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Tri-Motor 1/4 mile

hmp10

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Lucid left many questions unanswered when it opened up the order configurator of the three versions of the Air that have been "revealed", including things as basic as the price and specific features of those options. I would be happier if they would put some effort into answering those questions instead of continuing the drumbeat of teasers about cars that are even further away from production.

Lucid seems to be getting so focused on one-upping Tesla at the far extremes of track performance that it is forgetting the reasons that people who buy S-Class and 7-Series cars might be enticed to switch to an EV. While Lucid is trying to create waves among performance junkies who, by and large, will not be able to afford a Lucid -- especially a tri-motor one -- they are leaving the door wide open for the EQS to become the EV alternative for buyers of large German luxury sedans.
 

BlindPass

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Lucid left many questions unanswered when it opened up the order configurator of the three versions of the Air that have been "revealed", including things as basic as the price and specific features of those options. I would be happier if they would put some effort into answering those questions instead of continuing the drumbeat of teasers about cars that are even further away from production.

Lucid seems to be getting so focused on one-upping Tesla at the far extremes of track performance that it is forgetting the reasons that people who buy S-Class and 7-Series cars might be enticed to switch to an EV. While Lucid is trying to create waves among performance junkies who, by and large, will not be able to afford a Lucid -- especially a tri-motor one -- they are leaving the door wide open for the EQS to become the EV alternative for buyers of large German luxury sedans.
Right. They seem to be more going for “a better, more expensive Tesla” than the S Class of EVs.

With nascent tech, cutting edge tech, value is tough. With Tesla’s being 100k, I guess if they’re better spec, better appointed Tesla’s, you quickly hit $150 without true luxury
 

WillChen

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I think Lucid might be waiting for the battery day info to finalize the specs for Air. If Tesla releases plaid with longer battery, significantly improved autopilot and/or lower the price, Lucid would need to add that third motor and potentially dream drive standard. Eager to find out the updated changes and releases after battery day.

as for the top dream edition, it would probably need to give it all (even with adjusted price)to show case both luxury and racing specs.
 
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hmp10

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If Lucid is going to try to get into a neck-and-neck back and forth with Tesla over track times, the lead will pass back and forth and be of most interest to people who cannot afford either car.

What Lucid can do that Tesla cannot -- at least without big investment and a different business focus -- is provide the interior space and fittings of a true luxury vehicle.

This is sort of like the joke about two guys running from a bear where one guy asks the other if he can outrun the bear, and the guy answers, "I only have to outrun you." Lucid has already shown the ability to get someone out of a BMW Alpina or Mercedes S63 if they want an EV without any performance compromise. Trying to outrun Tesla is like trying to outrun the bear. It takes your focus off what is most likely to secure your position.
 

BlindPass

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If Lucid is going to try to get into a neck-and-neck back and forth with Tesla over track times, the lead will pass back and forth and be of most interest to people who cannot afford either car.

What Lucid can do that Tesla cannot -- at least without big investment and a different business focus -- is provide the interior space and fittings of a true luxury vehicle.

This is sort of like the joke about two guys running from a bear where one guy asks the other if he can outrun the bear, and the guy answers, "I only have to outrun you." Lucid has already shown the ability to get someone out of a BMW Alpina or Mercedes S63 if they want an EV without any performance compromise. Trying to outrun Tesla is like trying to outrun the bear. It takes your focus off what is most likely to secure your position.
I think you bring up an important dichotomy.
Lucid needs to have EV tech that competes with the best. But the cost to develop elite EV tech seems to be at a level in which those that that will compromise for performance can not afford.

Lucid is a new EV. What is their initial path to success? I thought it was being what Tesla is not and will never be- the first luxury EV. And they priced it at that.

But somewhere along the way, it’s as though they made a slight pivot to having better EV tech. In terms of product differentiation, this could be a misstep. Did they develop a superior product for a market that may not exist? A $170k, extra performance but Accord level Tesla Model S is a tiny market.

Is this a function of being led by true car engineers?

My assumption has been that designing and achieving such performance is the hard/expensive part. Plus, although I’d be fine with less range in exchange for more luxury based on years of using EVs, to compete with Tesla and convert ICE buyers, having such technical ability is a requisite.

They figured out the hard part in how to make a superior EV. That’s incredible. Now just add in conventional and in theory cheaper characteristics to make it a better car!

Economies of scale are likely working against them compared to the legacy manufacturers for some of the features. But something as simple as a more comfortable rear cabin is more due to hysteria of range.



It’s like the reveal was 6 months to a year too early. They revealed as soon as the engineers and designers figured out how to make great EVs that tested at an elite level, and prior to the “soft” side of the company got their say.
 

hmp10

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Lucid needs to have EV tech that competes with the best.
Exactly . . . and they have already shown that by attaining industry-leading efficiencies. The point should be to use those efficiencies to strike optimal balances between performance, passenger accommodations, and cost. Instead, Lucid seems to be obsessing about using them to beat Tesla at the track.

Is this a function of being led by true car engineers?
I think it is, in part. However, I am beginning to suspect something more corrosive. I have long wondered what the real relationship is between Musk and Rawlinson. I take a very dim view of Musk's character, all his technology vision and business acumen aside. I had thought that Rawlinson was the one of the two who would rise above whatever personal animus or competition might exist between them. Now I am less sure. This hurry to get the tri-motor performance into the headlines a day ahead of Tesla's Battery Day and two weeks after a product "reveal" that left many unanswered questions about the Air is disturbing. What the past two weeks has really revealed is that Lucid is more focused on staying one step ahead of Tesla than on getting the Air design locked down and into production.

Did they develop a superior product for a market that may not exist?
That's emerging as the central question for me. I have been very excited about the Lucid Air and been following it closely since I put down my deposit in September 2018. I spent three months waiting impatiently to find out exactly what I would be getting when I ordered my Dream Edition.

Now all I'm doing is nursing trepidation about whether I want to go ahead with the Dream Edition(which is still more than a half year away) or wait for the tri-motor car they are now teasing relentlessly . . . or wait to see what AMG does with the Mercedes EQS.

I mean, honestly, who wants to plunk down $169,000 for a "dream" car while being constantly reminded that there is an even better one around the next corner?
 
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BlindPass

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I think it is, in part. However, I am beginning to suspect something more corrosive. I have long wondered what the real relationship is between Musk and Rawlinson. I take a very dim view of Musk's character, all his technology vision and business acumen aside. I had thought that Rawlinson was the one of the two who would rise above whatever personal animus or competition might exist between them. Now I am less sure. This hurry to get the tri-motor performance into the headlines a day ahead of Tesla's Battery Day and two weeks after a product "reveal" that left many unanswered questions about the Air is disturbing. What the past two weeks has really revealed is that Lucid is more focused on staying one step ahead of Tesla than on getting the Air design locked down and into production.
Yes, this was what I was alluding to.
My own narrative is that Rawlinson has long seemed driven and motivated to prove he is the better EV builder- reclaiming what he should have achieved with the Model S.

I viewed this as a positive- a true car engineer undoing some of the cost-cutting and mistakes done by businessman in getting the first mass production premium EV to market.

But that may have been the altruistic version. There’s definitely a feel of wasteful competitiveness as I view chasing Tesla’s halo car specs as a fool’s errand to luxury brand.

Then again, to a majority of car buyers, Tesla is the only thing they know of EVs. The best and most effective marketing is likely to compare your superior tech to Tesla. Experienced EV buyers that are looking to move past Tesla may be collateral damage in marketing, but hopefully not actual build.

I guess I go back to thinking what they really messed up are the reveals. You’ve got the base tech down, and know overall constraints, now do market research and don’t rush it. I feel they fell short in asking how they should appoint and price the different trims, but instead rather by needing to best Tesla in engineering specs at any expense.

Hinting the tri motor has Osborned my commitment.
 

Hawk

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These are all excellent points. I do believe, however, that we should wait for the Tri-Motor specs. Will it be as luxurious as the Dream Edition or will it be a lighter weight less luxurious performance model? Will it be a two door model with a back seat? There are so many variables. I would be very surprised if Lucid designed a Tri-Motor that would directly cannibalize sales of the Dream Edition.

Guess we will all find out soon.
 

BlindPass

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Will it be as luxurious as the Dream Edition or will it be a lighter weight less luxurious performance model?

I would be very surprised if Lucid designed a Tri-Motor that would directly cannibalize sales of the Dream Edition.

Guess we will all find out soon.
Agree, I’m likely over analyzing.

However, knowing they have a better performance drivetrain makes me think they really should have had a more luxurious Air Dream trim to enhance product differentiation
 

Hawk

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I truly believe, as you have already mentioned, that they are waiting for Battery Day announcements. I have heard speculation that Lucid does have a plan and a few tricks up their sleeve. Just waiting to see what Tesla announces tomorrow.

Shouldn't be long (I hope).
 
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