Handling between 3 models impressions?

[mikecronis]

I'm potentially in the market for a GT and have been studying the car for about a year, watching the configuration changes, etc.

I was able to (somehow) test-drive a 2023 GT for about 10 minutes around a parking lot.
Vehicle handling and feel is very important to me. The luxury was on-par with my Cadillac CT6 Platinum, which is good, and acceleration of the Grand Touring was on-par with my supercharged Corvette Grand Sport, which is good. I find my CT6 and C6 to both be "nimble" feeling, the former due to the All-Wheel-Steering setup. My C6 is built to a conservative 640hp M6 and I find its steering to also be nimble as it is purpose-built.

I really study cars for a long time, read the manuals cover-to-cover, memorize the shop-manuals, perform a lot of my own maintenance, find the forum-easter-eggs of secret modes in the settings, etc. I'm really into cars. I've owned some impressive ones: Lotus Elise Touring, Pontiac Firehawk, Honda Prelude Si in Japan (left-hand-drive manual), Oldsmobile Omega with the Iron Duke engine, etc.

It was my opinion the GT felt like steering a freight-train and was artificially affected by the steering wheel programming fly-by-wire setup. I found the brakes to be 2-segmented where there was a definite spot where the mechanical calipers took over from the regenerative braking, it was pretty obvious about 1/3rd press-down each time and repeatable. Some say the GT feels like, "Steering a bank vault". I have no disagreement. The three modes did not seem to affect the ponderous weight of it and reminded me of 1980's Rolls Royce cars of the past or a fully-loaded 1990's U-Haul with 250k miles comparatively.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, it just.. is.

My question is: I've heard that the Touring feels more nimble and responsive to steering input, and lateral-g's are a bit higher. I suspect in-part the 200 pound weight difference is a key factor of the quantity of batteries. Has anyone driven the Touring (or even Pure) against the GT and noticed a significant difference in handling feel? I would likely opt for the 19" tires which due to sidewall thickness likely affect roll-in but add plushness. It's simply a matter of opinion I'd love from this fantastic forum.

 

[momo3605]

Yes! See this thread:

Thread 'Drive Comparison, GT, Touring, Pure??!'

Dec 4, 2023

My only hesitation is that, when i test drove the GT, it felt noticeably heavier and less nimble than the Touring.

I… have not felt that. The difference is only a couple battery packs; shouldn’t affect how the weight feels very much on an already heavy car.

I can tell you the difference in HP only really feels relevant on the highway, at speed, when trying to pass someone.

• borski
• Replies: 69
• Forum: Driving Dynamics

• 

TLDR: yes the touring feels much lighter, nimble and better handling than the GT at least to me

 

[Wolfman]

Have a Touring but drove a GT and a couple of Pure models (metal roof), RWD and AWD.

The Pure wins on a lighter and more agile feel while I felt the Touring and the GT drove rather similar, apart from the power.
The steering is the same on all cars and feels the same as well.
The Lucid beats the other EV’s but a 5000lbs sports sedan but will feel less nimble than a 1800lbs lighter Corvette.
That said, a GT will smoke your Corvette any day, supercharged or not in the quarter mile and 60-130.
The GT goes 170mph and drives very composed at this speed, so if you like to go quick, it is a fun car to be in

 

[Batteryman]

I'm potentially in the market for a GT and have been studying the car for about a year, watching the configuration changes, etc.

I was able to (somehow) test-drive a 2023 GT for about 10 minutes around a parking lot.
Vehicle handling and feel is very important to me. The luxury was on-par with my Cadillac CT6 Platinum, which is good, and acceleration of the Grand Touring was on-par with my supercharged Corvette Grand Sport, which is good. I find my CT6 and C6 to both be "nimble" feeling, the former due to the All-Wheel-Steering setup. My C6 is built to a conservative 640hp M6 and I find its steering to also be nimble as it is purpose-built.

I really study cars for a long time, read the manuals cover-to-cover, memorize the shop-manuals, perform a lot of my own maintenance, find the forum-easter-eggs of secret modes in the settings, etc. I'm really into cars. I've owned some impressive ones: Lotus Elise Touring, Pontiac Firehawk, Honda Prelude Si in Japan (left-hand-drive manual), Oldsmobile Omega with the Iron Duke engine, etc.

It was my opinion the GT felt like steering a freight-train and was artificially affected by the steering wheel programming fly-by-wire setup. I found the brakes to be 2-segmented where there was a definite spot where the mechanical calipers took over from the regenerative braking, it was pretty obvious about 1/3rd press-down each time and repeatable. Some say the GT feels like, "Steering a bank vault". I have no disagreement. The three modes did not seem to affect the ponderous weight of it and reminded me of 1980's Rolls Royce cars of the past or a fully-loaded 1990's U-Haul with 250k miles comparatively.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, it just.. is.

My question is: I've heard that the Touring feels more nimble and responsive to steering input, and lateral-g's are a bit higher. I suspect in-part the 200 pound weight difference is a key factor of the quantity of batteries. Has anyone driven the Touring (or even Pure) against the GT and noticed a significant difference in handling feel? I would likely opt for the 19" tires which due to sidewall thickness likely affect roll-in but add plushness. It's simply a matter of opinion I'd love from this fantastic forum.

If you want steering feel, and a Lucid, Pure is best. If you “ really” want the best steering feel, don’t buy an EV. They are too heavy. But in EV.s I would recommend a Porsche Taycan or Lucid. But with Taycan you lose on software, space, frunk, range, OTA updates.

 

[mikecronis]

Excellent responses, thank you! Lots of common-sense here, which is why this forum and the people on it are so awesome!
I've owned 3 EVs before, a Cadillac ELR and a Gen1 and Gen2 Chevy Volt (not quite hybrids because power only comes from the battery, the engine only provides electricity to the battery packs, so the State of Colorado classifies it [and charges for] EV tax [pun intended]). I found all 3 to be lively and quick in comparison, with smart and sharp turn-in and crisp acceleration. The Lucid I drove felt sluggish on all counts, though I was in "smooth" mode.

I FELT that my 0-35 mph in my Corvette is faster, easily, especially if in launch-mode than the GT.
At faster speeds, by my "butt-dyno", I found them to be "similar". My C6 with the Stage 3 supercharger 0-60 is 3.4 sec. repeatable, +/- 0.2 mph, and my 0-100 mph is 6.9 sec (on paper, I've only got 7.2).
The GT supposedly gets 0-60 in 3.0 seconds (probably also in launch-mode, which I didn't try, so probably closer to 3.4 sec. in "smooth") and 0-100 mph in 6.2 sec. (again probably in launch-mode, but I was in smooth so maybe a tad slower again).

Not exactly "smoked" but significant enough, and in smooth, non-launch-mode is similar. I can only attest to my dyno and trap times on my C6 "The Julie Newmar" and butt-dyno in "smooth" on the GT.

None of this really matters as the Lucid Air GT is "quick" regardless.

Handling is another matter. I found steering was heavy and resistant. Because steering is "fly by wire" this was dialed-in by Lucid and artificial and has no steering "feel". A Lotus Elise is manual steering and is "all the feel, all the time". You literally feel a pebble through the steering column. It's punishing and rewarding at the same time. I found anything over 100 miles travel to be fairly exhausting with all the analog, tactile input. The Lucid feels to be the opposite of that by my one-time driving experience.

I have an opportunity to "Turo" rent an Air Touring in-town so I'll give it a shot. The GT felt like steering a Spanish Galleon, though arguable perception and reality are disconnected.

I'll try the Air Touring to see if it's more "lively" as lateral-g's are closer to my CT6 Cadillac (0.88g) which is acceptable at 0.91g's (closer to a Pontiac Firehawk WU6 or SS Camaro of the early 2000's).

Wish there was a "coast-mode" as I found the grabby deceleration in the softest setting to be aggressive and dangerous on ice, potentially. The Tesla S-Plaid and Model 3 are just the worst on that front and completely unacceptable. I also found Teslas to be more like a home appliance and sitting in a dentist's waiting room. Blah. The Volts and ELR were not as grabby and some coding updates smoothed-out the transition between brake-pad and regen transition feel. The Lucid's is notchy and separate and distinct and you can feel when the brake pedal engages the pads distinctly and quite obviously. I think some programming can smooth that out too.

 

[momo3605]

The GT supposedly gets 0-60 in 3.0 seconds (probably also in launch-mode, which I didn't try, so probably closer to 3.4 sec. in "smooth") and 0-100 mph in 6.2 sec. (again probably in launch-mode, but I was in smooth so maybe a tad slower again).

Aha well here’s your issue. The power is reduced to half in smooth/swift mode. It’s probably closer to 4.5-5seconds in smooth. If it felt like 3.5, prepare to feel blown away in Sprint

 

[mikecronis]

Aha well here’s your issue. The power is reduced to half in smooth/swift mode. It’s probably closer to 4.5-5seconds in smooth. If it felt like 3.5, prepare to feel blown away in Sprint

That explains quite a lot, then! If you set it to "swift or sprint" modes, when you exit and come back to the car, does it remember your settings or do you have to re-activate it?

 

[momo3605]

That explains quite a lot, then! If you set it to "swift or sprint" modes, when you exit and come back to the car, does it remember your settings or do you have to re-activate it?

Unfortunately it doesn’t save settings. But it’s the big 3 buttons in the middle of the pilot panel when you start the car up. So it’s easy to change modes

 

[Neurio]

Smooth has

Aha well here’s your issue. The power is reduced to half in smooth/swift mode. It’s probably closer to 4.5-5seconds in smooth. If it felt like 3.5, prepare to feel blown away in Sprint

It's actually 1/3 reduction in HP and about 30% reduction in torque between Sprint and Smooth. Swift ups the torque without increasing the HP. There are other tweaks to the suspension, handling and steering between the modes too

Post in thread 'Drive Comparison, GT, Touring, Pure??!' https://lucidowners.com/threads/drive-comparison-gt-touring-pure.7308/post-179155

 

[momo3605]

Smooth has
It's actually 1/3 reduction in HP and about 30% reduction in torque between Sprint and Smooth. Swift ups the torque without increasing the HP. There are other tweaks to the suspension, handling and steering between the modes too

Post in thread 'Drive Comparison, GT, Touring, Pure??!' https://lucidowners.com/threads/drive-comparison-gt-touring-pure.7308/post-179155

Thanks for the clarification. Still pretty significant

 

[sdlucid]

I never sat in Touring or GT, but the seats on my Pure AWD is not that great for spirited driving. For vehicle that advertises as sporty, I just wish that they kept more side bolstering for all trims.

 

[JGard18]

I own a Touring and currently have a GT loaner (both with 19" wheels). For day to day driving they feel incredibly similar. If you're pushing them harder, then there's a slight difference, imo. But I also think they both handle great for what they are and am happy with the feel overall.

 

[AirPlur]

I've logged almost the same number of miles behind the wheel of GT loaners as my Pure AWD, and while launch mode in the GT never gets old (especially when they aren't your tires), I absolutely prefer the dynamics of my Pure. It doesn't make sense how a 4% reduction in weight can make that difference, but something certainly does. If the RWD I'm planning on getting to replace my AWD is as good as they (including Rawlinson) say, I'm very, very much looking forward to that.

 

[Lucken]

Excellent responses, thank you! Lots of common-sense here, which is why this forum and the people on it are so awesome!
I've owned 3 EVs before, a Cadillac ELR and a Gen1 and Gen2 Chevy Volt (not quite hybrids because power only comes from the battery, the engine only provides electricity to the battery packs, so the State of Colorado classifies it [and charges for] EV tax [pun intended]). I found all 3 to be lively and quick in comparison, with smart and sharp turn-in and crisp acceleration. The Lucid I drove felt sluggish on all counts, though I was in "smooth" mode.

I FELT that my 0-35 mph in my Corvette is faster, easily, especially if in launch-mode than the GT.
At faster speeds, by my "butt-dyno", I found them to be "similar". My C6 with the Stage 3 supercharger 0-60 is 3.4 sec. repeatable, +/- 0.2 mph, and my 0-100 mph is 6.9 sec (on paper, I've only got 7.2).
The GT supposedly gets 0-60 in 3.0 seconds (probably also in launch-mode, which I didn't try, so probably closer to 3.4 sec. in "smooth") and 0-100 mph in 6.2 sec. (again probably in launch-mode, but I was in smooth so maybe a tad slower again).

Not exactly "smoked" but significant enough, and in smooth, non-launch-mode is similar. I can only attest to my dyno and trap times on my C6 "The Julie Newmar" and butt-dyno in "smooth" on the GT.

None of this really matters as the Lucid Air GT is "quick" regardless.

Handling is another matter. I found steering was heavy and resistant. Because steering is "fly by wire" this was dialed-in by Lucid and artificial and has no steering "feel". A Lotus Elise is manual steering and is "all the feel, all the time". You literally feel a pebble through the steering column. It's punishing and rewarding at the same time. I found anything over 100 miles travel to be fairly exhausting with all the analog, tactile input. The Lucid feels to be the opposite of that by my one-time driving experience.

I have an opportunity to "Turo" rent an Air Touring in-town so I'll give it a shot. The GT felt like steering a Spanish Galleon, though arguable perception and reality are disconnected.

I'll try the Air Touring to see if it's more "lively" as lateral-g's are closer to my CT6 Cadillac (0.88g) which is acceptable at 0.91g's (closer to a Pontiac Firehawk WU6 or SS Camaro of the early 2000's).

Wish there was a "coast-mode" as I found the grabby deceleration in the softest setting to be aggressive and dangerous on ice, potentially. The Tesla S-Plaid and Model 3 are just the worst on that front and completely unacceptable. I also found Teslas to be more like a home appliance and sitting in a dentist's waiting room. Blah. The Volts and ELR were not as grabby and some coding updates smoothed-out the transition between brake-pad and regen transition feel. The Lucid's is notchy and separate and distinct and you can feel when the brake pedal engages the pads distinctly and quite obviously. I think some programming can smooth that out too.

I’m usually pretty good with my predictions when reading posts like this. So let me go out on a limb and say the Lucid is likely not the car for you. Rightly or wrongly you begin this journey with too many preconceived notions and almost all are negative. It’s very difficult to stay objective from a starting point like that. I’m not being critical, just realistic.

Good luck with whatever you wind up with.

 

[momo3605]

I've logged almost the same number of miles behind the wheel of GT loaners as my Pure AWD, and while launch mode in the GT never gets old (especially when they aren't your tires), I absolutely prefer the dynamics of my Pure. It doesn't make sense how a 4% reduction in weight can make that difference, but something certainly does. If the RWD I'm planning on getting to replace my AWD is as good as they (including Rawlinson) say, I'm very, very much looking forward to that.

Agreed. Touring/Pure AWD definitely have better dynamics. I am curious how the 10% lighter than Pure AWD…Pure RWD handles..I haven’t driven one of those yet

 

[AirDoll]

I'm potentially in the market for a GT and have been studying the car for about a year, watching the configuration changes, etc.

I was able to (somehow) test-drive a 2023 GT for about 10 minutes around a parking lot.
Vehicle handling and feel is very important to me. The luxury was on-par with my Cadillac CT6 Platinum, which is good, and acceleration of the Grand Touring was on-par with my supercharged Corvette Grand Sport, which is good. I find my CT6 and C6 to both be "nimble" feeling, the former due to the All-Wheel-Steering setup. My C6 is built to a conservative 640hp M6 and I find its steering to also be nimble as it is purpose-built.

I really study cars for a long time, read the manuals cover-to-cover, memorize the shop-manuals, perform a lot of my own maintenance, find the forum-easter-eggs of secret modes in the settings, etc. I'm really into cars. I've owned some impressive ones: Lotus Elise Touring, Pontiac Firehawk, Honda Prelude Si in Japan (left-hand-drive manual), Oldsmobile Omega with the Iron Duke engine, etc.

It was my opinion the GT felt like steering a freight-train and was artificially affected by the steering wheel programming fly-by-wire setup. I found the brakes to be 2-segmented where there was a definite spot where the mechanical calipers took over from the regenerative braking, it was pretty obvious about 1/3rd press-down each time and repeatable. Some say the GT feels like, "Steering a bank vault". I have no disagreement. The three modes did not seem to affect the ponderous weight of it and reminded me of 1980's Rolls Royce cars of the past or a fully-loaded 1990's U-Haul with 250k miles comparatively.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, it just.. is.

My question is: I've heard that the Touring feels more nimble and responsive to steering input, and lateral-g's are a bit higher. I suspect in-part the 200 pound weight difference is a key factor of the quantity of batteries. Has anyone driven the Touring (or even Pure) against the GT and noticed a significant difference in handling feel? I would likely opt for the 19" tires which due to sidewall thickness likely affect roll-in but add plushness. It's simply a matter of opinion I'd love from this fantastic forum.

“I was able to (somehow) test-drive a 2023 GT for about 10 minutes around a parking lot.”

I would highly recommend test driving the different trim levels more thoroughly than in a parking lot so you can feel for yourself.

FWIW when I try and explain the handling of my GT, I use the terms “planted and floaty at the same time” (super technical, I know ) So although it might have felt heavy to you, the handling and performance says otherwise. Performance definitely varies between the different tire/rim options, so make sure you test drive with the ones you’re interested in.

I’ve driven all trim levels (except GTP) and they all feel a little different, but all are great in their own way.

 

[mikecronis]

Wow, this is great feedback!

Because the Lucid isolates the user pretty significantly, the perception of speed and handling is distorted in a positive, comforting sort of way.

This is sort of like riding a Ninja 250 motorcycle at 45 mph and it feels like a blast when you aren't doing much, but a Honda Superhawk VTR 1000 only has that same feeling at, say 145 mph. At 45, that Honda feels "sleepy".

The perception of feeling is a strange one to explain, but those who have owned various vehicles and types can understand. I suspect my "perception" of the ride was not the actual "physics" of it. I got it up to 65 mph rather quickly in the back of a parking-lot with the dealer in the car with me, urging me to "give 'er the beans" but it felt "uneventful". I gave it some sharp turns and though ponderous, felt "uneventful" but in reality it might have been a feet of automotive wizardry going on.

I'll take out the Air Touring and give my impressions and "monkey around" with the 3 modes. I think I might be more inclined for a Dream-P or a GT-P (rarer) as they seem to be universally lauded as being more "frisky". I mean, I had an ELR and 2 Firehawks. I like Unicorns.

 

[illopp00]

I never sat in Touring or GT, but the seats on my Pure AWD is not that great for spirited driving. For vehicle that advertises as sporty, I just wish that they kept more side bolstering for all trims.

Yes you do need those 20-way seats, I got them in the Touring mostly beacause I wanted ventilation, but you can get a snug fit quite well wit the adjustable bolsters, thigh and tilt.

 

[AirPlur]

Agreed. Touring/Pure AWD definitely have better dynamics. I am curious how the 10% lighter than Pure AWD…Pure RWD handles..I haven’t driven one of those yet

Will report back in a month or so

 

[tonybot]

Wow, this is great feedback!

Because the Lucid isolates the user pretty significantly, the perception of speed and handling is distorted in a positive, comforting sort of way.

This is sort of like riding a Ninja 250 motorcycle at 45 mph and it feels like a blast when you aren't doing much, but a Honda Superhawk VTR 1000 only has that same feeling at, say 145 mph. At 45, that Honda feels "sleepy".

The perception of feeling is a strange one to explain, but those who have owned various vehicles and types can understand. I suspect my "perception" of the ride was not the actual "physics" of it. I got it up to 65 mph rather quickly in the back of a parking-lot with the dealer in the car with me, urging me to "give 'er the beans" but it felt "uneventful". I gave it some sharp turns and though ponderous, felt "uneventful" but in reality it might have been a feet of automotive wizardry going on.

I'll take out the Air Touring and give my impressions and "monkey around" with the 3 modes. I think I might be more inclined for a Dream-P or a GT-P (rarer) as they seem to be universally lauded as being more "frisky". I mean, I had an ELR and 2 Firehawks. I like Unicorns.

If possible, test drive the pure RWD as well.