Camera lag/delay

I've had this happen a few times after the last update. Almost had a heart attack the first time because I was trying to reverse into my garage but something felt off and stopped the car only to realize the cameras had some latency. Ever since then I'm always checking if there's any latency in the cameras before parking.
 
I have had two instances of laggy camera and failure of the sensors to stop my car from touching or hitting objects when it is dark.. My car is hypersensitive to obstructions or objects in broad daylight but I have backed into items twice at night. I have dealt with bumper damage... I am not blaming the car for my carelessness, but during daylight the car will slam on the brakes if I am about to hit a bush or tree limb.. At night I do not get the same level of protection... The sensors should work in all instances.
 
The camera lag has been discussed before and it seems to be something that has occured after certain software updates. I continue to experience lag. The gravity we rode in at the launch event had noticable frame rate issues.

I assume it's something lucid is aware of since regulators have focused on issues with other manufacturers. While they may put in disclaimers, if the car has an increased risk of crashes it will be scrutinized.




 
I've had this happen a few times after the last update. Almost had a heart attack the first time because I was trying to reverse into my garage but something felt off and stopped the car only to realize the cameras had some latency. Ever since then I'm always checking if there's any latency in the cameras before parking.
Well, I'd like to get some clarity on the terminologies in this "camera-lag" conversation:

> there is a noticeable lag in the "CAMERA IMAGE AS THEY APPEAR ON THE DASH", correct?
> such lag is true for both the backup and the sideview (blind-spot) cameras, correct?
> I don't know what cameras are used in Lucid's sideview or backup cameras. I'd suspect they are CMOS cameras.

I don't think the intrinsic image lags in CMOS cameras are in the orders of hundred (or hundreds) of milli-seconds. Is there any disagreement?

If the above statements are correct, that might suggest there is a "computer lag" in rendering these images on the screens, correct?

So, is this:
> a camera delay problem?
> a hardware (e.g., speed of processing by the car's computer) problem?
> or a Software problem?

Like to hear your opinions.
 
I'm not adding anything valuable to this conversation, but just adding myself to the list of people who experience lag in the rear camera. Since update 2.6.11, my turn signal cameras have not worked twice. Resetting the car worked. Prior to 2.6.11, my turn signal cameras never failed to work. I can't say for certain, but I think the rear camera lag has been more frequent/noticeable with this latest update. I have a '22 Air.
 
So, is this:
> a camera delay problem?
> a hardware (e.g., speed of processing by the car's computer) problem?
> or a Software problem?

Like to hear your opinions.
As a (former) software engineer, I suspect that there isn't straightforward answer to this, even from people on the Lucid software team. These are complex systems with many interacting components that work differently when tested in isolation or as part of the overall system. At its lowest level, video cameras produce frames of pixels as a consistent rate. The Air contains a distributed system with dozens of separate computers that talk to each other over a local network. So the camera has to get the video data to the system that runs the infotainment, that system has to process it, then get it up on the screen. Slowdowns could happen at any (or multiple) points in that process.

One solution that is sometimes suggested because it is easy to understand is to replace the main computer with a faster one. This often shows improvement, but might just be hiding the symptoms rather than solving them. It could be that the underlying problem is the car's network getting overloaded--maybe six cameras all sending video streams while some other computer modules are booting up and requesting firmware is too much at once. Maybe there's some event that the system designers thought would be a rare occurrence, but turns out to now happen every time the car turns on, so needs to be handled better. Hopefully Lucid has clever people working on this, and there is not a fundamental flaw in the system design that can't be solved with some programming.
 
i have noticed similar camera lags if i put my car on reverse immediately after getting in. if i wait ~30s or so before shifting to reverse, there's no lag from what i can tell.
Interesting. I don't think I experience rear view camera lag but if I put the car in reverse too quickly, the 360 view is dark with the little "working" circle. Since backing out is pretty tight, I put it back into park for a few seconds and try again after a few seconds. Seems to always do the trick...
 
As a (former) software engineer, I suspect that there isn't straightforward answer to this, even from people on the Lucid software team. These are complex systems with many interacting components that work differently when tested in isolation or as part of the overall system. At its lowest level, video cameras produce frames of pixels as a consistent rate. The Air contains a distributed system with dozens of separate computers that talk to each other over a local network. So the camera has to get the video data to the system that runs the infotainment, that system has to process it, then get it up on the screen. Slowdowns could happen at any (or multiple) points in that process.

One solution that is sometimes suggested because it is easy to understand is to replace the main computer with a faster one. This often shows improvement, but might just be hiding the symptoms rather than solving them. It could be that the underlying problem is the car's network getting overloaded--maybe six cameras all sending video streams while some other computer modules are booting up and requesting firmware is too much at once. Maybe there's some event that the system designers thought would be a rare occurrence, but turns out to now happen every time the car turns on, so needs to be handled better. Hopefully Lucid has clever people working on this, and there is not a fundamental flaw in the system design that can't be solved with some programming.
I concur with your response.

I don't think the issue are the "Cameras" per se. I think it is more likely the congestion/resource-contention in the computing and networking system in the car.

If so, this calls into question whether the architecture of the car's computing system and data traffic congestion and priority (or lack thereof) of executing certain tasks might result in excessive delays in the camera information.

If, indeed, the cameras are for "entertainment" only and cannot be used as "real-time" images, do they serve any useful purposes? Or is it just for "show"? For people using these camera views for backup and lane change, are they at risk? This is not a Lucid specific question. I am posing this question generally.

I have always discounted the "3D top view" camera as "for entertainment only" as it is "not real", laggy, and contains artifacts. However, I am much more concerned about the side-view cameras for lane change. I think it is more a marketing candy than an useful tool.

If these cameras are laggy, and laggy can be lagging by as much as hundred of mill-seconds to almost a second, do these cameras do more harm than good?

If you look closely on the dash display of images of other cars in lanes next to yours, you will notice that the cars in the adjacent lanes are already right next to you or even passing you before they show up on your screen.

I think this issue deserves more attention as it imparts on safety. I don't know how Lucid's computer system and its execution priorities/interrupts are architected. Perhaps someone far more knowledgeable than I can enlighten us.

I presume the car's ADAS system does not rely solely on the cameras and looks at more than just the cameras as inputs!
 
I've heard the main Lucid OS is linux based under the covers.

'nice -20 camera_stuff'
 
I concur with your response.

I don't think the issue are the "Cameras" per se. I think it is more likely the congestion/resource-contention in the computing and networking system in the car.

If so, this calls into question whether the architecture of the car's computing system and data traffic congestion and priority (or lack thereof) of executing certain tasks might result in excessive delays in the camera information.

If, indeed, the cameras are for "entertainment" only and cannot be used as "real-time" images, do they serve any useful purposes? Or is it just for "show"? For people using these camera views for backup and lane change, are they at risk? This is not a Lucid specific question. I am posing this question generally.

I have always discounted the "3D top view" camera as "for entertainment only" as it is "not real", laggy, and contains artifacts. However, I am much more concerned about the side-view cameras for lane change. I think it is more a marketing candy than an useful tool.

If these cameras are laggy, and laggy can be lagging by as much as hundred of mill-seconds to almost a second, do these cameras do more harm than good?

If you look closely on the dash display of images of other cars in lanes next to yours, you will notice that the cars in the adjacent lanes are already right next to you or even passing you before they show up on your screen.

I think this issue deserves more attention as it imparts on safety. I don't know how Lucid's computer system and its execution priorities/interrupts are architected. Perhaps someone far more knowledgeable than I can enlighten us.

I presume the car's ADAS system does not rely solely on the cameras and looks at more than just the cameras as inputs!
The cameras are useful as an indicator, but they are not as accurate as your eyes. The rear view camera is the one likely to lag least.

I use the cameras, and particularly the overhead, all the time. But I go slow and watch carefully to ensure things are updating. If they aren’t, I use my eyes. And I always double check with my eyes either way.

ADAS uses cameras, US sensors, radar, and lidar.
 
What is the point of the camera feature if it doesn't work? And let me be clear, if something like that doesn't work "sometimes" that's the definition of "doesn't work".

Do you know what they don't say that the display might not show the reality and put that legalese nonsense?
Because they don't want to admit that their software is buggy.
Understandable, so to be clear if your camera "doesn't work" why should the manufacturer be on the hook if you damage your car using a feature that "doesn't work"??? Not saying the lag is acceptable but by your definition if your car or software doesn't do something perfectly every single time it doesn't work.

And if you've ever read that 99.8% of terms of service that you hit accept without a cult reading that "legalese" is everywhere. Probably to stop people from suing or expecting compensation from every single thing.
Opened my door without looking law suit the car should have told me
Changed lanes without checking the blind spot and almost running some off the road, the car should have told me.
Texting while driving down the highway with DDP engaged and hitting another car. The company should have told me I shouldn't
And so on and so forth...
 
Understandable, so to be clear if your camera "doesn't work" why should the manufacturer be on the hook if you damage your car using a feature that "doesn't work"??? Not saying the lag is acceptable but by your definition if your car or software doesn't do something perfectly every single time it doesn't work.

And if you've ever read that 99.8% of terms of service that you hit accept without a cult reading that "legalese" is everywhere. Probably to stop people from suing or expecting compensation from every single thing.
Opened my door without looking law suit the car should have told me
Changed lanes without checking the blind spot and almost running some off the road, the car should have told me.
Texting while driving down the highway with DDP engaged and hitting another car. The company should have told me I shouldn't
And so on and so forth...
I think the difference here is that "working" backup camera is actually legally required and written out in FMVSS 111 and it would be a recall(and subject of many recalls by many manufacturers) if it fails to display within 2 seconds of shifting to reverse, however the definition of "working" doesn't mention anything about latency/lag and people are saying they are comparable.
There's also the debate of whether displaying incorrect and potentially misleading video feeds are worse than not displaying an image at all(the requirement for FMVSS 111), since if you know something isn't working, you won't use it as your aid, vs if something works 99 out of 100 times, you are more likely to rely on it than not, whether you admit or not.
 
The cameras are useful as an indicator, but they are not as accurate as your eyes. The rear view camera is the one likely to lag least.

I use the cameras, and particularly the overhead, all the time. But I go slow and watch carefully to ensure things are updating. If they aren’t, I use my eyes. And I always double check with my eyes either way.

ADAS uses cameras, US sensors, radar, and lidar.
No debate the driver should be alert and monitors his/her surroundings.
While the car (Lucid Air, and other modern cars) are full of sensors (US, LiDAR, radar, cameras, etc.) in some cars (perhaps the Lucid) all these sensors go through the car's computer to generate/inform of the alerts. My points is, that's a source of potential single-point of delay/failure that should be considered.

In older cars that have parking/proximity sensors (e.g., US), I think they are stand-alone alerts. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
In older cars that have parking/proximity sensors (e.g., US), I think they are stand-alone alerts. Correct me if I am wrong.
I don't think they are. In older cars most of the sensors would be wired up to a CAN bus connected to some ECU(s) which are then connected to beepers and maybe the screen. You still have multiple computers that can fail. Additionally, CAN bus "networks" are usually a chain of devices, relying on each one to "pass to the left" any message not addressed to it. If any one of those devices fails, the chain fails and the message is lost.

One noticeable difference though is that Lucid uses the main sound system for safety features (blinker sounds, brake alerts, etc) as opposed to dedicated annoying beepy/clicky speakers, which definitely has been a source of some problems. It's neat that e.g. blind spot warning sounds come from the direction of the problem in SSP, but it's not so neat when SSP is glitching out.
 
I'm hopeful they'll fix the frame rate issues on a later update. The cams have the same lower frame rate as the energy gauge in the center of the dash. My wife's VW Atlas has smoother digital gauges. Hopefully this will improve.
 
Okay, here’s a funny / interesting issue: this morning, for the first time in months, my rear view camera didn’t come up. The overhead came up fine, but the rear view and front view did not. The ultrasonic sensor beeping worked, though, as did the distance sensing, so even on the blacked out camera I still got the distance from walls and the beeping, etc.

That’s why I find it so unusual that the beeping / distance didn’t happen in OP’s case.

A logo reboot fixed it all btw, but I waited until I was at my destination because I was able to use the overhead, beeping, distance sensing, and my eyes, to back out of my insanely curved driveway anyway. Once I was on the road I didn’t need the front/rear cameras, but reboot when I got there and all was well.
 
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