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Why Donut labs solid state battery could be real

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Dolphins4ever

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The battery specs are truly unbelievable and being skeptical makes sense, but there is tangible evidence of the technology, the money, and basis for it coming out of donut labs. This connects the dots between the ours ring billionaire and three portfolio companies, one of which is donut labs. After the news broke there were 600+ companies inquiring about their battery and the orders for the verge motorcycle using the battery spiked as well, probably most for tear down analysis I would bet. I hope Lucid is getting in on this asap!!
Spec summary, about 2x power density of current ev battery tech, price parity, voltage and form factor makes it drop in ready for current ev battery systems, almost no energy loss at -30C to 100C, 100,000 cycles, no runaway, no rare earth elements at all, no fire risk, 5 minute charge/discharge time

This video follows job ads and money to sort through how donut labs’ battery could be real. This is really good reporting and worth your time - especially Lucid!
 
 
Dolphins4ever said:
The battery specs are truly unbelievable and being skeptical makes sense, but there is tangible evidence of the technology, the money, and basis for it coming out of donut labs. This connects the dots between the ours ring billionaire and three portfolio companies, one of which is donut labs. After the news broke there were 600+ companies inquiring about their battery and the orders for the verge motorcycle using the battery spiked as well, probably most for tear down analysis I would bet. I hope Lucid is getting in on this asap!!
Spec summary, about 2x power density of current ev battery tech, price parity, voltage and form factor makes it drop in ready for current ev battery systems, almost no energy loss at -30C to 100C, 100,000 cycles, no runaway, no rare earth elements at all, no fire risk, 5 minute charge/discharge time

This video follows job ads and money to sort through how donut labs’ battery could be real. This is really good reporting and worth your time - especially Lucid!
Click to expand...
What is all the hype?

If it is true, it should loan a car with its battery to a journalist to test its range.

Too much talk with no proof.
 
The solid state battery technology is real. Toyota is among the companies that have been researching them.
interestingengineering.com

Toyota’s new solid-state EV batteries promise 40 years of power

Toyota’s solid-state EV batteries could last 40 years, offer 621 mile range, and be smaller, lighter, and cheaper by 2027-28.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com

Has Donut developed the first cost effective one, or do they really have a capacitor and it’s marketing hype? We won’t know until an independent third party gets their hands on one.
 
Saksak said:
The solid state battery technology is real. Toyota is among the companies that have been researching them.
interestingengineering.com

Toyota’s new solid-state EV batteries promise 40 years of power

Toyota’s solid-state EV batteries could last 40 years, offer 621 mile range, and be smaller, lighter, and cheaper by 2027-28.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com

Has Donut developed the first cost effective one, or do they really have a capacitor and it’s marketing hype? We won’t know until an independent third party gets their hands on one.
Click to expand...
Solid state batteries for Toyota is like Tesla’s FSD. “Coming next year” for the last 10 years.

Highly skeptical that a company founded 2 years ago has the secret sauce while those who have been testing and developing for years still haven’t really announced anything solid in terms of consumer delivery.

Lucid themselves started as a battery company you’d think they’d have skin in the game on when this could hit the market and all quiet from them on that front.
 
Saksak said:
The solid state battery technology is real. Toyota is among the companies that have been researching them.
interestingengineering.com

Toyota’s new solid-state EV batteries promise 40 years of power

Toyota’s solid-state EV batteries could last 40 years, offer 621 mile range, and be smaller, lighter, and cheaper by 2027-28.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com

Has Donut developed the first cost effective one, or do they really have a capacitor and it’s marketing hype? We won’t know until an independent third party gets their hands on one.
Click to expand...
There's no question about whether Solid-state battery is real or not.

Michael Faraday discovered it since 1830s.

Ford already demonstrated it in their lab since 1966 or it has been 60 years.

The issue is whether the production-ready true or not.

For the past 60 years, it has been predicted that it's just around the corner. Just give them 5 more years over and over again.

Thus, when someone says, not 5 more years but it's now. It's production-ready now. I need to see it driving down the road to believe it.
 
Saksak said:
The solid state battery technology is real. Toyota is among the companies that have been researching them.
interestingengineering.com

Toyota’s new solid-state EV batteries promise 40 years of power

Toyota’s solid-state EV batteries could last 40 years, offer 621 mile range, and be smaller, lighter, and cheaper by 2027-28.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com

Has Donut developed the first cost effective one, or do they really have a capacitor and it’s marketing hype? We won’t know until an independent third party gets their hands on one.
Click to expand...
Toyota has been pushing back solid state battery prototype release for years. Quantum scape doesn’t have a working cost effective prototype. If Donut labs did have a working one, why not put it in a car instead of a bike? This doesn’t make sense. They probably want more investing so creating hype.
 
HC_79 said:
Solid state batteries for Toyota is like Tesla’s FSD. “Coming next year” for the last 10 years.

Highly skeptical that a company founded 2 years ago has the secret sauce while those who have been testing and developing for years still haven’t really announced anything solid in terms of consumer delivery.

Lucid themselves started as a battery company you’d think they’d have skin in the game on when this could hit the market and all quiet from them on that front.
Click to expand...
Never not be skeptical! I agree with this completely.
The research this is from is not from donut labs, probably (forced?) licensed, from a battery tech company whose research on this has been a long time. Why is greed. The billionaire backing all three of these companies wants all his companies to all get richer, multiplying his return instead of just the battery tech company being bought for example. Every company has resources to use one tech to try to develop ssb and are working to perfecting that and any company that has $billions to throw at their chosen path has equivalent resource based chances of being right first, that appears to be this situation. Could it all be smoke and mirrors, absolutely. However, there have been hirings over years that suggest how the tech advanced to mass production success.
 
I want to believe this could be real, but like most of you, I remain skeptical. I do wonder whether the choice to use this in a motorcycle could be due to the inability to significantly scale in a cost effective manner. Their price point for the Verge TS Pro is like $30k (quite pricey for a bike!) perhaps illustrates this?
 
Multiple companies already have working prototypes running in a car with real range:

electrek.co

Another Chinese EV giant begins testing solid-state batteries with 620+ miles range

Another of China’s “Big Four” automakers began testing solid-state EV batteries in vehicles this week, promising over 620 miles (1,000 km) of range....
electrek.co electrek.co

Dongfeng Motor: 620 miles
Mercedes EQS: 745 miles

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Stellantis, Hyundai, and others all are working on this.

SAIC Motor, GAC Group, Changan Auto, CATL, and BYD... predict that they could bring it to the market as early as 2027 to 2030.

Working Solid-state battery in cars are real. The not real part is it's coming to the market next year or next 5 years because that deadline kept being kicked down the timeline year after year, then suddenly there's a hype from time to time.
 
McGriddle said:
I want to believe this could be real, but like most of you, I remain skeptical. I do wonder whether the choice to use this in a motorcycle could be due to the inability to significantly scale in a cost effective manner. Their price point for the Verge TS Pro is like $30k (quite pricey for a bike!) perhaps illustrates this?
Click to expand...
Skepticism is a healthy perspective! The motorcycle is a very low production product, I came across info that they made on the order of 50 bikes last year, not sure if their goal is to remain high end, low production product or to scale. The supposed battery manufacturing plant that may be near the fin/rus border has gigawatt level capacity scale.
 
Tâm said:
[…]

Working Solid-state battery in cars are real. The not real part is it's coming to the market next year or next 5 years because that deadline kept being kicked down the timeline year after year, then suddenly there's a hype from time to time.
Click to expand...
Wow. A part of me wants this technology to mature and roll out ASAP, but a part of me doesn’t. I don’t like the thought of my less than 3 week old Gravity being obsolete with next year’s car model incorporating solid state batteries 🤣.
 
Skepticism is good, being cynical is not. Not calling anyone out, just the distinction.
 
Saksak said:
Wow. A part of me wants this technology to mature and roll out ASAP, but a part of me doesn’t. I don’t like the thought of my less than 3 week old Gravity being obsolete with next year’s car model incorporating solid state batteries 🤣.
Click to expand...
My guess is you (and all of us) are fairly safe on that front. It is kind of like we see with the fact that on paper CCS1 has basically been superseded by NACS. Technically the war is over and NACS won. It is the dominant standard and your Gravity has it, yeah! In real life, CCS1 will continue to function just fine, and be easily available for use without an adapter for people like me with an Air for many years yet. Is NACS the future - yes. Is it better - yes. Does my CCS1 car have years of CCS1 life ahead of it. Sure.
 
Tâm said:
Multiple companies already have working prototypes running in a car with real range:

electrek.co

Another Chinese EV giant begins testing solid-state batteries with 620+ miles range

Another of China’s “Big Four” automakers began testing solid-state EV batteries in vehicles this week, promising over 620 miles (1,000 km) of range....
electrek.co electrek.co

Dongfeng Motor: 620 miles
Mercedes EQS: 745 miles

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Stellantis, Hyundai, and others all are working on this.

SAIC Motor, GAC Group, Changan Auto, CATL, and BYD... predict that they could bring it to the market as early as 2027 to 2030.

Working Solid-state battery in cars are real. The not real part is it's coming to the market next year or next 5 years because that deadline kept being kicked down the timeline year after year, then suddenly there's a hype from time to time.
Click to expand...
Yes and a lot of the prototypes are semi-solid state, new product development is usually difficult, but refining the tech so it can be be completely solid state and be stable over 1000s of charge/discharge cycles as well as scalable manufacturing design has been the biggest barriers, seemingly needing major tweaking or a novel breakthrough otherwise the tech would have matured from one of these sources before now. That is the supposed breakthrough with this tech, it is stable for 100,000 cycles and straightforward manufacturing processes, if you look at not only the announcement and verge specs, but also trace back the likely tech as they did in this video it could be a super capacitor instead of a traditional battery.
 
jbawden said:
Skepticism is good, being cynical is not. Not calling anyone out, just the distinction.
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong.

I do respect those who work on very difficult issues like Solid-state battery. I am for it. What I don't like is the hype to make people think that's it's here.

Same with building a hotel in Mars for Mars tourism. I do respect those who work on that. I am all for Mars and I do think that humans will live there some day. But what I don't like is making me thinking that it's here and I should make a deposit for a ticket to Mars now.
 
I’ve watched this whole saga with a lot of interest. I hope it’s real but it just seems too fishy to not be a scam. The idea that a company has developed either a Solid State Battery or Ultracapacitor with that energy density and decided the best place to debut it is in an electric motorcycle from a niche manufacturer just doesn’t seem realistic.

The batteries they’re describing are a world-changing event that would be better suited to nearly anything other than an electric motorcycle. I mean, there are so many electronics, tools, and automative manufacturers around that would pay unforeseen amounts of money for that technology. At that energy density it even starts to become viable for electric aviation.

As much as I’d love to see an electric motorcycle with those claimed specs, the whole introduction just doesn’t ring right.
 
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