When Highway Assist Can Be Dangerious

[DJL]

This happens a lot on SLC highways, I think it's because the geo fencing isn't 100% accurate and so it just thinks I'm in an area that shouldn't allow highway assist. Then a few seconds later it realizes that I am, then I re-enable it again.

But it should have more warnings for when HA is disengaged

Thanks for that insight.

 

[Gandalf]

Before I get into the details, let me first state, emphatically, I love Lucid’s Highway Assist feature. It allowed this 72 old fella to drive multiple days in a row +/- 600 miles a day. I discovered that it made the long drives very pleasant, arriving each evening at our hotel with enough energy and get up and go to run over to the local EA station and charge up for the next day.
Here is a secret I discovered. First, if I hang my left hand, using just the three middle fingers on the lower, left most portion of the steering wheel, then just the weight of my hand puts enough torque on the wheel where the HA would steer the car by itself for hours. It was very comfortable to keep my hand there.
Now, with the above stated, let me also share that there are a few driving conditions where using the HA by itself could be very dangerous. These are all fixable, in my opinion, with a software upgrade so I have high hopes Lucid will address these issues in future updates. But, until they do, please be aware of these hazardous situations.
First, and this is the most dangerous in my opinion, is that the HA tends to keep the car closer to the right side of the lane you are driving in. If you are driving in the slow lane (or right lane), this typically does not present a problem. However, if you are driving in the speed lane (or left lane) and are passing a truck, you can very easily find that the truck you are approaching or passing will impinge on your driving space and the HA doesn’t adjust for this. As one who has driven a 40-foot RV bus about 20,000 miles, I believe that this can happen when the truck driver starts to watch you in his left side mirror. His slight turning of his head to the left results in a very slight increase in pressure on the left hand, resulting in the truck edging over to the left and, sometimes, into your lane. In using the HA, I found that this happens around 10 to 20% of the time I would pass a truck. I would need to jerk the Lucid’s wheel to the left to avoid getting pinched or even hit by the truck. I would like to have the HA hug closer to the left lane stripe instead of the right lane marker when I am in the left-hand lane. It would give me about a foot more space to allow for the truck driver to correct his impingement.
Here are a couple of hints to deal with this until Lucid corrects the software. First, if passing a line of trucks, simply switch to ACC as you approach. This keeps your speed up and allows you to steer the car smoothly if one of the trucks starts impinging on you space. My wife would get annoyed with my jerking the wheel over if I was still using the HA when this happened. The second hint is to watch the front left wheel of the truck you are approaching. Where this wheel goes, the rest of the truck will immediately follow. If it starts to edge toward your lane, be ready to pull your car to the left. Sometime, you can add a little torque to the wheel and move the car a bit to the left without breaking off the HA, but more times than not, I would still breakoff the HA in a jerky manner and get dirty looks from my wife..
The second potentially dangerous situation in using the HA is when going around shaper curves at a relatively high speed. The Lucid just loves taking curves at higher speeds and it is very easy to simple rely on the HA feature where this happens as you're driving down the freeway in mountainous areas. However, if the speed is too fast or the curve too sharp, the HA simply releases without telling you. Unless you are paying close attention, you are will discover that you are beginning to run off the road and need to quickly correct.
The third potentially dangerous situation is when approach exit lanes or entrance lanes. Here the right lane marker is moving to the exit ramp or is missing as the entrance lane starts to merge with the freeway. The former situation happened to me numerous times and I found I was heading for the exit when I wanted to go straight. In the latter situation, the car sometimes gets confused and the HA rudely jerks the car around or even shuts off.
If you have experienced other situations, please let me know as I wish to keep track of them for future references. Thanks

Great review, and confirms some of the findings from my own road trip last month (https://lucidowners.com/threads/road-test-report-600-miles-cold-weather-ha.3552/). The lane centering issues are bothersome, and annoying, but nor particularly dangerous, IMO, as long as you're paying attention. The bigger danger, in my opinion, is related to the issue of HA turning off without warning, on curves, at high speed, and in the middle of the turn. Again, not a big deal if you're paying attention (as you should be), but potentially very hazardous if the car suddenly releases the wheel at 85+mph on a curvy highway.

 

[joec]

Great review, and confirms some of the findings from my own road trip last month (https://lucidowners.com/threads/road-test-report-600-miles-cold-weather-ha.3552/). The lane centering issues are bothersome, and annoying, but nor particularly dangerous, IMO, as long as you're paying attention. The bigger danger, in my opinion, is related to the issue of HA turning off without warning, on curves, at high speed, and in the middle of the turn. Again, not a big deal if you're paying attention (as you should be), but potentially very hazardous if the car suddenly releases the wheel at 85+mph on a curvy highway.

I would agree. Do you get an audible warning of some kind when HA disengages?

 

[Leighb]

Thank you taking the time to write this detailed and incredibly helpful post!!!

Thank you for this post. I have had 3 Teslas and do a lot of driving between LA and Santa Barbara. Never had a problem with the Tesla Auto pilot. However, with the Lucid I have had a number of instances where Driver Assist stops working suddenly on the freeway but the Driver Assist light remains illuminated. When I took it in for service the technician explained that the loss of Driver Assist is indicated by the tiny steering wheel light going out. If you are looking at the road as the system requires, you are not looking for the tiny image on the screen. and the only thing you can see is the illuminated Driver Assist sign. This is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS. If you Driver Assist is suddenly going to stop working and allow you to veer out of your lane ( this always happens on curves), the Driver Assist light should go off and there should be an audible warning as there is in the Tesla. I am really dismayed about this as I feel I just can't rely on Driver Assist at all and, had I known, I would have bought a car that had a reliable system for staying in the lane.

 

[Leighb]

Great review, and confirms some of the findings from my own road trip last month (https://lucidowners.com/threads/road-test-report-600-miles-cold-weather-ha.3552/). The lane centering issues are bothersome, and annoying, but nor particularly dangerous, IMO, as long as you're paying attention. The bigger danger, in my opinion, is related to the issue of HA turning off without warning, on curves, at high speed, and in the middle of the turn. Again, not a big deal if you're paying attention (as you should be), but potentially very hazardous if the car suddenly releases the wheel at 85+mph on a curvy highway.

Agree, Sudden lane departure with no warning and the Driver Assist light still illuminated is EXTREMELY dangerous.

 

[borski]

Thank you for this post. I have had 3 Teslas and do a lot of driving between LA and Santa Barbara. Never had a problem with the Tesla Auto pilot. However, with the Lucid I have had a number of instances where Driver Assist stops working suddenly on the freeway but the Driver Assist light remains illuminated. When I took it in for service the technician explained that the loss of Driver Assist is indicated by the tiny steering wheel light going out. If you are looking at the road as the system requires, you are not looking for the tiny image on the screen. and the only thing you can see is the illuminated Driver Assist sign. This is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS. If you Driver Assist is suddenly going to stop working and allow you to veer out of your lane ( this always happens on curves), the Driver Assist light should go off and there should be an audible warning as there is in the Tesla. I am really dismayed about this as I feel I just can't rely on Driver Assist at all and, had I known, I would have bought a car that had a reliable system for staying in the lane.

The lane on the screen also turns black instead of yellow. It’s fairly obvious when it’s no longer steering in Highway Assist, but I agree it would be nice if it made a sound.

 

[hydbob]

Everytime HA says it can't keep going, there is a warning that's says it's limited. I'm not sure what you guys aren't seeing?

 

[DJL]

Everytime HA says it can't keep going, there is a warning that's says it's limited. I'm not sure what you guys aren't seeing?

I would really like to get an audible warning such as would you get when your seatbelts are not fastened.

 

[borski]

I would really like to get an audible warning such as would you get when your seatbelts are not fastened.

I agree, I’d love for them to add that feature.

But I wouldn’t call the current implementation “dangerous,” either. I think the visual indicator with the lane turning black and a visual warning is fairly clear, but an audible warning would be an improvement for sure.

 

[DJL]

Borski, I always enjoy reading your post as you have a long history of offering keen insights and pity comments. Thank you. However, on this I am afraid we must agree to disagree. There have been about a half dozen time when the HA just stopped working for me and a few of those times resulted in my crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe since I was watching either the scenery or the center panel. I only discovered that I was crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe after it happened. Fortunately, each time I responded in time to pull the car back into the lane but each time was a bit startling. Driving at speeds between 70 and 80 mph, I would consider that dangerous.

 

[borski]

Borski, I always enjoy reading your post as you have a long history of offering keen insights and pity comments. Thank you. However, on this I am afraid we must agree to disagree. There have been about a half dozen time when the HA just stopped working for me and a few of those times resulted in my crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe since I was watching either the scenery or the center panel. I only discovered that I was crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe after it happened. Fortunately, each time I responded in time to pull the car back into the lane but each time was a bit startling. Driving at speeds between 70 and 80 mph, I would consider that dangerous.

Had that happened to me, I’d agree with you. I guess I just pay a lot of attention because I don’t fully trust *any* highway assist implementation, even if Lucid’s is among the best I’ve used and hasn’t made a mistake yet (for me) aside from very occasional confusion if there is an off ramp.

But I totally respect your opinion - I agree that it would be safer if there were an audible warning. I wouldn’t go so far as to call the current implementation dangerous, but there’s no question that an audible warning would be safer yet.

 

[hydbob]

Borski, I always enjoy reading your post as you have a long history of offering keen insights and pity comments. Thank you. However, on this I am afraid we must agree to disagree. There have been about a half dozen time when the HA just stopped working for me and a few of those times resulted in my crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe since I was watching either the scenery or the center panel. I only discovered that I was crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe after it happened. Fortunately, each time I responded in time to pull the car back into the lane but each time was a bit startling. Driving at speeds between 70 and 80 mph, I would consider that dangerous.

Are you not seeing the red-orangish warning on the left side of the center cluster where it says something close to "Highway assist limited, driver needs to take over"??

 

[Electrified]

Keep your eyes on the road your hand upon the wheel.
Jim Morrison

 

[Volund]

Are you not seeing the red-orangish warning on the left side of the center cluster where it says something close to "Highway assist limited, driver needs to take over"??

Actually no.
When there's more curvy roads on the highway here, it immediately deactivates without any warning. Maybe a very soft chime if I remember correctly. But I always pay attention cause it can turn off randomly.

But otherwise, yes most of the time I get the "steering is limited" warning

 

[DJL]

Are you not seeing the red-orangish warning on the left side of the center cluster where it says something close to "Highway assist limited, driver needs to take over"??

No, I find the lane assist a pain in the ass on the very narrow local country roads where I live. Thus, it is turned off. Not sure what all the fuss is about for not having a little chime go off but what can I say. Everyone has their own preferences.

 

[hydbob]

No, I find the lane assist a pain in the ass on the very narrow local country roads where I live. Thus, it is turned off. Not sure what all the fuss is about for not having a little chime go off but what can I say. Everyone has their own preferences.

Oh I agree it needs an audio chime, I'm just wondering if you are seeing the visual warning before it disengages.

 

[Leighb]

Actually no.
When there's more curvy roads on the highway here, it immediately deactivates without any warning. Maybe a very soft chime if I remember correctly. But I always pay attention cause it can turn off randomly.

But otherwise, yes most of the time I get the "steering is limited" warning

I drive from LA to Santa Barbara about once per week. I have found that the Highway Assist goes off frequently, mostly on curves, without any warning or even the Highway Assist light going off. The only thing that apparently happens is that the tiny steering wheel light will go off, no audible warning and the Highway Assist light stays on. It happened at least 5 times on my last drive up there. Today, driving back, Highway Assist would not go on at all. The blind spot video image also didn't appear when I put on the turn signal. Not sure if that is related to HA not working, I thought it work at all times.

 

[Leighb]

I agree, I’d love for them to add that feature.

But I wouldn’t call the current implementation “dangerous,” either. I think the visual indicator with the lane turning black and a visual warning is fairly clear, but an audible warning would be an improvement for sure.

The system requires you to look at the road. The only thing that is clearly in your field of vision when you are looking at the road is the Highway Assist sigh which remains unchanged when the HA switches off suddenly. This is a HUGE product liability issue. Also on my last freeway trip Highway just would not start...it would only to to ACC even though I was traveling on a freeway where I have used HA many times. Not only that, no blind spot appeared when I put on the turn signal.

 

[hydbob]

I drive from LA to Santa Barbara about once per week. I have found that the Highway Assist goes off frequently, mostly on curves, without any warning or even the Highway Assist light going off. The only thing that apparently happens is that the tiny steering wheel light will go off, no audible warning and the Highway Assist light stays on. It happened at least 5 times on my last drive up there. Today, driving back, Highway Assist would not go on at all. The blind spot video image also didn't appear when I put on the turn signal. Not sure if that is related to HA not working, I thought it work at all times.

We'd need some others to chime in, but if your blind spot cameras are not working, I think those are tied to HA tracking the lane lines.

 

[Leighb]

Borski, I always enjoy reading your post as you have a long history of offering keen insights and pity comments. Thank you. However, on this I am afraid we must agree to disagree. There have been about a half dozen time when the HA just stopped working for me and a few of those times resulted in my crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe since I was watching either the scenery or the center panel. I only discovered that I was crossing the freeway's side or middle stripe after it happened. Fortunately, each time I responded in time to pull the car back into the lane but each time was a bit startling. Driving at speeds between 70 and 80 mph, I would consider that dangerous.

This is exactly what I have experienced. No warning and suddenly you are crossing into the next lane over.