Tire/Wheel Discussion

There are sidewall repair kits though I've never used one and I've heard you should probably carry an angle grinder and flappy wheel too to prep the sidewall.
Regarding cell reception, iPhones and some android phones come with satellite texting capability. Still, getting towed on a dirt road is not cheap!
Yeah, there are a variety of satellite comms devices one could bring along. But even so, you could easily be sitting around for hours waiting for a tow truck to appear, so it's not just a question of money.
 
Okay, but which tires work best for a minivan?

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FWIW, the new Pirelli P Zero PZ5 that will be on the largest Gravity wheels has a considerably squarer shoulder than the PZ4 it updates. This is interesting, as European tire brands usually stay with more rounded shoulders due to the more pronounced crowning of most European roads compared to U.S. roads.

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I have a dumb question -- I was just looking at R1S specs (comparing power ratings), and I noticed that the *smaller* wheels there are less efficient: 22" wheels have 410mi EPA rating, while 20" have 370mi. Is that because of the weight of the rest of the all-terrain package, or the fact that the 20s are all-terrain? (Yes, I know this is a Lucid forum, not a Rivian forum...)
 
I have a dumb question -- I was just looking at R1S specs (comparing power ratings), and I noticed that the *smaller* wheels there are less efficient: 22" wheels have 410mi EPA rating, while 20" have 370mi. Is that because of the weight of the rest of the all-terrain package, or the fact that the 20s are all-terrain? (Yes, I know this is a Lucid forum, not a Rivian forum...)
All terrain tires are much less efficient than all season tires.
 
I have a dumb question -- I was just looking at R1S specs (comparing power ratings), and I noticed that the *smaller* wheels there are less efficient: 22" wheels have 410mi EPA rating, while 20" have 370mi. Is that because of the weight of the rest of the all-terrain package, or the fact that the 20s are all-terrain? (Yes, I know this is a Lucid forum, not a Rivian forum...)
The All-terrain tires are inefficient on rolling resistance because they need to grab onto gravel and rocks:) They also have a lot of give in the tread to compress.
 
Are these 20"/21" wheels or will smaller diameter wheels fit over the brakes?
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I like the idea of a set of all-terrain (3PMSF) tires for snow/dirt and a set of summer wheels.
I wonder if these are the KO2s? And what size fits, the smallest outer diameter 20" ko2 is 31.8" (Gravity is 30.4" front 31" rear)

"The cars we used for this off-road portion were shod with the standard Michelin Primacy all-season tires (no cheating with knobby all-terrains) and it still performed quite capably. Lucid has tested the Gravity on BF Goodrich K02s, and while there are no current plans to offer them as a factory option, nothing can be ruled out for the future.

After warming up with some dirt donuts, we moved over to a larger horse paddock where they set up a rallycross course (essentially an autocross on dirt and sand). After a recon lap to check out the course in medium mode, we switched over to everything off and hit the accelerator. With the electronic nannies mostly sidelined, the Gravity was an absolute hoot to hoon around the course, hanging the back end out and putting in lots of counter steer with that squared off wheel. According to Lucid vehicle controls engineer Esther Unti, when running the same course on the K02s, the Gravity could carry another 40 mph!"

 
My current car (2018 Audi Q5) needed new tires, so I got a set of Michelin Primacy Tour A/S's to get an idea of how I might like them on Gravity. My previous tires were Michelin Crossclimate 2s. The original tires on the car were Continental Crosscontacts. My previous car (2010 Subaru Outback) also came with Crosscontacts, and I replaced them with Continental TruContacts when they wore out.

The Primacies are easily the best of the bunch. Cruising on smooth pavement, they are an absolute dream--quiet and comfortable, soaking up small bumps for an excellent ride. In more spirited driving, the Primacies really shine compared to these other tires. The CrossClimate 2s had quite high handling limits, but they would wail in protest at anything over 50% of their maximum grip. It's been a while since I drove on the Continentals, but I remember them (especially the TruContacts) having grip just a little lower than the CrossClimate 2s, but without so much of the drama in curves. The Primacies, however, really feel as though they are pulling you around the corner. No drama, no complaints, just plenty of lateral grip. Turn-in is very responsive too, noticeably more so than the other three tires. With the others, I was negotiating turns more by eye than by feel; these are the first tires that really give me a visceral sense of how the vehicle is moving over the road and where it's headed. They have injected a lot more fun into my vehicle. I've driven once so far on a very wet road during moderate-to-heavy rain. The water was never deep enough to test hydroplane resistance, but the grip of the Primacies was outstanding. I stabbed at the brake once to see if I could get the car to skid or engage the ABS. Nope. The tires just yanked on the road and rapidly decelerated, sending my bag on the front seat flying. My one small complaint about the tires is that on rough pavement, they are a little more noisy than I would like. (Note that I am very sensitive to noise and I hate it. Most people probably wouldn't notice.) I have not been able to do a direct sound comparison to other tires, so the noise is mostly comparing the Primacies on different road surfaces. My only "off-road" experience so far is just my gravel driveway; I can't tell too much at a maximum speed of 8 m.p.h.

Overall, the Primacies seem like an excellent choice for Gravity. They are everything that I would want in a grand touring tire. They deliver an outstanding ride that is quiet most of the time. They have more grip than I will probably ever use on a public road. They are responsive and make the car fun to drive. And they seem safe and confident in wet conditions. I will reserve my final judgement until I can get a test drive, but my current bet is that these will be my choice. I placed my Gravity order with the 20/21" wheels, but I honestly don't think that I'll like the Hankook tires very much. I want something that is more responsive and engaging to drive. I was worried that the lower profile of the 21/22 wheels would make the ride too harsh, but a little math tells me that the sidewall height of the 21/22" wheels on Gravity is within a couple of millimeters of the sidewall height of my current tires (235/55R19). Of course, the suspension tuning is different, and Gravity is nearly 50% heavier . . . but the 21/22s and Michelins will probably be the sweet spot for me.
 
Still trawling through old forums and I see a lot of complaints about 21" Air wheels having a lot of damage issues with poorly maintained roads. Looking at the description for the Pirelli 22/23s, the configurator says "They are not suitable driving on ice, snow, or damaged road surfaces." Are these essentially impractical tires if you don't live in California, or is it more nuanced than that? Note that I am in Boston, and we have both snow in the winter and notorously potholed roads.

I realize it's also possible to have a separate set of winter wheels/tires. Is that something that normal humans with busy lives actually do? (At least the gravity has enough cargo space to take them to and from the shop, I suppose.)
 
Still trawling through old forums and I see a lot of complaints about 21" Air wheels having a lot of damage issues with poorly maintained roads. Looking at the description for the Pirelli 22/23s, the configurator says "They are not suitable driving on ice, snow, or damaged road surfaces." Are these essentially impractical tires if you don't live in California, or is it more nuanced than that? Note that I am in Boston, and we have both snow in the winter and notorously potholed roads.

I realize it's also possible to have a separate set of winter wheels/tires. Is that something that normal humans with busy lives actually do? (At least the gravity has enough cargo space to take them to and from the shop, I suppose.)

The Pirelli PZ5's on the 22/23" Gravity wheels actually have sidewalls slightly taller (0.8" front / 0.3" rear) than on the Air 21" wheels. But the Gravity is heavier, so I don't really know if that would be any hedge against pothole damage.

And in Boston you would need both winter wheels as well as winter tires if you opt for the largest wheel set. There are currently are no all-season or all-weather tires that will fit the 22/23" wheel set and, given how unusual the staggered widths and diameters are on such large wheels, I suspect it might be a while before any come on the market . . . if ever.
 
My current car (2018 Audi Q5) needed new tires, so I got a set of Michelin Primacy Tour A/S's to get an idea of how I might like them on Gravity. My previous tires were Michelin Crossclimate 2s. The original tires on the car were Continental Crosscontacts. My previous car (2010 Subaru Outback) also came with Crosscontacts, and I replaced them with Continental TruContacts when they wore out.

The Primacies are easily the best of the bunch. Cruising on smooth pavement, they are an absolute dream--quiet and comfortable, soaking up small bumps for an excellent ride. In more spirited driving, the Primacies really shine compared to these other tires. The CrossClimate 2s had quite high handling limits, but they would wail in protest at anything over 50% of their maximum grip. It's been a while since I drove on the Continentals, but I remember them (especially the TruContacts) having grip just a little lower than the CrossClimate 2s, but without so much of the drama in curves. The Primacies, however, really feel as though they are pulling you around the corner. No drama, no complaints, just plenty of lateral grip. Turn-in is very responsive too, noticeably more so than the other three tires. With the others, I was negotiating turns more by eye than by feel; these are the first tires that really give me a visceral sense of how the vehicle is moving over the road and where it's headed. They have injected a lot more fun into my vehicle. I've driven once so far on a very wet road during moderate-to-heavy rain. The water was never deep enough to test hydroplane resistance, but the grip of the Primacies was outstanding. I stabbed at the brake once to see if I could get the car to skid or engage the ABS. Nope. The tires just yanked on the road and rapidly decelerated, sending my bag on the front seat flying. My one small complaint about the tires is that on rough pavement, they are a little more noisy than I would like. (Note that I am very sensitive to noise and I hate it. Most people probably wouldn't notice.) I have not been able to do a direct sound comparison to other tires, so the noise is mostly comparing the Primacies on different road surfaces. My only "off-road" experience so far is just my gravel driveway; I can't tell too much at a maximum speed of 8 m.p.h.

Overall, the Primacies seem like an excellent choice for Gravity. They are everything that I would want in a grand touring tire. They deliver an outstanding ride that is quiet most of the time. They have more grip than I will probably ever use on a public road. They are responsive and make the car fun to drive. And they seem safe and confident in wet conditions. I will reserve my final judgement until I can get a test drive, but my current bet is that these will be my choice. I placed my Gravity order with the 20/21" wheels, but I honestly don't think that I'll like the Hankook tires very much. I want something that is more responsive and engaging to drive. I was worried that the lower profile of the 21/22 wheels would make the ride too harsh, but a little math tells me that the sidewall height of the 21/22" wheels on Gravity is within a couple of millimeters of the sidewall height of my current tires (235/55R19). Of course, the suspension tuning is different, and Gravity is nearly 50% heavier . . . but the 21/22s and Michelins will probably be the sweet spot for me.

This tracks the test results from Tire Rack on the Primacies. In fact, of 20 all-season tires tested, the Primacies were among the quietest and had the best wet and dry braking numbers -- by a considerable margin.


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The downside is that they're not particularly efficient. Unless there is are erroneous entries on both the Lucid spec sheets and the order configurator, the EPA range for the Primacies is the same as the Pirelli PZ5's, although the Primacies are on smaller wheels that also look to be more aerodynamic than the largest wheels.
 
This tracks the test results from Tire Rack on the Primacies. In fact, of 20 all-season tires tested, the Primacies were among the quietest and had the best wet and dry braking numbers -- by a considerable margin.


View attachment 28165View attachment 28166

The downside is that they're not particularly efficient. Unless there is are erroneous entries on both the Lucid spec sheets and the order configurator, the EPA range for the Primacies is the same as the Pirelli PZ5's, although the Primacies are on smaller wheels that also look to be more aerodynamic than the largest wheels.
I saw that test from The Tire Rack too. I considered the Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ instead, as those are also available in 20-22" sizes for Gravity. (I've considered buying a Gravity with the 20/21" wheels, and eventually replacing the tires with the Quadrac Pro+ if I didn't like the Hankooks.) They don't seem to handle as well as the Primacy, but may have less noise and better efficiency, and they seem to get better grip on snow and ice. But there are no dealers selling Vredestein in my area. So, I tried the Primacy, and I like them a lot. The ~8% loss of range compared to the Hankooks seems like a good tradeoff to me for the much better handling and safety.
 
This tracks the test results from Tire Rack on the Primacies. In fact, of 20 all-season tires tested, the Primacies were among the quietest and had the best wet and dry braking numbers -- by a considerable margin.

Why is the warranty halved by having different rim sizes, especially since this was described as a purely cosmetic decision? Is this something like drive wheels get more wear, and different sizes means they don't get rotated?
  • Treadwear: 6 Years / 55,000 Miles (H- & V-Speed Rated) 6 Years / 45,000 Miles (W-Speed Rated) Half mileage for rear if different size than front
 
I saw that test from The Tire Rack too. I considered the Vredestein Quatrac Pro+ instead, as those are also available in 20-22" sizes for Gravity. (I've considered buying a Gravity with the 20/21" wheels, and eventually replacing the tires with the Quadrac Pro+ if I didn't like the Hankooks.) They don't seem to handle as well as the Primacy, but may have less noise and better efficiency, and they seem to get better grip on snow and ice. But there are no dealers selling Vredestein in my area. So, I tried the Primacy, and I like them a lot. The ~8% loss of range compared to the Hankooks seems like a good tradeoff to me for the much better handling and safety.

I recently put the Quatrac Pro+ on our Honda Odyssey because I was tired of having no traction from takeoff at stops on wet roads. (The combination of the vehicle's weight, rearward load shift under acceleration, and front-wheel drive can make acceleration traction a real issue.) It's not a car in which I'm going to test any limits deliberately, but the Vredesteins do have considerably more grip in straight-line traction. I have not noticed any unpleasant traits.

(Tire Rack will ship Vredesteins to pretty much any tire chain store if you can't find them locally. They even shipped the Quatracs to our Honda dealer for mounting.)

I have always loved Continental's DW and DWS line of tires for all-season use and was planning on mounting the DWS06 Plus on the 21/22" Gravity wheels upon delivery. But as I dug up what I could find on the Primacies -- and especially after seeing that they carry the "LM1" stamp which means they are manufacturer-tuned to Lucid's specs -- I've decided to stay with the Primacies. (Neither the DWS nor the Primacy seems to shine particularly on efficiency as near as I can tell, but hard data is hard to come by.)
 
Why is the warranty halved by having different rim sizes, especially since this was described as a purely cosmetic decision? Is this something like drive wheels get more wear, and different sizes means they don't get rotated?

Hmmm . . . I had not noticed the warranty difference.

As to why, your guess is as good as mine (or perhaps better).
 
Don't they require you to rotate tires to get the full warranty? If so the lack of rotation ( front to rear) may account for warranty differences. Why only the rear tires have half the warranty is a mystery.
 
This tracks the test results from Tire Rack on the Primacies. In fact, of 20 all-season tires tested, the Primacies were among the quietest and had the best wet and dry braking numbers -- by a considerable margin.


View attachment 28165View attachment 28166

The downside is that they're not particularly efficient. Unless there is are erroneous entries on both the Lucid spec sheets and the order configurator, the EPA range for the Primacies is the same as the Pirelli PZ5's, although the Primacies are on smaller wheels that also look to be more aerodynamic than the largest wheels.
I haven't seen the Tire Rack tests before. But, they do confirm my sense of what the best tire for me is: CrossClimate 2. I'm looking for a tire that performs great in the snow, while still being perfectly acceptable in warmer conditions. I do a lot of driving between San Francisco and Lake Tahoe, and one road trip commonly includes both snowy conditions and 70 degree driving. I've configured my GT with the smallest wheel choice, and I figure there's a good chance that I'll replace the stock rubber with a 3PMSF rated tire as soon as winter hits.
 
This is sort of out of left field to this line of discussion, but I've posted elsewhere about all the excitement generated in some quarters by how great and rapidly-evolving Chinese EVs are and my own reservations about Chinese products, especially metallurgy when it comes to cars, and what their durability will be.

There are several good European tire reviewers who test a lot of tires we don't have in the U.S., the best of them being Jonathan Benson of "Tyre Reviews". It's almost laughable how bad Chinese tires are in most of these tests. In a recent comparison test Benson did on wet braking, the car with the Chinese tires was still traveling at 70 kph at the point the best tire in the test had hauled the car down to a full stop. He concluded the test, which covered a range of performance attributes, by pronouncing the Chinese tire downright unsafe.
 
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