VW investing up to 5 billion in Rivian.. per NY Times

[skomarla]

its probably behind a pay wall, but https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/25/...ian-vw-investment.html?searchResultPosition=1

"VW and Rivian, a maker of electric trucks that has struggled to increase sales and break even, will work together on software and other technologies."

"Volkswagen said it would initially invest $1 billion in a new joint venture, and over time increase that to as much as $5 billion. The infusion represents a big vote of confidence in Rivian, which loses tens of thousands of dollars on each vehicle it sells."

 

[HC_79]

Rivian shares soar 30% after Volkswagen takes $1 billion stake

Volkswagen plans to invest up to $5 billion in electric vehicle startup Rivian, starting with an initial investment of $1 billion.

www.cnbc.com

 

[DeaneG]

VW is getting Rivian's software in return - interesting that they completely capitulated.
OTOH seeing the firmware in my Miele ovens, it may make sense to look outside Germany.

 

[segbrk]

which loses tens of thousands of dollars on each vehicle it sells

I'm so tired of seeing this nonsense in every news article about a new car company.

 

[Batteryman]

its probably behind a pay wall, but https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/25/...ian-vw-investment.html?searchResultPosition=1

"VW and Rivian, a maker of electric trucks that has struggled to increase sales and break even, will work together on software and other technologies."

"Volkswagen said it would initially invest $1 billion in a new joint venture, and over time increase that to as much as $5 billion. The infusion represents a big vote of confidence in Rivian, which loses tens of thousands of dollars on each vehicle it sells."

VW market cap is around 50-60 billion- this is 10% of their market cap!

1 billion initially, and then 4 billion only if VW is able to integrate EV architecture into its products. They haven’t actually decided on a full joint venture and won’t until 2026/2027.

Either way, this is good news for Lucid as well, puts pressure on other ICE manufacturers to make a deal. Hyundai and Toyota should be fighting for a Lucid partnership. BMW and Mercedes don’t want to be left behind! Great news for both Lucid and Rivian!

I suspect Lucid will announce soon.

This completely changes the EV market place.

 

[skomarla]

Getting Rivian's software in return - interesting.

better than VW's software going to rivian. that'd be a disaster. Audi's ICE software isn't bad perse.. was cool at one point in time. I've always been an Audi fan but i hope this provides some infusion for them

 

[HC_79]

Getting Rivian's software in return - interesting.

Step in the right direction for VW. They’ve been plagued by software issues for years. Can’t count how many times Cariad has rebooted itself to only fail again.

Rivian knocked it out the park on the Gen 2 refresh. What they managed to pull off in 2 years is impressive. For them and Lucid to launch at the same time it’s interesting to see how far Rivian has gone compared to the snail pace Lucid seems to be taking on the software front. Not only did Rivian switch to its own motors etc. it upgraded the software, computers etc. all at the same time.

 

[sdlucid]

Apart from software, Rivian is also supplying their zonal electronic tech. They claim they were able to reduce the wiring drastically with this new architecture, while improving reliability.

 

[Lucid510]

That explains the aftermarket pop in LCID

 

[RM-S8]

VW market cap is around 50-60 billion- this is 10% of their market cap!

1 billion initially, and then 4 billion only if VW is able to integrate EV architecture into its products. They haven’t actually decided on a full joint venture and won’t until 2026/2027.

Either way, this is good news for Lucid as well, puts pressure on other ICE manufacturers to make a deal. Hyundai and Toyota should be fighting for a Lucid partnership. BMW and Mercedes don’t want to be left behind! Great news for both Lucid and Rivian!

I suspect Lucid will announce soon.

This completely changes the EV market place.

Hopefull, you are correct.

 

[northernstar]

A few thoughts.
Looks they are trying to come up with something new to move away from Google in the long term.

• I guess this will be the lifeline/last chance or a final nail in the coffin for CARIAD (in-house VW/Audi/Porsche software)
• I thought Rivian's software was based on google platform?
  
  

  Yes, Rivian uses Android Automotive OS to build its software experience

  It's been suspected that Rivian is using Android for its software experience, and it's now confirmed that Rivian is using Android Automotive.

  9to5google.com
• My understanding of CARIAD SW is that they just couldn't get the new platform done for the e-tron Q6 and Macan, so they heavily relied on google platform for the time being
  
  

  Layoffs at VW's Cariad further delay software launch in Porsche, Audi models | TechCrunch

  Cariad's plan to cut 2,000 jobs further delays launch of VW's software 1.2 in Porsche Macan EV and Audi E6 E-tron by 16 to 18 months.

  techcrunch.com

 

[BS8899]

Step in the right direction for VW. They’ve been plagued by software issues for years. Can’t count how many times Cariad has rebooted itself to only fail again.

Rivian knocked it out the park on the Gen 2 refresh. What they managed to pull off in 2 years is impressive. For them and Lucid to launch at the same time it’s interesting to see how far Rivian has gone compared to the snail pace Lucid seems to be taking on the software front. Not only did Rivian switch to its own motors etc. it upgraded the software, computers etc. all at the same time.

I think this is a win-win for Rivian and VW.

I have a Lucid AGT and a R1S, when it comes to software, there is no comparison between Lucid and Rivian. Rivian's SW is not flashy but is solid, well-integrated and reliable. Rivain's dash layout is not as pretty as Lucid's. That said, all the functions worked and, after 8 months of ownership, I have yet to find something I would complain about. Lucid's SW is the exact opposite!

Overall, Rivian's infotainment system is informative and very functional. The navigation system is fast and accurate, and the search function is very informative and returns rich information (e.g., restaurants, shops, etc.). There is real-time efficiency info, which is very helpful in understanding how one's driving habits impact efficiency. It has a built-in dash cam and sentry mode. The only thing the Lucid AGT has and the Rivian doesn't are the blind-spot cameras. The Rivian does have blind-spot alerts. The Rivian does not have LIDAR. That said, its ADAS capabilities are on par or better than what's currently enabled on the Lucid. Perhaps Lucid's architecture has more "potential". But Lucid's track record on DDPro has been dismal. Lucid-diehards believe the Gravity development and advances will eventually benefit the Air. Honestly, I'd be amazed if that happens!

Today's cars, EVs or ICE, is a computer on wheels. SW is a key part of the product. I wish Lucid would take SW more seriously. Torque and horsepower win Lucid headlines in straight-line drag races. It has no relevance to everyday use and enjoyment of the car.

If Lucid doesn't get serious about SW and the whole car system integration and focuses on torque and horsepower, it will have a hard time staying in business. At best, Lucid might get relegated to be a power train component supplier to more system-oriented car manufacturers.

 

[sdlucid]

The only thing the Lucid AGT has and the Rivian doesn't are the blind-spot cameras

Your R1S will get those blind spot camera view through software update soon. Rivians Gen2 vehicles have quite a lot improvements, some of which will make their way to Gen1 vehicles too

 

[BS8899]

Your R1S will get those blind spot camera view through software update soon. Rivians Gen2 vehicles have quite a lot improvements, some of which will make their way to Gen1 vehicles too

Fantastic!

 

[HC_79]

I think this is a win-win for Rivian and VW.

I have a Lucid AGT and a R1S, when it comes to software, there is no comparison between Lucid and Rivian. Rivian's SW is not flashy but is solid, well-integrated and reliable. Rivain's dash layout is not as pretty as Lucid's. That said, all the functions worked and, after 8 months of ownership, I have yet to find something I would complain about. Lucid's SW is the exact opposite!

Overall, Rivian's infotainment system is informative and very functional. The navigation system is fast and accurate, and the search function is very informative and returns rich information (e.g., restaurants, shops, etc.). There is real-time efficiency info, which is very helpful in understanding how one's driving habits impact efficiency. It has a built-in dash cam and sentry mode. The only thing the Lucid AGT has and the Rivian doesn't are the blind-spot cameras. The Rivian does have blind-spot alerts. The Rivian does not have LIDAR. That said, its ADAS capabilities are on par or better than what's currently enabled on the Lucid. Perhaps Lucid's architecture has more "potential". But Lucid's track record on DDPro has been dismal. Lucid-diehards believe the Gravity development and advances will eventually benefit the Air. Honestly, I'd be amazed if that happens!

Today's cars, EVs or ICE, is a computer on wheels. SW is a key part of the product. I wish Lucid would take SW more seriously. Torque and horsepower win Lucid headlines in straight-line drag races. It has no relevance to everyday use and enjoyment of the car.

If Lucid doesn't get serious about SW and the whole car system integration and focuses on torque and horsepower, it will have a hard time staying in business. At best, Lucid might get relegated to be a power train component supplier to more system-oriented car manufacturers.

Quite sad to see that both Lucid and Rivian run on Android Automotive and see what Rivian has been able to do vs. Lucid.

Rivian showed off the new Gen 2 UI this month and have told Gen 1 users they can expect an OTA in a month. Meanwhile, UX 3.0 in some variant for the Air........ *crickets* from Lucid

 

[DreamTour]

I think this is a good move for VW (actually the most important thing is how it breaks through the not made here stigma of corp politics. (And good step for Rivian too to get some more runway / traction / shared dev costs)

I'd love to see the hard knocks version of wolfsburg / irvine technical collaboration. Let's just say i don't expect rainbows and unicorns when the two engineering teams meet to collaborate lol. Someone had to hurt some feelings at VW to say we can't get it done in house so we're gonna go outside to get the expertise.

 

[cgm9999]

I have a Lucid AGT and a R1S, when it comes to software, there is no comparison between Lucid and Rivian. Rivian's SW is not flashy but is solid, well-integrated and reliable. Rivain's dash layout is not as pretty as Lucid's. That said, all the functions worked and, after 8 months of ownership, I have yet to find something I would complain about. Lucid's SW is the exact opposite!

Overall, Rivian's infotainment system is informative and very functional. The navigation system is fast and accurate, and the search function is very informative and returns rich information (e.g., restaurants, shops, etc.). There is real-time efficiency info, which is very helpful in understanding how one's driving habits impact efficiency. It has a built-in dash cam and sentry mode. The only thing the Lucid AGT has and the Rivian doesn't are the blind-spot cameras. The Rivian does have blind-spot alerts. The Rivian does not have LIDAR. That said, its ADAS capabilities are on par or better than what's currently enabled on the Lucid. Perhaps Lucid's architecture has more "potential". But Lucid's track record on DDPro has been dismal. Lucid-diehards believe the Gravity development and advances will eventually benefit the Air. Honestly, I'd be amazed if that happens!

Also have an R1S and completely agree on all points. The lack of SW features on the Lucid are particularly noticeable next to my R1S. Rivian has killed it on SW, particularly through regular monthly OTAs that both fix bugs and implement new features and functionality. To further drive home this point, we will be getting the very same blind spot camera turn signal functionality that we already enjoy with our Lucids, through a simple OTA this month.

 

[DreamTour]

Maybe i am in the minority, but i don't find myself feeling like there is a killer feature missing in lucid's software stack. It definitely needs refinement, but the bones are there. (excluding expectations on dream drive because well it really hasn't gotten much)

I have what i need to drive the car and enjoy it (apple carplay fills a lot of the gap)

What do people here think is a must have in software that Lucid is short on?

 

[BS8899]

Maybe i am in the minority, but i don't find myself feeling like there is a killer feature missing in lucid's software stack. It definitely needs refinement, but the bones are there. (excluding expectations on dream drive because well it really hasn't gotten much)

I have what i need to drive the car and enjoy it (apple carplay fills a lot of the gap)

What do people here think is a must have in software that Lucid is short on?

There are two separate sets of issues with Lucid SW. First, what comes with the car doesn't always work or work well. Without going on a rant and repeating many of the issues cited in this forum, just think about the backup camera. I find the Lucid navigation system clumsy and unreliable.

Your statement "Apply Carplay fills in a lot of the gap" says it all!

 

[HC_79]

Maybe i am in the minority, but i don't find myself feeling like there is a killer feature missing in lucid's software stack. It definitely needs refinement, but the bones are there. (excluding expectations on dream drive because well it really hasn't gotten much)

I have what i need to drive the car and enjoy it (apple carplay fills a lot of the gap)

What do people here think is a must have in software that Lucid is short on?

DDPro out of the conversations (which is an issue in itself)...... You hit the nail on the head with your CarPlay comment. These cars for the price shouldn't have to rely on CarPlay to give off a great user experience. I'm in the minority but I can't stand CarPlay. I always prefer to use a cars built in software as its more integrated into the cars systems. Prime example in EV's is the route planner and predicting charging stops etc. CarPlay doesn't do that (In the Lucid).

Early days aside, Is the Lucid software horrible? No but its needs a lot of refinement and Lucid has dragged its feet on getting these refinements. Why on earth can we still not run Music on the top screen and Navigation on the bottom or vice versa? The flicking up and down is a gimmick and quite useless. Looked cool in the demos but the practicality of it not so great.

I get the feeling that Rivian listens to its customers needs more than Lucid which is why a lot of things in the new UI were based on Customer Feedback. To be fair, Lucid listens to its customers more than what Ford, GM, VW do but you just need to look at Bobby's list to know that the most voted customer software requests simply aren't a priority for Lucid.