Am I the only one extremely disappointed in my Dream Edition?

[milgauss]

High expectations are fine. It’s also fine to be disappointed. It’s also fine to hate the car!

That doesn’t mean someone isn’t entitled, though. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Or, maybe respectively treating the opinions of everyone who has actually purchased a car?

Seriously, re-read what you wrote.

 

[borski]

Or, maybe respectively treating the opinions of everyone who has actually purchased a car?

Seriously, re-read what you wrote.

I just did. I do not think I was disrespectful. In fact, I specifically stated I didn’t like jumping on someone to be mean, and made an analogy I thought was apropos.

Again: all opinions are welcome, at least to me, and I enjoy a good debate. Not everyone has to like the car. It is an object, not a lifestyle or whatever. I happen to like it, but it isn’t perfect. I also like other cars. I also hate others.

Again: it’s about *how* it’s said more than about *what* is said.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

What you’re reading as defensiveness is actually just realism. I don’t agree with jumping on someone to be mean, but when someone at a restaurant berates the wait staff because despite the lamb chops being super tasty, the soda was too diluted, the knife didn’t cut well enough, the tablecloth was off white rather than white, etc. - it can come off very entitled.

People are more than welcome to state their problems, obviously - the car is not perfect. I think it’s about *how* it was stated that came off as a bit ridiculous, not that the car is impervious to flaws.

Yeah you get it. I do apologize as I did not intend to sound mean/harsh, and I prefer to keep this site civil and welcoming. I myself have leveled several criticisms at the car, especially over the navigation system and Bluetooth music failures. But I do think it’s fair to point out when a criticism is inaccurate, hyperbole or impossible to please. Perhaps it struck nerve as in my prior profession a large part of it involved catering to entitled unrealistic demands, so now I pounce on it when I smell it. But yes, absolutely the car needs work, and it is justifiable to be frustrated when such an expensive vehicle has inadequacies.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I think if someone spends $180k they have a right to high expectations. Calling someone entitled is what will make this forum a gatekeeping cesspool.

It was only in reference to the specific “we’re wealthy thus don’t have 45 seconds to spare on a surround camera boot time” remark. A single mom working 3 jobs probably doesn’t have 45 seconds to spare either. Complaining about boot time is not entitled. Complaining about the boot time because your wealth entitles you to less than a 45 second wait….well that’s in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Especially when it’s hyperbole and the wait is 23 seconds.

 

[milgauss]

Yeah you get it. I do apologize as I did not intend to sound mean/harsh, and I prefer to keep this site civil and welcoming. I myself have leveled several criticisms at the car, especially over the navigation system and Bluetooth music failures. But I do think it’s fair to point out when a criticism is inaccurate, hyperbole or impossible to please. Perhaps it struck nerve as in my prior profession a large part of it involved catering to entitled unrealistic demands, so now I pounce on it when I smell it. But yes, absolutely the car needs work, and it is justifiable to be frustrated when such an expensive vehicle has inadequacies.

The guy drove the car for 3,000 miles before posting his thoughts. Other than his range comment, nothing he said was "entitled unrealistic demands." Sounded way more like frustration and disappointed in being so excited about something, spending $180k, and feeling let down.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Oh, come on---Peter has been touting breaking the 500 Mile Barrier to every camera and microphone he can find. In Sales & Marketing, that's a "promise". ( Certainly not in a legal sense.)

And he didn’t lie. He did not say “under every day driving circumstances you will get over 500 miles of range”.

 

[borski]

It was only in reference to the specific “we’re wealthy thus don’t have 45 seconds to spare on a surround camera boot time” remark. A single mom working 3 jobs probably doesn’t have 45 seconds to spare either. Complaining about boot time is not entitled. Complaining about the boot time because your wealth entitles you to less than a 45 second wait….well that’s in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Especially when it’s hyperbole and the wait is 23 seconds.

This is what I meant by entitled. It’s not the issue, but how it was stated.

 

[borski]

The guy drove the car for 3,000 miles before posting his thoughts. Other than his range comment, nothing he said was "entitled unrealistic demands." Sounded way more like frustration and disappointed in being so excited about something, spending $180k, and feeling let down.

That’s fair. Point taken. I disagree that it couldn’t have been stated better, but many of the points *themselves* were valid criticisms.

One important note: the issue with speed isn’t a hardware one, but a software one - once they move from emulating Android Automotive to running it natively it should get much faster.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

The guy drove the car for 3,000 miles before posting his thoughts. Other than his range comment, nothing he said was "entitled unrealistic demands." Sounded way more like frustration and disappointed in being so excited about something, spending $180k, and feeling let down.

No, the range comment wasn’t entitled at all. It was the one about how Lucid owners are of a certain class of people thus deserve less than 45 second boot time for the surround camera. That one hit a nerve. Anyway, apologies for instigating any controversy.

 

[milgauss]

I just did. I do not think I was disrespectful. In fact, I specifically stated I didn’t like jumping on someone to be mean, and made an analogy I thought was apropos.

Again: all opinions are welcome, at least to me, and I enjoy a good debate. Not everyone has to like the car. It is an object, not a lifestyle or whatever. I happen to like it, but it isn’t perfect. I also like other cars. I also hate others.

Again: it’s about *how* it’s said more than about *what* is said.

Anyway, carry on.

I'll re-read it for you:

High expectations are fine. It’s also fine to be disappointed. It’s also fine to hate the car!

That doesn’t mean someone isn’t entitled, though. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Translation: "Opinions I disagree with are absolutely fine, but that doesn't mean the person isn't still an idiot."

 

[borski]

I'll re-read it for you:



Translation: "Opinions I disagree with are absolutely fine, but that doesn't mean the person still isn't still an idiot."

That is a mischaracterization of what I said.

Plenty of people disagree with me, on a lot of things. Being entitled and being an idiot aren’t the same, and I didn’t call OP an idiot.

Coming off as entitled has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence or merit, and has everything to do with how something is said.

For example, I’ve debated with plenty of smart people about how to solve the poverty crisis in San Francisco. Many of them are entitled and default to “why can’t they just stop being lazy and find jobs.” They aren’t idiots, just privileged and entitled.

Also, not every argument comes off entitled.

Please don’t mischaracterize my words to mean something they don’t say.

 

[milgauss]

Please don’t mischaracterize my words to mean something they don’t say.

Maybe take that approach with the OP...

 

[borski]

Maybe take that approach with the OP...

1. “Worst new car experience I’ve ever had in my 40+ years of driving” - having driven plenty of new cars, many of them enjoyable, to characterize as the “worst ever” seems hyperbolic at best.

2. “why not put Scotch Guard on the white carpet... maybe people would like to be able to have their car look clean?” - then… do that? It seems very entitled to expect the manufacturer to do that for you; in fact, I don’t know of one that does.

3. “Folks that can afford to buy this car are usually hard-working and driven, and are not able to wait 45 seconds every time they get in their car for the surround cameras to load.” - please. The idea that everyone buying this car is “too important” or “too busy” to wait 45 seconds before driving is extremely entitled.

Etc.

Again, I have no bone to pick. Many of the criticisms are valid, and have been stated elsewhere as well - some of them even by me.

You seem to want me to agree that the post didn’t come off entitled, or that there could have been a more charitable reading - maybe there could have been, but my reading was certainly not outlandish.

And, I reiterate: that doesn’t make OP wrong. You can be correct, intelligent, smart, whatever - and also come off entitled.

 

[CraZ8]

This thread is lively. Let’s do politics and religion next!

 

[milgauss]

1. “Worst new car experience I’ve ever had in my 40+ years of driving” - having driven plenty of new cars, many of them enjoyable, to characterize as the “worst ever” seems hyperbolic at best.

2. “why not put Scotch Guard on the white carpet... maybe people would like to be able to have their car look clean?” - then… do that? It seems very entitled to expect the manufacturer to do that for you; in fact, I don’t know of one that does.

3. “Folks that can afford to buy this car are usually hard-working and driven, and are not able to wait 45 seconds every time they get in their car for the surround cameras to load.” - please. The idea that everyone buying this car is “too important” or “too busy” to wait 45 seconds before driving is extremely entitled.

Etc.

Again, I have no bone to pick. Many of the criticisms are valid, and have been stated elsewhere as well - some of them even by me.

You seem to want me to agree that the post didn’t come off entitled, or that there could have been a more charitable reading - maybe there could have been, but my reading was certainly not outlandish.

And, I reiterate: that doesn’t make OP wrong. You can be correct, intelligent, smart, whatever - and also come off entitled.

You are literally using the same adjective "entitled" for someone posting his car dislikes as you say you would for someone who says, "homeless people are lazy."

Whatever, man. If you don't see the issue with that, there is nothing more to say...

 

[borski]

You are literally using the same adjective "entitled" for someone posting his car dislikes as you say you would for someone who says, "homeless people are lazy."

Whatever, man. If you don't see the issue with that, there is nothing more to say...

I am not equating the two! I was trying to provide an analogy in response to your assertion that I called OP an idiot because I disagreed with their opinion, which I decidedly did not do.

I was *not* saying that what OP said and “homeless people are lazy” are equally entitled; the latter is much more so.

Again, by way of analogy: one person can come off as vain, for example, because they spend a lot of time looking in the mirror and complementing themselves in the morning. Another may be *more* vain by commisioning statues and paintings of themselves and filling their home with those commissions. Those aren’t equivalent, but both can come off as vain.

Does that help clarify the nuance?

 

[joec]

You are literally using the same adjective "entitled" for someone posting his car dislikes as you say you would for someone who says, "homeless people are lazy."

Whatever, man. If you don't see the issue with that, there is nothing more to say...

Posting car dislikes is not the point. Implying that people who have the money to buy a Lucid should have their time respected more than those who do not is the point.

Not all rich people are “driven.” The vast majority are children or grandchildren of people who were driven.

And their time is not more valuable than the rest of our time.

Having said that, apologies have been offered. I think we mostly all agree here some things said here seemed harsher than they were intended, on both sides.

Hard not to get emotional about this stuff. But I think we all mostly want to be respectful here. So let’s hope we can steer ourselves toward that goal.

 

[digiboxer]

And he didn’t lie. He did not say “under every day driving circumstances you will get over 500 miles of range”.

I'm not saying he lied--I'm saying he's promoting his product vis a vis a marketing "promise" that has a HUGE asterisk ...

If it weren't for this forum, I certainly wouldn't have known about the asterisk. I'm not knocking the car---I'm trying to understand what it's really like, versus what it's being advertised as.

 

[borski]

Posting car dislikes is not the point. Implying that people who have the money to buy a Lucid should have their time respected more than those who do not is the point.

Not all rich people are “driven.” The vast majority are children or grandchildren of people who were driven.

And their time is not more valuable than the rest of our time.

Having said that, apologies have been offered. I think we mostly all agree here some things said here seemed harsher than they were intended, on both sides.

Hard not to get emotional about this stuff. But I think we all mostly want to be respectful here. So let’s hope we can steer ourselves toward that goal.

This, 100%.

 

[borski]

I'm not saying he lied--I'm saying he's promoting his product vis a vis a marketing "promise" that has a HUGE asterisk ...

If it weren't for this forum, I certainly wouldn't have known about the asterisk. I'm not knocking the car---I'm trying to understand what it's really like, versus what it's being advertised as.

I can understand that frustration, for sure. I think it applies to all cars, including ICE vehicles (I’ve *never* gotten the mpg the sticker stated, because I drive with a bit of a lead foot), and as such I think it’s endemic to the industry as a whole - that said, I think people pay *attention* to it more in an EV because gas stations are ubiquitous and quick, so it matters a lot less there.

But I do know what you mean; if you’re not familiar with an EV, I can understand the frustration of realizing it’s a “best case” estimate and not an average case.