesn't really matter; in order to get on 2.1.43 if you missed it, service has to do it, whether that is flashing the firmware or replacing the TCU. Replacing the TCU is a quick job (it's not hard to access), and so sometimes it is literally faster to simply swap it and get the car out the door, then flash the old unit later and reuse it.

I have no idea if that's true, but if it is, I would make the same choice - replace it with a current one (because it is easy to access), deliver it back to the customer, then take the hours to update the old TCU.

Of course, that only makes sense if you aren't charging for it anyway, which they aren't doing for people who simply missed 2.1.43.

Something else happened here.

3) In my opinion 30 days is little excessive. I think 90 days would be more reasonable. There could be valid reason that someone could not perform the update within 30 days. For example extended vacation away without access to the car and without remote connection through phone. In that case should I delegate someone to keep checking the car at least once every 30 days when I am away? Long term AWS storage is cheap and company could easily save and store older images unless each image is unique to each individual VIN then I understand the requirement of purging older versions to maintain the cost.

OK, but it doesn't really matter. Again, the number of days is irrelevant in every sense except If Lucid tries to enforce it. Lucid would be cutting off their nose to spite their face if they enforced this simply just to enforce it. It is just a CYA. It could be 24 hours (though that would be unreasonable), and it wouldn't make one iota of difference unless Lucid ever enforced it.

Also, it isn't about saving storage; I'm certain of that. It's just about ensuring that you don't have many cars out there with different versions, and thus different bugs, and if you have to change something server-side, you don't want outdated versions out there that may be incompatible now (like if a TLS cipher gets broken, for example), etc.

It's just a CYA clause. That's it.

 

[rking0122]

It was in the release notes. I don't know if it requires TCU replacement or they can flash it, but it doesn't really matter; in order to get on 2.1.43 if you missed it, service has to do it, whether that is flashing the firmware or replacing the TCU. Replacing the TCU is a quick job (it's not hard to access), and so sometimes it is literally faster to simply swap it and get the car out the door, then flash the old unit later and reuse it.

I have no idea if that's true, but if it is, I would make the same choice - replace it with a current one (because it is easy to access), deliver it back to the customer, then take the hours to update the old TCU.

I'm not certain how easy this thing is to replace, it shows $594.87 for the module and $700.00 in labor to install it. I don't know what their hourly labor rate is, but seems to me I am looking at a charge for more than 3 hours of labor assuming it is $2xx an hour.

 

[linnea1]

My touring has been in a body shop for 2+ months after I punched a hole under the front bumper on a tall driveway edge-hoping I don’t have any issues with an update-the last huge one isn’t installed yet… the vehicle is still in service mode…

 

[Tâm]

My touring has been in a body shop for 2+ months after I punched a hole under the front bumper on a tall driveway edge-hoping I don’t have any issues with an update-the last huge one isn’t installed yet… the vehicle is still in service mode…

Yours should be fine because the doomsday was around December 2023 when version 2.1.43 came out.

So far, that's the only incidence of lateness that could come with a price.

 

[suchluke]

I'm not certain how easy this thing is to replace, it shows $594.87 for the module and $700.00 in labor to install it. I don't know what their hourly labor rate is, but seems to me I am looking at a charge for more than 3 hours of labor assuming it is $2xx an hour.

This right there concerns me the most. $700 labor for something that is supposed to be easily accessible and quick to replace? I am afraid to ask what the cost would be for something that is not easy accessible that would need to be replaced? I am already starting to consider if I should keep the car past the warranty period.

 

[Rogue]

I'm not certain how easy this thing is to replace, it shows $594.87 for the module and $700.00 in labor to install it. I don't know what their hourly labor rate is, but seems to me I am looking at a charge for more than 3 hours of labor assuming it is $2xx an hour.

If the rates are the same across the country for the most part, that sounds like ~4.5 hours at $150 an hour.

 

[borski]

This right there concerns me the most. $700 labor for something that is supposed to be easily accessible and quick to replace? I am afraid to ask what the cost would be for something that is not easy accessible that would need to be replaced? I am already starting to consider if I should keep the car past the warranty period.

Can you share the invoice? If you Google around a bit, there have been some leaked documents showing where the TCU is. It’s not hard to *access* (for example, to reboot it, but please have service do this and don’t do it yourself!) but it would be more difficult to access for *replacement*.

 

[Haggy]

That is explicit. And I do remember there was an update that stated you have to install this or you will not be able to update in the future. But there really should be an exception for a car that is purchased secondhand, because the owner had no chance to update the car.

From the Lucid warranty:

1. What Will Cause the Warranty to Be Voided?
   The Lucid New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided, and no warranty coverage will be provided in the following situations:
   ● Failing to properly operate your vehicle in accordance with the specific instructions and recommendation regarding the use and operation of your vehicle as provided in the Owner’s Manual.

New Vehicle Limited Warranty - Version 2022.25 9

● Failing to install required software updates within 30 days after notification that an update is available.

Lucid can have that clause in a warranty, but they'd have a hard time making a case in court. There's lots of precedent allowing that sort of thing to be enforced if it's what led to a failure. A company can deny replacing an engine if a person never changed the oil and the engine was damaged as a result. A company can't deny changing a transmission that failed in normal use because the person didn't replace wiper blades or rotate tires on schedule. The customer's lack of action has to be related. Likewise, if the lack of a software update could not have caused it, the company can't use it as an excuse.

If this is a hardware failure, and the hardware failure was not caused by any action on the part of the owner that could be considered negligent, then Lucid won't have much of a case.

Lucid did have an update that they said was necessary for cars to get updates in the future but there's no technological reason why they can't push that specific update to a car now if that car never got subsequent updates.

 

[rking0122]

Can you share the invoice? If you Google around a bit, there have been some leaked documents showing where the TCU is. It’s not hard to *access* (for example, to reboot it, but please have service do this and don’t do it yourself!) but it would be more difficult to access for *replacement*.

 

[rking0122]

Can you share the invoice? If you Google around a bit, there have been some leaked documents showing where the TCU is. It’s not hard to *access* (for example, to reboot it, but please have service do this and don’t do it yourself!) but it would be more difficult to access for *replacement*.

I cut and paste the two parts of the invoice on this issue. There are a few other things they're doing but I didn't want to clog up this post with all of it. If there is something else helpful, I will send, just let me know what. And no, there is no way I am attempting the TCU.

One of the extra things I asked them for was for them to produce a couple of keycards for me (I didn't get cards from the seller, just fobs). It is like $150 for these. I said yes because I know some folks have issues with fobs and mobile entry and I thought I'd carry the cards around with me as a backup. Worth it?

I also have the original style license plate bracket that is indeed stripped out, I understand there's a new and improved one? On my drive home I lost the paper plate somewhere because the screws just fell out. If I get an identical bracket from them as the original, I'd prefer to just skip it. I already modified the one I had to hold the plate.

I ask about these items because I gave the green light to fix the TCU on Thursday last week. Was originally told my car might have to go into Saturday 11/2 before it was completed, but Friday 11/1 was the target. Then it was middle of this week. Then it was end of this week. And now I got a message this morning it may well go into the following week. If I can get my car back sooner I would just scrap all the extra items, IF those are the couple of things delaying this. My app shows "Software Version 0.0.1" so I am guessing they haven't done any physical swap yet. If they did, and could simply get my car to the point where I could update it myself OTA, I'd gladly just do that to be done with this.

I know this post is officially off topic with some of the questions, but I do appreciate thoughts if any.

 

[segbrk]

I said yes because I know some folks have issues with fobs and mobile entry and I thought I'd carry the cards around with me as a backup. Worth it?

The fob has a built in backup that works the same as the card. Hold it against the A pillar to unlock, even if the fob battery is dead. The card is just useful because it fits in your wallet in case you forget your fob/phone.

 

[emoylv]

I have actually done an update to my Lucid in Illinois while I was in Hawai'i with my Lucid App. I don't believe there is a setting for automatic updates. Every time I've seen an update available, I have to tell it to do the update. I'm guessing it is because while an update is running, the car cannot be operated and it gives you 2 minutes to get out of the car if you set it to run from the car otherwise you will get locked in (I remember seeing some woman stuck in her Tesla during an update story a while back btw).

Anyway, I don't think Lucid offers any 'automatic' update feature at this point. Unless there is a connection issue, I don't see why or how there would be an issue remotely updating just like I have for an update. I remember being in Hawai'i and being 'warned' that that particular update will take 90 minutes... I LOLed thinking, okay, I'm enjoying a sunrise hike while my car is updating in the garage 4200+ miles away.

Ditto. I did the BIG update (2hrs 10 mins) from Tucson while my Touring was in my garage in Las Vegas. Zero problems. Thanks for all the info on this forum, and I'm making sure I keep up to date on all the updates.

 

[Tâm]

I cut and paste the two parts of the invoice on this issue. There are a few other things they're doing but I didn't want to clog up this post with all of it. If there is something else helpful, I will send, just let me know what. And no, there is no way I am attempting the TCU.

One of the extra things I asked them for was for them to produce a couple of keycards for me (I didn't get cards from the seller, just fobs). It is like $150 for these. I said yes because I know some folks have issues with fobs and mobile entry and I thought I'd carry the cards around with me as a backup. Worth it?

I also have the original style license plate bracket that is indeed stripped out, I understand there's a new and improved one? On my drive home I lost the paper plate somewhere because the screws just fell out. If I get an identical bracket from them as the original, I'd prefer to just skip it. I already modified the one I had to hold the plate.

I ask about these items because I gave the green light to fix the TCU on Thursday last week. Was originally told my car might have to go into Saturday 11/2 before it was completed, but Friday 11/1 was the target. Then it was middle of this week. Then it was end of this week. And now I got a message this morning it may well go into the following week. If I can get my car back sooner I would just scrap all the extra items, IF those are the couple of things delaying this. My app shows "Software Version 0.0.1" so I am guessing they haven't done any physical swap yet. If they did, and could simply get my car to the point where I could update it myself OTA, I'd gladly just do that to be done with this.

I know this post is officially off topic with some of the questions, but I do appreciate thoughts if any.

1.Maybe I am confused but usually a diagnostic fee is waived if there's indeed an issue.

If there's no issues then the diagnostic fee is charged to discourage wasting the tech time for no reasons.

2. Too expensive for the cards but I would feel better to have them as a backup.

3. If you can fix your license frame then I would not bother get a new one.

3. "Software Version 0.0.1" might indicate that you now got a hardware replacement with a blank basic firmware that is bare bone like a blank sheet of paper with some lines ready to be written on or flashed.

 

[rking0122]

1.Maybe I am confused but usually a diagnostic fee is waived if there's indeed an issue.

If there's no issues then the diagnostic fee is charged to discourage wasting the tech time for no reasons.

2. Too expensive for the cards but I would feel better to have them as a backup.

3. If you can fix your license frame then I would not bother get a new one.

3. "Software Version 0.0.1" might indicate that you now got a hardware replacement with a blank basic firmware that is bare bone like a blank sheet of paper with some lines ready to be written on or flashed.

I do not know what they are diagnosing or what it is for. The car went in with everyone knowing status of the TCU. And the car on the app has always showed 0.0.1. I really didn't know if that was an app version, or reflective of what the car was on, I just assume the latter.

When cars are in service at Lucid does the app go into "service mode" like Tesla? For the entire last week I seem to be able to access the car like normal (doesn't show any kind of service mode, but, I also don't know if that exists at Lucid).

 

[Tâm]

I do not know what they are diagnosing or what it is for. The car went in with everyone knowing status of the TCU. And the car on the app has always showed 0.0.1. I really didn't know if that was an app version, or reflective of what the car was on, I just assume the latter.

When cars are in service at Lucid does the app go into "service mode" like Tesla? For the entire last week I seem to be able to access the car like normal (doesn't show any kind of service mode, but, I also don't know if that exists at Lucid).

I didn't know your app says "Software Version 0.0.1" so there's no change. Please disregard what I said about the blank sheet of paper. We have to ask Lucid to know the progress of physical hardware replacement.

When I brought my car in for the cosmetic trim fix, I could see from the app that it moved from the parking lot into the building and back out. So, I don't think there's a service mode in the app.

It sounds like it's still waiting for the arrival of the hardware. If it's been replaced, you should see your car was installing various firmware versions from your app.

 

[Htx lucid]

8 months is a long time. If you don't mind, would you please clarify how it was fixed (should be on the receipt)? Was the module replaced or there's no mention of "replace," just the word "flash"?

I checked my email but I don’t have the invoice saved. I’ll ask them to email me next time I take it for service for cabin air filter. But I found this where they tried to charge me $107 for safety inspection in Texas. Unreal.