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Kyle shares more about Lucid Cosmos

Bobby said:
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the i5 and i7.
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7 series will be discontinued. There won’t be an i7.

Audi just discontinued the A8, Lexus LS is no more, as is the Jag XJ. Merc might still keep their flagship S class.
 
gaskiller said:
7 series will be discontinued. There won’t be an i7.

Audi just discontinued the A8, Lexus LS is no more, as is the Jag XJ. Merc might still keep their flagship S class.
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I'm not quite sure where you are getting your information, but much of what you said is incorrect. BMW actually revealed the new 7 series very recently. Mercedes has already announced the 2027 S-Class.
www.caranddriver.com

The BMW 7-Series Is Getting a Facelift and a New Teaser Gives Us Our First Look

BMW's flagship is getting a mid-cycle refresh that's expected to include a new exterior design and a seriously updated interior.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
 
Bobby said:
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the i5 and i7.
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The Germans are good at throwing in a bunch of tech for their price points and now it seems they're finally catching up on the powertrain, efficiency, charging performance, etc. On the tech side, you just need to look at the i3 and iX3 to see the HUD and that informational screen that goes across the entire dash. How practical all the stuff they throw in is questionable but it certainly will attract the "This is cool" buyer (Mercedes night club lighting anyone).

If Lucid is following the Tesla path of minimalism in the midsize then they really need to get a grip on the software and setting themselves apart with pushing updates \ features out regularly via OTA's etc. to make people feel their vehicles are continually improving. They also need to deliver a vehicle that is 90% feature complete and not make people wait 1 to 2 years after purchase to get basic things. BMW, Audi, etc. are getting their feet wet with OTA's but they still tend to be a little slower at releasing them so this is an area where Lucid could potentially have the upper edge on them.

As much as people gripe about FSD it seems to be Tesla's Achilles heel on why people buy into them and often refuse to move to other vehicles that have better build quality and more bells and whistles etc. Basically, you go minimalist then you need to knock it out the park from the get go because if you don't people don't have a plethora of other things in the vehicle to keep them distracted from complaining.
 
The KSA factory is needed for multiple reasons. It is much better positioned for shipping to Europe. It supports KSA desire to diversify their economy. It has different supply chain options.

The AMP-1 facility is also needed. Lucid has domestic battery production sourcing agreements. Some of those materials contracts don't start for a while. But Trump's focus on removing EV incentives has also removed key motivators for domestic production.

With two factories for a brand new car, it makes sense dial in one factory and then apply the knowledge to bringing the second one on line.

So to me the ordering makes sense (they had to choose one to go first) and the 6 months or so delay at AMP-1 is quite reasonable.
 
Bobby said:
I'm not quite sure where you are getting your information, but much of what you said is incorrect. BMW actually revealed the new 7 series very recently. Mercedes has already announced the 2027 S-Class.
www.caranddriver.com

The BMW 7-Series Is Getting a Facelift and a New Teaser Gives Us Our First Look

BMW's flagship is getting a mid-cycle refresh that's expected to include a new exterior design and a seriously updated interior.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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To be fair, those are referred to as minor facelifts. They are not new platforms, engines, wheelbases, etc. BUT, I agree it would be hard to imagine BMW without a Neue Klasse 7 Series or a new generation S Class in the next 3 or 4 years. The large sedan is still a niche that the big guys want to be represented in - halo cars. I don't think they are going the way of the dinosaurs...
 
HC_79 said:
I just saw Kyles video on the i3. On paper it looks impressive and with the iX3 and now i3, Lucid has some serious completion on its hands when it comes to the tech \ charging performance etc. They can't afford to mess the Cosmos launch up nor deliver a bunch of "coming soon" caveats at the launch when it comes to software \ features etc.
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One issue I see immediately with the decision to go single screen on Cosmos is that this will necessitate yet another unique UI layer for midsize. They can’t simply run Gravity’s software without some serious rethinking of the interaction layer, at least.

This worries me, given we’re talking eight months to ship, and it’s not like Gravity doesn’t still need attention.

I’d say software, despite coming a long way in the last six months, is still a major risk vector for the Cosmos launch.

They have “wigetized” a lot of the UI components, but the layout for Cosmos is going to be quite different. I hope it works out.

I hope at least they can directly port things like mobile key
 
I’m not a software guy. Is it really that big of a thing to just change where buttons and displays are shown? As a layman, it would seem to be like changing the layout of an iPhone when turning it sideways. Buttons are in different places, screen items are in different portions of the display, but when you push the icon, it does the same thing.

Too simple?
 
illopp00 said:
I think the only reason for AMP-2 is real commitments to the Saudi Govt to deliver on their backlog of 100K cars and hedging the US political and anti-EV climate along with tariffs. That buys them some time to sort out production, get that facility running (to recoup overhead capex costs) and then import to USA. Once they figure out the actual demand in US they ca start spinning up production. The import tariffs from Saudia are 10%, which is not outrageous and compensated by the fact they can get other parts (like Chinese batteries or ADAS sensors) much cheaper.
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While this won't be said in Lucid investor materials, one of the main reasons they've started production in KSA is because they're trying to build a sizeable automotive manufacturing hub in King Abdullah Economic City. To do that they need tier 1 suppliers, and to get those they need manufacturers that will buy from those suppliers. Lucid was the first automotive company to launch production there and that has allowed them to get other players, namely Hyundai, to build their own production facilities. It also has attracted suppliers. Their hope is that Lucid's growth, along with Hyundai's upcoming plant, will drive more tier 1 suppliers to set up shop there, ultimately making the location more attractive to other companies as well.

Why does this matter to us? As they get more suppliers in that area, costs go down.
 
johnse said:
The KSA factory is needed for multiple reasons. It is much better positioned for shipping to Europe. It supports KSA desire to diversify their economy. It has different supply chain options.

The AMP-1 facility is also needed. Lucid has domestic battery production sourcing agreements. Some of those materials contracts don't start for a while. But Trump's focus on removing EV incentives has also removed key motivators for domestic production.

With two factories for a brand new car, it makes sense dial in one factory and then apply the knowledge to bringing the second one on line.

So to me the ordering makes sense (they had to choose one to go first) and the 6 months or so delay at AMP-1 is quite reasonable.
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I recall during the investor event Q&A Marc said initial production will be from the Saudi Arabia plant, but eventually, the Arizona plant will be assembling midsize
 
tmichael said:
I’m not a software guy. Is it really that big of a thing to just change where buttons and displays are shown? As a layman, it would seem to be like changing the layout of an iPhone when turning it sideways. Buttons are in different places, screen items are in different portions of the display, but when you push the icon, it does the same thing.

Too simple?
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Yes. It is much more complicated than that.

And the reason your phone can do that is because someone spent a lot of time writing the software to make it able to do that.

We stand on the shoulders of giants, and it is indeed turtles all the way down.
 
tmichael said:
I’m not a software guy. Is it really that big of a thing to just change where buttons and displays are shown? As a layman, it would seem to be like changing the layout of an iPhone when turning it sideways. Buttons are in different places, screen items are in different portions of the display, but when you push the icon, it does the same thing.

Too simple?
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It depends on how scalable, modular, and efficient they've made the software architecture. If done right, theoretically then yes you could move them around. If done wrong... well I feel sorry for the team who gets assigned to it. I do want to make it clear that my software experience is not related to cars.

You'd be surprised how many small requests I get from stakeholders that explode into needing to re-write the architecture 😅
On the flip side, it does get funny when a stakeholder thinks they're asking for something complex, but all we needed to do in our end was basically like flipping a switch or two and show the results 🤣
 
It's not just about button location. It's about the entire user experience (UX). The one long screen means Lucid (and Mercedes Benz who does something similar) has to rethink everything. Since the infotainment is touchscreen, it needs to be close enough to the driver so they can made changes to anything and everything. Without the Pilot Panel, Lucid has to redesign their entire UI because it was far more square than what looks to be a taller than in the Gravity but still narrower single screen. Buttons can't be the same size. Nor can the text.

This also means the instrument cluster is pushed closer to the steering wheel, which is how you get the squircle steering wheel but it can still block the lower third of the instrument cluster for some seating positions, which means the bottom third of the instrument cluster can't contain vital information. Look at Gravity's instrument cluster, the bottom third of it is pretty sparse.

You also want the travel distance for the driver's eyes to be as little as possible so they can get their eyes back on the road. See the new BMW iX3 and Volvo EX60 that put the instrument cluster right below the windshield. A HUD can solve this but a lot of people find it distracting, and it increases cost since you now have to design and build 4 different dashboards: left or right hand drive and HUD or no HUD. Lucid was pretty explicit that they went with this single long screen as a way to save costs with a less complicated dashboard design so it sounds like a HUD probably won't even be offered.

And then, while you're getting the basics down, you also want to give your software a bit of character. Watching the R2 (and the iX3) infotainment in action shows how lackluster Lucid's software design is.

Side note: The halo dials or whatever they're called on the R2 are pretty damn clever. They let the driver control way more functions than they normally could on a traditional 4-way d-pad.
 
RajD said:
My question as well. That's a huge battery for a car that size. If Lucid gets 100kWh in Cosmos, that would get to 450mi range. But now, I think they almost have to offer this premium option, with maybe a smaller base trim battery. It will be a decision about whether you want the amazing packaging of Cosmos versus a small frunk and more limited iX3 or i3, and what aesthetic and ownership experience you prefer... could be trouble for Lucid if pitted against BMW in this way.
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I doubt they are. The IX3 50 trim (108kwhr) is selling base price of $70900 Euros coming out of Hungary. So, a 108kwhr battery IX3 in the US will be $100K after options and tariffs.
 
I just configured one in BMW Germany for sh*ts and giggles. Pretty low spec on options. Definitely not a Cosmos competitor unless Lucid wants to do a Cosmos GT which they will keep to 415 EPA so it just comes in under the Air Pure....

1773886842102.webp
 
illopp00 said:
I doubt they are. The IX3 50 trim (108kwhr) is selling base price of $70900 Euros coming out of Hungary. So, a 108kwhr battery IX3 in the US will be $100K after options and tariffs.
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I agree, I don't think midsize will be going up against the i3/ix3 unless we're doing something like a fully loaded Cosmos (or maybe a tri-motor Sapphire level trim) vs a base i3, etc. I also doubt we'll see a 108kwh battery pack on Cosmos considering the goal is to reduce costs
 
Need4Sleep said:
I agree, I don't think midsize will be going up against the i3/ix3 unless we're doing something like a fully loaded Cosmos (or maybe a tri-motor Sapphire level trim) vs a base i3, etc. I also doubt we'll see a 108kwh battery pack on Cosmos considering the goal is to reduce costs
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Cosmos will get as many or more miles from an 82 or 92 kWh pack than the BMW will get, anyway. Better drag coefficient, lighter. Better motor efficiency.

And yes. Cheaper.

I think people are underestimating how much of a payoff many years of doing things the hard way engineering-wise is about to pay off for Lucid.

They just have to execute. (That's the big IF, not the car itself.)
 
joec said:
Cosmos will get as many or more miles from an 82 or 92 kWh pack than the BMW will get, anyway. Better drag coefficient, lighter. Better motor efficiency.

And yes. Cheaper.

I think people are underestimating how much of a payoff many years of doing things the hard way engineering-wise is about to pay off for Lucid.

They just have to execute. (That's the big IF, not the car itself.)
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Definitely, I don't doubt that Lucid will get impressive mileage out of a smaller battery pack, but I'm not sure it it'll be like 440 miles on the EPA test cycle. If they do manage to get that range (even on a Grand Touring trim), then Lucid accomplished something truly special, assuming they execute properly
 
If Lucid can price it about the same as the R2 (without Lidar and upgraded cpu) with a similar battery size and more range that would already be a huge win.

The compute hardware that's supposed to be in the Cosmos/Earth is slightly more powerful than in the upcoming Rivian. Speculation is that autonomy capable R2s might cost $5-10k more.
 
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