Attn attorneys: Anything Objectionable in the Lucid Purchase Agreement?

[Dr Chill]

For those of you more knowledgeable than me, did you find anything that caused you to hesitate in signing the Lucid Purchase Agreement?

 

[borski]

For those of you more knowledgeable than me, did you find anything that caused you to hesitate in signing the Lucid Purchase Agreement?

No. The only thing to consider is potentially opting out of arbitration. That just requires sending an email, and there is another (long) thread on the forum about it; just search 'arbitration'

 

[Miami_Lucid_Man]

For leases are there any mandatory "return-to-Lucid" provisions at the end of the lease as with Tesla? Or any restrictions on trading in to another dealer at some point down the road?

 

[joec]

For leases are there any mandatory "return-to-Lucid" provisions at the end of the lease as with Tesla? Or any restrictions on trading in to another dealer at some point down the road?

You have the right to purchase at the end of the lease for the residual value plus a small fee. No Tesla shenanigans.

 

[nevadagame]

For those of you more knowledgeable than me, did you find anything that caused you to hesitate in signing the Lucid Purchase Agreement?

I read the whole contract carefully and contrary to what everyone in the lucid told me that lucid would update vehicle software for free for the life of the vehicle. NOT TRUE…the buyer contract which is the only document that is important says that lucid will only supply free software updates during the 4 year vehicle warranty period. The lucid staff argued firmly with me when I told them that, they assured me I was wrong until I made them read it for themselves. They were surprised and said their training told them to claim lifetime free software upgrades. I’m left wondering if this was an intentional lie or not.

 

[Dr Chill]

I read the whole contract carefully and contrary to what everyone in the lucid told me that lucid would update vehicle software for free for the life of the vehicle. NOT TRUE…the buyer contract which is the only document that is important says that lucid will only supply free software updates during the 4 year vehicle warranty period. The lucid staff argued firmly with me when I told them that, they assured me I was wrong until I made them read it for themselves. They were surprised and said their training told them to claim lifetime free software upgrades. I’m left wondering if this was an intentional lie or not.

That's not good

 

[DeaneG]

I read the whole contract carefully and contrary to what everyone in the lucid told me that lucid would update vehicle software for free for the life of the vehicle. NOT TRUE…the buyer contract which is the only document that is important says that lucid will only supply free software updates during the 4 year vehicle warranty period...

Or (hoping) at least through the warranty period. It is reasonable that the manufacturer would only offer updates for a fixed period of time, as it becomes increasingly difficult to support legacy hardware and software tools over time, but this period should be spelled out without ambiguity.

 

[nevadagame]

Or (hoping) at least through the warranty period. It is reasonable that the manufacturer would only offer updates for a fixed period of time, as it becomes increasingly difficult to support legacy hardware and software tools over time, but this period should be spelled out without ambiguity.

I agree, what made it distasteful for me is the notion that sales people may have been deceived themselves and are telling perspective customers a material fact that upper management knows not to be true. It’s only disclosed to the customer at the very moment of delivery when final papers are being signed, when most people are too excited to read the fine print, or to swept up in the moment to change their decision based on new information that they have just now seen. It’s not the best way to do business.

 

[nevadagame]

That's not good

Here it is
4. Design Changes - Software Updates
The design of the Lucid Air may change at any time without notice and without obligation to make the same or similar changes to Vehicles previously purchased or shipped. Lucid will provide over-the-air software updates for your Vehicle during the term of your Warranty, which may add new features or functionality. After the Warranty expires, future software updates may not be available depending upon the age, model, configuration, or data storage capacity of your Vehicle. You will be responsible for all costs to upgrade any parts or hardware, including labor costs, to receive such future software updates after the Warranty expires. Lucid will not be liable for any issues that arise if software is installed without required upgrades or
if the hardware is damaged or obsolete, unless covered by the warranty

 

[Tâm]

...You will be responsible for all costs to upgrade any parts or hardware, including labor costs, to receive such future software updates after the Warranty expires...

That's the risk of paying in advance for features that are not already activated.

How do I know the development would be finished in 4 years or 50,000 miles whichever first?

That's wasted money if some hardware is broken while waiting for the features finished but not done during the warranty period.

I guess the LIDAR is quite expensive.

Thus, car manufacturers should guarantee that if customers pre-paid for an unfinished features, they should not pay again for hardware/software until those features are finished even beyond the warranty period.

 

[hellolucid]

i forgot to opt out of arbitration within 60 days. is it too late now? has anyone opted out past 60days?

 

[joec]

Here it is
4. Design Changes - Software Updates
The design of the Lucid Air may change at any time without notice and without obligation to make the same or similar changes to Vehicles previously purchased or shipped. Lucid will provide over-the-air software updates for your Vehicle during the term of your Warranty, which may add new features or functionality. After the Warranty expires, future software updates may not be available depending upon the age, model, configuration, or data storage capacity of your Vehicle. You will be responsible for all costs to upgrade any parts or hardware, including labor costs, to receive such future software updates after the Warranty expires. Lucid will not be liable for any issues that arise if software is installed without required upgrades or
if the hardware is damaged or obsolete, unless covered by the warranty

I think it’s interesting you immediately assumed this wording means they will stop giving you all software updates after four years. It doesn’t say that at all. They are simply not guaranteeing they’re going to continue to support all new features after four years, which is a very different thing. Basically, they don’t want to guarantee that all the software they’re writing more than four years from now will run on a four-year old car. If the hardware still supports the latest, they will keep sending those updates. Why not?

But one imagines in four years there might be some breakthrough in software that may require more advanced hardware, no? In that case, our cars won‘t get that, because they‘d have to give us new hardware for free. They are trying to avoid the situation Tesla found itself in with the chips in the Model S that could not run the latest FSD. That’s all.

I actually think it’s interesting they mention hardware upgrades may he possible after the fact for a fee in order to get the new software. How many car companies do you know let you upgrade the car’s CPU, rather than making you buy a whole new car?

Sooner or later, any computer becomes obsolete. Even older iPhones eventually can’t run the latest OS.

 

[ves]

Our Purchase Agreement states that the car (Touring) is being sold "as is" and without a warranty. We are concerned and reached out to our DA to confirm that the car comes with a warranty. Any insight you all can provide would be greatly appreciated. We live in Virginia so not sure if the law is different here. Thx!

 

[nevadagame]

I think it’s interesting you immediately assumed this wording means they will stop giving you all software updates after four years. It doesn’t say that at all. They are simply not guaranteeing they’re going to continue to support all new features after four years, which is a very different thing. Basically, they don’t want to guarantee that all the software they’re writing more than four years from now will run on a four-year old car. If the hardware still supports the latest, they will keep sending those updates. Why not?

But one imagines in four years there might be some breakthrough in software that may require more advanced hardware, no? In that case, our cars won‘t get that, because they‘d have to give us new hardware for free. They are trying to avoid the situation Tesla found itself in with the chips in the Model S that could not run the latest FSD. That’s all.

I actually think it’s interesting they mention hardware upgrades may he possible after the fact for a fee in order to get the new software. How many car companies do you know let you upgrade the car’s CPU, rather than making you buy a whole new car?

Sooner or later, any computer becomes obsolete. Even older iPhones eventually can’t run the latest OS.

I’m not a lawyer but I understand what words in a contract mean. This is a legal document. You’re right that it says they don’t guarantee future upgrades will not be available when physical limitations in existing hardware is a factor, sure that makes perfect sense but it says other things too. Plan and simple words in this legal document say software updates will be available during the period of the warranty. That means to me that at Lucid’s discretion, they could change for them after the warranty. if you choose to believe that this means they can not change for updates after the warranty period, go right ahead. Just hope you never have to present your theory in any court. And what do you mean you find it interesting that I “jumped to that conclusion “? I didn’t jump to anything I just thought it should be discussed since I’ve been told by lucid representatives that upgrading would be for life which I know to be untrue.

 

[nevadagame]

I’m not a lawyer but I understand what words in a contract mean. This is a legal document. You’re right that it says they don’t guarantee future upgrades will not be available when physical limitations in existing hardware is a factor, sure that makes perfect sense but it says other things too. Plan and simple words in this legal document say software updates will be available during the period of the warranty. That means to me that at Lucid’s discretion, they could change for them after the warranty. if you choose to believe that this means they can not change for updates after the warranty period, go right ahead. Just hope you never have to present your theory in any court. And what do you mean you find it interesting that I “jumped to that conclusion “? I didn’t jump to anything I just thought it should be discussed since I’ve been told by lucid representatives that upgrading would be for life which I know to be untrue.

I’m not trying to bash lucid, not at all, I want them to succeed, I’m talking delivery within days! I like the car very much warts and all, I’m just so tired of apologists who jump on anyone with a criticism no matter how minor or valid.

 

[joec]

I’m not a lawyer but I understand what words in a contract mean. This is a legal document. You’re right that it says they don’t guarantee future upgrades will not be available when physical limitations in existing hardware is a factor, sure that makes perfect sense but it says other things too. Plan and simple words in this legal document say software updates will be available during the period of the warranty. That means to me that at Lucid’s discretion, they could change for them after the warranty. if you choose to believe that this means they can not change for updates after the warranty period, go right ahead. Just hope you never have to present your theory in any court. And what do you mean you find it interesting that I “jumped to that conclusion “? I didn’t jump to anything I just thought it should be discussed since I’ve been told by lucid representatives that upgrading would be for life which I know to be untrue.

You created a whole other thread with the title “Free Software Limited to 4 Years.” I’d call that jumping to a conclusion. I also call it spreading FUD.

Again, I just find it fascinating your instinct is to assume the worst intentions, when a much simpler explanation is right in the language of the clause. Nowhere in there is any suggestion they plan to cut off free updates in four years. There is zero evidence from anyone on this forum or in this contract to suggest what the Lucid rep told you is untrue. Literally no one has been charged for a software update. And no language here says that they definitely will in the future.

Sure they could start charging for software updates after four years. That would be incredibly stupid, but sure, they could do that.

They could also send an update to all of our cars that plays Christmas music 24/7 until we pay a ransom to make it stop. Or Peter Rawlinson could call each one of us up once our warranty expires and tell us we have ugly children.

What’s your point? Other than to scare people about something that is extremely unlikely to happen?

Lucid have made plenty of mistakes so far in the execution of their business plan. But I have yet to see evidence they are morons.

Generally, if you want to survive in business, you want the people who bought your thing to want to buy your thing again. You don’t accomplish that by waiting until they are getting close to needing a new thing, and then springing a bunch of petty fees on them for something that a) costs you nothing and b) had been free for the old thing. That would be a great way to get them to go buy from someone else.

And for the record, this isn’t apologizing. It’s disagreeing. If four years from now Lucid starts charging people for updates and I say they are absolutely right to do so, that would be apologizing for them.

I can’t apologize for something that didn’t happen.

 

[Artemis]

the industry standard for software is to provide support (software updates) for products for as long as the hardware supports it. apple, Samsung, google, tesla etc all do it for as long as the hardware supports it. companies stop offering software updates when the hardware is not powerful enough to support future features (eg apple dropping ios updates for iPhone 5s because it isn't powerful enough). it would be incredibly foolish for any company to go in the other direction and not provide software updates to a device that is capable of running those software versions. The clause states "After the Warranty expires, future software updates may not be available depending upon the age, model, configuration, or data storage capacity of your Vehicle. ". If the computer in the car just simply isn't powerful enough to support "x" feature, no software update can make the computer more powerful to support that feature. Also note the key word "may". It doesn't say "will not be available".

 

[nevadagame]

You created a whole other thread with the title “Free Software Limited to 4 Years.” I’d call that jumping to a conclusion. I also call it spreading FUD.

Again, I just find it fascinating your instinct is to assume the worst intentions, when a much simpler explanation is right in the language of the clause. Nowhere in there is any suggestion they plan to cut off free updates in four years. There is zero evidence from anyone on this forum or in this contract to suggest what the Lucid rep told you is untrue. Literally no one has been charged for a software update. And no language here says that they definitely will in the future.

Sure they could start charging for software updates after four years. That would be incredibly stupid, but sure, they could do that.

They could also send an update to all of our cars that plays Christmas music 24/7 until we pay a ransom to make it stop. Or Peter Rawlinson could call each one of us up once our warranty expires and tell us we have ugly children.

What’s your point? Other than to scare people about something that is extremely unlikely to happen?

Lucid have made plenty of mistakes so far in the execution of their business plan. But I have yet to see evidence they are morons.

Generally, if you want to survive in business, you want the people who bought your thing to want to buy your thing again. You don’t accomplish that by waiting until they are getting close to needing a new thing, and then springing a bunch of petty fees on them for something that a) costs you nothing and b) had been free for the old thing. That would be a great way to get them to go buy from someone else.

And for the record, this isn’t apologizing. It’s disagreeing. If four years from now Lucid starts charging people for updates and I say they are absolutely right to do so, that would be apologizing for them.

I can’t apologize for something that didn’t happen.

It’s not jumping to a conclusion if it appears in plain and clear language in a legal document buyers are required to sing. I find it interesting that you can deny what is clear to read and has no ambiguity.

 

[joec]

It’s not jumping to a conclusion if it appears in plain and clear language in a legal document buyers are required to sing. I find it interesting that you can deny what is clear to read and has no ambiguity.

Show me the exact language you are referring to. Perhaps I’m not seeing something you see, or we are talking about two different passages.

 

[ves]

Our purchase agreement states the following:

"AS IS", I understand that this vehicle is being sold "as is" with all faults and is not covered by any dealer warranty. I understand that the dealer is not required to make any repairs after I buy this vehicle. I will have to pay for all repairs."

Is this verbiage on all of the Purchase Agreements? Thanks in advance for the feedback.