Air Touring 2024: Abnormally Slow Charging at Electrify America Fast Chargers

Callie Preston

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Lucid Air Touring 2024
Hi fellow owners. I've owned my Lucid Air Touring 2024 for three months now and have been very frustrated by the slow charging rates at Electrify America (EA). I've only charged 3 times, each time with my battery down at 5-12% and plugged into a separate charger station all by myself. All three times it has taken about 85-95 minutes for my battery to reach 80%. Despite what the web site quotes, I have never gotten close to what Lucid specifies is possible; i.e "200 miles (charge) per 15 minutes" even while the battery was well below the 80% threshold.

Has anyone experienced this and found a solution? I wonder if my rate is limited while I am using the "free charging promotion." Or might it be that my software version is out of date. Just this last weekend I got a series of 3 updates despite getting none before that. I would appreciate any insight or recommendations on how to address my very slow charging.
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It more likely the charging station that you were at than the car. What station or stations did you use and did you note what the power that you were receiving and if there was a message on the car dash saying power limited by charger? There is an app called PlugShare that can show what power other people are getting from a specific site and charger.

Please tell us what version of software you are on in the car. That may be a separate issue.
 
It's difficult to tell if it is the charger or the car limiting the power your car gets. When I first got my touring, I was disappointed that it didn't charge more quickly, too. And I blamed the charger. Sometimes I would see the message saying that the power was limited by the charger, as Adnillien said above. Other times I didn't. Then, when EA updated some of the chargers I use, I noticed a message on the charger display in addition to the current charging speed. The new message indicates the charging speed requested by my car. More often than not, the charger was providing the amount of speed/power that the car was requesting. So, the car was the limiting factor, not the charger. But, without a charger displaying that message, I would never have known and continued to assume it was the charger not providing enough power. So, the takeaway is this, your car may not be charging at the speed you want, or it may not be charging at the speed it should. But, without knowing what power the car is requesting, it's difficult to tell. You can also try other chargers (not EA). You'll have to pay for them but it might be worth it to further diagnose the problem.
 
It's difficult to tell if it is the charger or the car limiting the power your car gets. When I first got my touring, I was disappointed that it didn't charge more quickly, too. And I blamed the charger. Sometimes I would see the message saying that the power was limited by the charger, as Adnillien said above. Other times I didn't. Then, when EA updated some of the chargers I use, I noticed a message on the charger display in addition to the current charging speed. The new message indicates the charging speed requested by my car. More often than not, the charger was providing the amount of speed/power that the car was requesting. So, the car was the limiting factor, not the charger. But, without a charger displaying that message, I would never have known and continued to assume it was the charger not providing enough power. So, the takeaway is this, your car may not be charging at the speed you want, or it may not be charging at the speed it should. But, without knowing what power the car is requesting, it's difficult to tell. You can also try other chargers (not EA). You'll have to pay for them but it might be worth it to further diagnose the problem.
Thanks for this detailed response and recommendation. I plan on doing a closer inspection of what you noted and perhaps even try other locations with the insight of the PlugShare app for perspective of what to expect.
 
It more likely the charging station that you were at than the car. What station or stations did you use and did you note what the power that you were receiving and if there was a message on the car dash saying power limited by charger? There is an app called PlugShare that can show what power other people are getting from a specific site and charger.

Please tell us what version of software you are on in the car. That may be a separate issue.
Hi Adnillien: I appreciate the reply. I've gone to the same Electrify America station at the Bal Harbour Shops in Miami each of the three times. Here is that location on PlugShare: https://www.plugshare.com/location/69529

RE: Power Indicators
I don't recall but did look on my dash as well as the charger station to see if something was evidently wrong but have not seen any warnings or messages indicating that I was power limited. I'll install PlugShare and try charging this week. I'll take some photos of the Power readings on the charging station and dash to have proper notes since my memory is a bit fuzzy.

RE: software installed
My app shows version: 2.1.64. Note that I have not yet charged on this version since I just got a series of updates back to back to back this weekend.
 
Hi Adnillien: I appreciate the reply. I've gone to the same Electrify America station at the Bal Harbour Shops in Miami each of the three times. Here is that location on PlugShare: https://www.plugshare.com/location/69529

RE: Power Indicators
I don't recall but did look on my dash as well as the charger station to see if something was evidently wrong but have not seen any warnings or messages indicating that I was power limited. I'll install PlugShare and try charging this week. I'll take some photos of the Power readings on the charging station and dash to have proper notes since my memory is a bit fuzzy.

RE: software installed
My app shows version: 2.1.64. Note that I have not yet charged on this version since I just got a series of updates back to back to back this weekend.
If you could take a screen shot of the charging tab of the Lucid app while charging, that would help. Likewise a picture of the EA screen.

Your software is up to date so no worries there. As far as I know there were no changes to the charging in the last couple of updates.
 
To further clarify, speed of charge can vary wildly depending on a lot of conditions and the charger itself. I've seen speeds over 250 at times. And I've seen very slow speeds.

My biggest disappointment was that the charging speed drops significantly and quickly almost from the start. I've been told it has to do that by design for the battery management system. But, it's still disappointing to not be able to keep speeds over 100kW once I get to 50% charge.
 
It's difficult to tell if it is the charger or the car limiting the power your car gets. When I first got my touring, I was disappointed that it didn't charge more quickly, too. And I blamed the charger. Sometimes I would see the message saying that the power was limited by the charger, as Adnillien said above. Other times I didn't. Then, when EA updated some of the chargers I use, I noticed a message on the charger display in addition to the current charging speed. The new message indicates the charging speed requested by my car. More often than not, the charger was providing the amount of speed/power that the car was requesting. So, the car was the limiting factor, not the charger. But, without a charger displaying that message, I would never have known and continued to assume it was the charger not providing enough power. So, the takeaway is this, your car may not be charging at the speed you want, or it may not be charging at the speed it should. But, without knowing what power the car is requesting, it's difficult to tell. You can also try other chargers (not EA). You'll have to pay for them but it might be worth it to further diagnose the problem.
This is concerning absent some special circumstances. For example, did this happen during a Buffalo winter? But Callie Preston had a similar experience in Miami. And this is not August in Miami.
o further clarify, speed of charge can vary wildly depending on a lot of conditions and the charger itself. I've seen speeds over 250 at times. And I've seen very slow speeds.

My biggest disappointment was that the charging speed drops significantly and quickly almost from the start. I've been told it has to do that by design for the battery management system. But, it's still disappointing to not be able to keep speeds over 100kW once I get to 50% charge.

My question would be whether the total time was approximately equal to the promised total time, not a particular segment.
 
This is concerning absent some special circumstances. For example, did this happen during a Buffalo winter? But Callie Preston had a similar experience in Miami. And this is not August in Miami.


My question would be whether the total time was approximately equal to the promised total time, not a particular segment.
You will never get the promised time because EA never does 350kW. It is just theoretical. Among the best I have recorded was 19% to 70% in GT in 25 min at 62F Ambient after pre-conditioning 63kWh. As per how miles that is, it can be as high as 250 miles at EPA test conditions. In real world if you drive at 70moh on hughway, it could be 180 miles.
 
You did not say what charger you've tried ? EA 150 or EA 350 ?
You did not say if
or how long
you pre-conditioned the battery? In Maimi the battery may be too hot so it will limit charge. Pre-condition.

With low SOC (in teens %SOC or below) and at proper temperature:

you may see 170 kW delivered on a 150 EA charger ( I've seen this on different chargers in different States)
and over 315 kW on 350 EA chargers. (ditto... 322kW at Portsmouth, NH EA 350s)
These are peak rates. They do not stay there long, but...
At 50% SOC you should still be above 100 kW.
I'm seeing ~ 75kW at 80% and under 30 min. to get there.
I can get 200 miles in 13 min. consistently. Depends on how low SOC is when I start.
This is with "old" GT battery. Search the site for charging curves posted. We've seen pretty consistent curves ... they are validated.

Batteries like to be same temp as humans.
 
You will never get the promised time because EA never does 350kW. It is just theoretical. Among the best I have recorded was 19% to 70% in GT in 25 min at 62F Ambient after pre-conditioning 63kWh. As per how miles that is, it can be as high as 250 miles at EPA test conditions. In real world if you drive at 70moh on hughway, it could be 180 miles.
Understood. But I don't know how to account for that. I was trying to account for varying charging curves

At some point, hopefully within a few years, charging facilities will become sufficiently ubiquitous that one can stop for a quick five or ten minute boost. If one can get sufficient miles of range in that time, then the car's range will become functionally similar to that of an ICE vehicle. That, IMO, will be the best standard. Total charge time, to me, will become like 0-60, a relatively meaningless distinction (to me, it would be passing from 60 and, similarly, braking from high speed). But, alas, we are not there yet nor is it even visible on the horizon.
 
Also I think during peak summer hours, EA itself throttles the power to their stations due to high demand from other sources.
 
This is concerning absent some special circumstances. For example, did this happen during a Buffalo winter? But Callie Preston had a similar experience in Miami. And this is not August in Miami.


My question would be whether the total time was approximately equal to the promised total time, not a particular segment.
I've had wildly varying experiences with charging speed and time. As I said, I've seen over 270. And I know there's been plenty of times where the charger actually is the limiting factor. But even when I start out getting a good or at least decent speed, it drops quickly and goes below 100 kW at or around 50% SOC and that is independent of climate, preconditioning etc... I think that's just how it works with a Touring. But if others have not experienced this, I'd love to know that.

But I'm not sure what you mean by promised total time. Do you mean the time remaining displayed on the charger when I start charging to reach the set charge limit (80 or 10%)? If so, I can't answer that because I literally never wait that long. I pull the plug and move on because it gets way too slow before I get to 80 or 100%.

And I'm not complaining. At lower SOC with the proper conditions and charger, I've gotten over 100 miles in 10 minutes. So that's good and I just plan accordingly on when and where I stop. When possible, I'll just let it get down to 20%, charge to 50-60% and move on to the next charger or just get enough to get home
 
Halodde, I completely agree with you. I just took my pure in for its 1 year service at 20,000 miles (it sat unused for 5 months). Complained that at virtually every single charge station the Lucid is out charged by most everything that sits next to me, every Hyundai, Mercedes, Porsche, VW and the majority of BMWs. Yesterday I was at a 350kw EA station. An Ionic 5 pulled up at the same time. We plugged in less then 1 minute apart. I was at 41%, he was at 40%. The Lucid predicted full charge ( to 90%) in 40 minutes and I pulled 170kwh. For less then 5 minutes. I hit 52% and I was below 100kwh at 70%, the Ionic left at 89%. I was down to 60 kwh. At 80% I was below 40 kwh. When I hit 90% and stopped charging, I was below 20 kwh and had been there 1 hour and 20 minutes. Unacceptable.
The Lucid service center told me the car was functioning correctly. If DC fast chargers are used often it limits charging to protect the battery and that all brands do this. My daily experience watching everyone pull away charged long before the Lucid gets there would seem to call BS on this but the Lucid definitely is severely limiting charge speed. So much for the Wonder of the Wunderbox. My most used car in my "daily rotation" typically gets about 50k miles yearly. I commute 90 miles each way through the heart of Southern CA and a few times per month I commute 330 miles one way. My typical charge session goes something like this; Head to one of 3 350 kw stations near home, hope that at least 3 of 6 chargers are actually working, get in line (all functioning chargers are in use and usually there are 4 to 7 cars in line), wait 45 minutes to 1 hour to get on a charger, charge for 1 hour and 15 minutes (90%) and head home exhausted and frustrated.
I'm only at home about 7 hours, so there is no chance the Lucid will charge enough overnight to drive to work and back. To put in the high speed Lucid charger would require an upgrade to 400 amp service for my house. I was quoted $20k to do this not include the cost to repair the street that we would have to dig up. So that's never going to happen. I told the Lucid service rep that id prefer the battery be treated as disposable, like windshield wipers, tires or brakes, and replace it every 2-3 years. He said that it would cost in excess of $20k. I said it costs me over $500 in time waiting to charge every day. We all have to be in a similar situation as these are not cheap cars to buy in the first place. By the way, my wife's Mach e doesn't seem to suffer from any of these issues. Just like all of those other cars I watch so jealously at the charging stations. Again, he claimed this is normal for all brands and that my Lucid is behaving properly. I don't know for sure but I don't believe Lucid right now.
These are the kinds of things that will discourage the general public from ever accepting EVs. We bought our EVs as an experiment. I believe we have our answers. I like the quiet operation and love the acceleration. That's were it ends. As a performance vehicle, they lack soul. I could accept this for the instant acceleration but I refuse to accept the massive inconvenience. I believe the general public feels the same.
 
180 mile per day commute, 3 mile/kw-hr efficiency, 7 hour to charge means you only need a 40 amp charger. On the days with the 330 mile drive you would need to use a DCFC to top up.

How would a 40 amp charger require an upgrade to 400 amp service?
 
Halodde, I completely agree with you. I just took my pure in for its 1 year service at 20,000 miles (it sat unused for 5 months). Complained that at virtually every single charge station the Lucid is out charged by most everything that sits next to me, every Hyundai, Mercedes, Porsche, VW and the majority of BMWs. Yesterday I was at a 350kw EA station. An Ionic 5 pulled up at the same time. We plugged in less then 1 minute apart. I was at 41%, he was at 40%. The Lucid predicted full charge ( to 90%) in 40 minutes and I pulled 170kwh. For less then 5 minutes. I hit 52% and I was below 100kwh at 70%, the Ionic left at 89%. I was down to 60 kwh. At 80% I was below 40 kwh. When I hit 90% and stopped charging, I was below 20 kwh and had been there 1 hour and 20 minutes. Unacceptable.
The Lucid service center told me the car was functioning correctly. If DC fast chargers are used often it limits charging to protect the battery and that all brands do this. My daily experience watching everyone pull away charged long before the Lucid gets there would seem to call BS on this but the Lucid definitely is severely limiting charge speed. So much for the Wonder of the Wunderbox. My most used car in my "daily rotation" typically gets about 50k miles yearly. I commute 90 miles each way through the heart of Southern CA and a few times per month I commute 330 miles one way. My typical charge session goes something like this; Head to one of 3 350 kw stations near home, hope that at least 3 of 6 chargers are actually working, get in line (all functioning chargers are in use and usually there are 4 to 7 cars in line), wait 45 minutes to 1 hour to get on a charger, charge for 1 hour and 15 minutes (90%) and head home exhausted and frustrated.
I'm only at home about 7 hours, so there is no chance the Lucid will charge enough overnight to drive to work and back. To put in the high speed Lucid charger would require an upgrade to 400 amp service for my house. I was quoted $20k to do this not include the cost to repair the street that we would have to dig up. So that's never going to happen. I told the Lucid service rep that id prefer the battery be treated as disposable, like windshield wipers, tires or brakes, and replace it every 2-3 years. He said that it would cost in excess of $20k. I said it costs me over $500 in time waiting to charge every day. We all have to be in a similar situation as these are not cheap cars to buy in the first place. By the way, my wife's Mach e doesn't seem to suffer from any of these issues. Just like all of those other cars I watch so jealously at the charging stations. Again, he claimed this is normal for all brands and that my Lucid is behaving properly. I don't know for sure but I don't believe Lucid right now.
These are the kinds of things that will discourage the general public from ever accepting EVs. We bought our EVs as an experiment. I believe we have our answers. I like the quiet operation and love the acceleration. That's were it ends. As a performance vehicle, they lack soul. I could accept this for the instant acceleration but I refuse to accept the massive inconvenience. I believe the general public feels the same.
You really shouldn't compare your charge rates to other cars. The Pure comes with 88kwh battery. The Ioniq is either 58 or 72.6 kwh. Even with the large battery that is a 17% difference in battery sizes. Don't look at the time when you compared look at the the kwh delivered to the cars in the same amount of time. Comparing % is just folly and it's obviously getting you riled up over the differences.
 
You really shouldn't compare your charge rates to other cars. The Pure comes with 88kwh battery. The Ioniq is either 58 or 72.6 kwh. Even with the large battery that is a 17% difference in battery sizes. Don't look at the time when you compared look at the the kwh delivered to the cars in the same amount of time. Comparing % is just folly and it's obviously getting you riled up over the differences.
I believe the AWD Pure has a 92 KWh battery. Given that joecrna states he’s had his Pure for at least a year, it’s a good bet he’s got the former AWD version.
 
Doesn't the Air require an 1000V charger to get a full spreed charge?

Some EA stations can't provide the voltage Lucid needs to get full power, and the current must go through an internal DC to DC converter which slows down the speed significantly due to the power limit of the converter.

Other 800-900V cars don't use that approach. GM has a switch to so the Hummer can charge at 400V instead of 800V if the charger can't deliver 800V. I think Hyundai uses the motors (or something like that) which is not power limited to convert the voltage from 400V to 800V. The Mach-e has a 400V battery so it never has the voltage conversion issue.

You should look for chargers that can supply 1000V. I think most of the new ones can, but the older EA chargers probably cannot. I think there is a voltage rating on the side of the charger somewhere. It might be small and hard to find.
 
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