Thoughts on Sitting in a Gravity

[Bus Driver]

Agree. I'd even say something like "200 miles on 80% -> 10% range" - that would be a reasonable step between two fast chargers.

It doesn't. I've tried several MEB platform cars and none meet their claimed range, especially on the highway. The real world range on the highway for ID.Buzz is 200 miles. And this is with 120km/h (~75mph) speed limit that is in Switzerland. It becomes even worse in Italy with 130km/h speed limit (and everyone speeding) or especially in Germany with no speed limit.

So now you’re back to “second generation” EVs, like the Tesla Model Ss and Model Xs that were produced and sold in the early to mid 2010s. That’s no longer adequate for EVs built today. That’s too bad.

 

[hmp10]

As a "fun recreation vehicle", I think a realizable (not EPA) range of 300 miles is not unreasonable. A VW Buzz with an 86kWh battery is supposed to have a 293-mile range. I have not seen actual range test results on this configuration. Most Germany cars meet/exceed their claimed range rating. If the VW Buzz does that, it is not too far off.

Yes, but remember this assumes using 100% of the available battery capacity. Not only does that stress the battery, it leaves no margin for dealing with the myriad of problems you can encounter with CCS charging stations in the U.S.

On a road trip we will sometimes charge up to near 100% if we're going to start driving immediately, but we invariably plan charging stops at 20-30% SOC in case we encounter traffic or weather problems along the way or have to find an alternate charging stop. A heavy downpour, for instance, can reduce range by over 10% because of the rolling resistance the tires encounter in pushing water aside.

If you want 300 miles of highway range driving at realistic freeway speeds (average U.S. freeway speed is 78 mph) while protecting your battery and allowing for possible roadway or charging problems, you need a vehicle with at least a 450-mile EPA rating.

Our Air Dream P on 21" wheels is rated at 451 miles. We typically find that a ~240 highway leg uses a bit under 70% of the battery pack capacity. As that amounts to over 3 hours of driving, it's about all we can do without needing a rest stop, anyway.

 

[joec]

Yes, but remember this assumes using 100% of the available battery capacity. Not only does that stress the battery, it leaves no margin for dealing with the myriad of problems you can encounter with CCS charging stations in the U.S.

On a road trip we will sometimes charge up to near 100% if we're going to start driving immediately, but we invariably plan charging stops at 20-30% SOC in case we encounter traffic or weather problems along the way or have to find an alternate charging stop. A heavy downpour, for instance, can reduce range by over 10% because of the rolling resistance the tires encounter in pushing water aside.

If you want 300 miles of highway range driving at realistic freeway speeds while protecting your battery and allowing for possible roadway or charging problems, you need a vehicle with at least a 450-mile EPA rating.

100 times this.

I wish it weren't so, but one needs to take EPA claims and "convert" them to real-world results. Such is the nature of advertising in America.

My Touring, with an EPA of 425 miles, has on occasion gotten more than 300 miles. But I generally don't count on that, even, when I plan out a charging strategy. Especially once you start factoring all the many conditions you might be up against on a trip, it's much safer to plan stops at 250-280 increments.

I had the pleasure of driving around a Chevy Bolt recently. Great little car. But with 280 miles of stated range and slow charging speeds, I'd probably never take it on a road trip of any sort. That's fine, for a second car you never plan to use beyond treking around the city and immediate surrounding area. But you have to go into that with open eyes.

 

[BS8899]

Yes, but remember this assumes using 100% of the available battery capacity. Not only does that stress the battery, it leaves no margin for dealing with the myriad of problems you can encounter with CCS charging stations in the U.S.

On a road trip we will sometimes charge up to near 100% if we're going to start driving immediately, but we invariably plan charging stops at 20-30% SOC in case we encounter traffic or weather problems along the way or have to find an alternate charging stop. A heavy downpour, for instance, can reduce range by over 10% because of the rolling resistance the tires encounter in pushing water aside.

If you want 300 miles of highway range driving at realistic freeway speeds (average U.S. freeway speed is 78 mph) while protecting your battery and allowing for possible roadway or charging problems, you need a vehicle with at least a 450-mile EPA rating.

Our Air Dream P on 21" wheels is rated at 451 miles. We typically find that a ~240 highway leg uses a bit under 70% of the battery pack capacity. As that amounts to over 3 hours of driving, it's about all we can do without needing a rest stop, anyway.

I think the charging practices are regional dependent. I drive mostly the Arizona to Southern Cal and then head north to the Bay Area routes. In this region, there is an abundance of fast DC chargers en route. I start with 100% charge from home, and I often go down to 5% (or less) before I recharge. With this practice, I can cover my 780-mile (Phoenix to Marin County) trip with 2 charging stops in the Lucid (AGT). In my R1S (large pkg), I have to make 3-4 stops.

Yes, maintaining the SoC at 100% continuously is not advised because of the resultant higher electrode voltage and corrosion. I only do that on my first leg (starting from home). Thereafter, I keep the SoC at 75-80%.

The routes I travel is blessed with an abundance of EV fast chargers (once you cross the AZ-CA Stateline). As such, I am comfortable running the SoC down to 5%, knowing that I won't be stranded. With that, I minimize the number of charging stops. Obviously, there is the alternative practice of making more frequent charging stops and only running it down to 20% SoC and charging back to 70% SoC. I don't claim one methodology is better than the other.

 

[hmp10]

I think the charging practices are regional dependent.

Absolutely. You have the good fortune to road trip in perhaps the optimal EV environment: ubiquitous and reliable DC fast chargers, little in the way of cold temperatures, not much rain. Where I live and road trip, about the only thing in our favor is absence of cold temperatures.

 

[momo3605]

On the other hand, legroom in that configuration would have gone from parsimonious to nonexistent, leaving you as I’ve griped before, with a space fit only for housepets, small children and leg amputees.

Do you carry tall people in the 3rd row a lot? I've usually found for large families, the taller people will sit up front and the shorter people/kids will sit in the back.

 

[momo3605]

My Touring, with an EPA of 425 miles, has on occasion gotten more than 300 miles. But I generally don't count on that, even, when I plan out a charging strategy. Especially once you start factoring all the many conditions you might be up against on a trip, it's much safer to plan stops at 250-280 increments.

Once you get into 20" and 21" wheels, it drops off even more. Then you're looking at closer to 200 mile increments. I wonder if the largest-battery Gravity will have more real-world range than the Air Pure/Touring with 19s.

 

[BS8899]

Once you get into 20" and 21" wheels, it drops off even more. Then you're looking at closer to 200 mile increments. I wonder if the largest-battery Gravity will have more real-world range than the Air Pure/Touring with 19s.

To the extent that the drag coefficient is larger on the Gravity (0.24 vs 0.21), and the wheels are larger (correct?), I'd expect the Gravity to be challenged to have better real-world range. Thoughts?

 

[hmp10]

To the extent that the drag coefficient is larger on the Gravity (0.24 vs 0.21), and the wheels are larger (correct?), I'd expect the Gravity to be challenged to have better real-world range. Thoughts?

Hard to know yet, but I tend to think you're right, especially if, by real-world range, one means highway driving. EPA ratings encompass a range of speeds, but at highway speeds aerodynamics become the biggest factor in reducing range.

Not only is the Gravity's drag coefficient higher, but the frontal surface area is larger, even further increasing aerodynamic drag. And I believe the 22-23" wheels wear 265mm front rubber and 295mm rear rubber, the same as on the Sapphire. (Not sure about the 20-21" and 21-22" wheel options.) Also, the Gravity wheels -- at least the ones I've seen -- have dispensed with the aero blades found on most Airs. Derek Jenkins said in an interview that doing so did not have "much" of an impact on range, but "not much" is still something.

This means the large-battery Gravity might get a better EPA rating based on mixed driving than a small-pack Touring or Pure, but when sustained highway speeds bring aerodynamics more into play, the Gravity's range will fall away from the EPA rating more quickly than an Air's.

I assume the Gravity's new-generation motor revisions and the marginally-larger battery pack (120kWh vs. the 112, 117, and 118kWh on the large-pack Airs) will somewhat offset the above factors, but I don't see any way the Gravity will beat any of the Airs on highway range (except possibly the Sapphire, which is engineered to increase downforce at speed.)

 

[msaunders9430]

An Aurora Green Gravity was on display at the Miami Worldcenter Design Studio today. As viewers were allowed to sit in it, we drove across Florida to check it out. (We had seen a Lunar Titanium Gravity at showrooms twice but not been allowed to sit in it.). This Gravity was a beta prototype, not a release candidate car. There was a release candidate Gravity in the attached service center, as Lucid is sending them out to the service centers for technician training, but we were not allowed to see it. Most switchgear and the software features weren't functioning on the beta car, and some interior components were filler pieces. For example, instead of the tempered glass siding cover on the front console, there was a fixed piece of flat black material.

The showroom was mobbed, with 9-10 Lucid employees on hand from various locations and throngs of viewers milling around the Gravity and the Air Sapphire sitting next to it. All the Gravity's doors, rear hatch, and frunk were opened. In fact, we weren't allowed to close any of the doors as the mechanism that seals the windows wasn't functioning. I found quite a bit of variability among the sales reps in their knowledge of the Gravity. A couple weren't even aware that there were Gravity exterior color blocks on a display shelf and interior color swatches mounted on a large wall board. One has been in Product Planning at Lucid headquarters and was a fount of interesting information, although more regarding the Air than the Gravity (for which rollout he has been borrowed).

So, here are my impressions, moving from the front row backwards:

Front Row

Getting into the car is easier than getting into an Air, partly due to the ground clearance and partly due to the higher roof cantrails. However, I was surprised to find that I had to bend my neck a bit to get into the driver seat. Apparently the prior viewer had run it well forward of my normal driving position. My taller partner had no similar problem getting into the front passenger seat, and I found getting into the driver seat easier when the seat was run back to my normal driving position.

The foam in all the seats was extremely firm. I suspect this might be due to the need to photograph the seats for promos, as the original demo Airs in the showrooms had similarly firm foam, but the production Airs had softer foam.

Even though not all the seating adjustments were functioning, the seating positions we could access were quite comfortable. As you would expect in a Lucid, the leg and foot room was copious.

The rim of the squircle was considerably thinner than on the Air -- almost disconcertingly so. I have seen some reviewers who drove early prototypes say the rim was rather hefty, so I'm wondering if this squircle was the production version.

The Glass Cockpit (aka the driver binnacle) was positioned very well. I had doubted some of the comments about its being situated to clear the squircle without blocking the forward view. In fact, short as I am, it did so very nicely.

None of the screen displays were functional, so other that saying there were sharp looking and nicely sized, there's not much to report here.

Second Row

The second-row seats offer great leg and foot room, especially with the second row run all the way back, but are still plenty roomy when run further forward. The seating position is high, with good leg drop. There is a surprising amount of toe parking space under the front seats given that there is a second tier of battery modules under those seats.

The drop-down center armrest is the full width of the center seat back, giving two people plenty of arm room without bumping elbows. However, it is so wide compared to the Air's rear armrest that it actually makes the outboard seats feel narrower than in the Air. (I started to close the door to see just how pronounced this was until a sales rep jumped forward to tell me the doors could not be closed for the reason aforementioned.)

The tray tables seem sturdy and were positioned perfectly for typing on a laptop (at least for an adult).

But, oh . . . how that second row left me lusting for some really nice captains chairs. There's plenty of room to do them really right.

Third Row

This was a real mixed bag. As most videos have shown, there is good leg and headroom for a tall adult as long as the second-row seats aren't run too far back. However, the bottom seat cushions are very short, probably to accommodate the need to fold the seats into the cargo floor. But they just aren't as comfortable as the third row in our Odyssey. At first, this surprised me, as the Gravity wheelbase is actually fractionally longer than the Odyssey's. But then it occurred to me that the front-wheel-drive Odyssey, with no rear axle or differential, has more room to accommodate seat stowage than does the Gravity with its rear drive unit and axle. Lucid's magic space wand can only do so much, I guess.

The real clunker, though, was ingress and egress. No other word for it but awful. After I ran the second-row seat all the way forward and folded the backrest forward, I just stood there trying to figure out how to proceed. A sales rep saw my dilemma and came up to tell me that most people found it easier to fold the back seat into the floor and climb over it. He then led me around to the other side of the car to show me how others were getting in and out. (I have a replaced knee and hip and need another knee done, so . . . ain't gonna happen.) I shook my head and returned to the other side to try. I finally made it into the third row, and I'll spare you the tale of getting back out.

One of the reasons I've been chomping at the bit to get a Gravity is that I wanted an EV that could replace our Odyssey for hauling six older adults on day outings. I've now got to start working on another justification for getting the Gravity which, God help me, I'm still hellbent on doing.


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Now, colors . . .

Although I was told ahead of the visit that they had no interior of exterior color samples for the Gravity, I arrived to find a wall shelf with four exterior color blocks and a large wall display with interior colors. However, the wall display showed only the four colors that were shown at the L.A. Auto Show: Yosemite, Ojai, Tahoe, and Mojave. None of the sales rep new anything about the five "curated" colors that Lucid mentions on its recently-updated Gravity webpage, and they have no idea what the fifth color might be.

The Gravity is going to come in six exterior colors, four unique to the Gravity: Supernova Bronze, Lunar Titanium, Aurora Green, and Classic Black. For some reason, the Gravity is not going to use the Infinity Black of the Air, but I could not tell any difference between the two from the samples under the showroom lighting.

The two in which I'm most interested are the bronze and the green, so a sales rep took them outside so that I could see them in natural light, where even she was surprised at how different -- and how much better -- they looked from in the showroom with its artificial lighting and heavily-tinted windows. (Several other people followed us out, and there was a lot of oohing and aahing.) These really are beautiful colors, and different hues come out in each when you move from sunlight to shade.

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Personally, I found the Yosemite and Tahoe interiors work best with the Aurora Green (although I found the Yosemite a bit too "chalky" when I actually saw it). My favorite interior color -- Ojai -- just did not work with the Aurora Green, so that might break the exterior color tie for me between the bronze and the green.

Okay, folks. End of report.

Oh, wait . . .

Some sales reps think the configurator will open in early November, but none claimed to have anything firm.

And . . . the Dream Edition is almost certainly dead, but there was a hint -- shadowy, vague, halting -- that some type of performance option could yet happen. It caused me to remember that the performance version of the GT was an option in the GT order configurator instead of its own separate model. And a reviewer a few weeks back said the Gravity would have up to 1,050 horsepower. At the time, I wrote it off to his being confused, but now I'm wondering. And hoping. Maybe even praying.

@hmp10 was the Lucid event you attended the 9/20/24 - 9/29/24 event posted on the event page of the Lucid website? See image below.

I ask because the same event description is provided for the 10/25/24 - 11/3/24 event at the Tysons Galleria near me.

From you posting, it sounds like you attended the specific 9/28 Send Off event.
Do you know if the public was allowed to sit in the Gravity only during the Send Off event or was sitting inside allowed each day, through the last day (9/29)?

The event near me will have a Kickoff Event on 10/26 and I'm wondering if I need to attend that specific day in order to sit in a Gravity.
I'll probably contact my sales contact at the location, but figured I'd get some details from you first.

 

[hmp10]

From you posting, it sounds like you attended the specific 9/28 Send Off event.
Do you know if the public was allowed to sit in the Gravity only during the Send Off event or was sitting inside allowed each day, through the last day (9/29)?

I don't know. I got confusing messages from Lucid beforehand.

I first heard about the event when I called the Worldcenter to ask whether they were going to have a Gravity available to sit in. I was told that they would have an Aurora Green one in the showroom that could be sat in between noon and 2:00 p.m. on Saturday, the 28th. (This call was sometime early in the week of September 16.)

I called again on Thursday, September 26 to confirm the car was going to be there and available to sit in. I was told that they were going to get one of two Gravities that were on the rounds but did not yet know whether people would be allowed to sit in the one they would get. The rep put me on hold while he called a regional manager. When he came back on the line, he said they were about 90% sure people would be allowed to sit in the one they were getting.

As we were driving across state to see it, I called again on Friday to see if there were any developments. At that point I was told that the car arrived and we would definitely be allowed to sit in it. I asked whether the two-hour viewing window still held and was told that the "official" answer was yes, but that we could sit in it any time up until closing time on the 28th.

When we got there on the 28th, it turned out there were two Gravities on site: the one in the showroom for viewing (and sitting), which turned out to be a beta prototype, and a release candidate car that was in the shop being used to train service technicians. No visitors were allowed to see that one.

I have a feeling the two Gravities to which the sales rep referred on Thursday were those two, and he was just confused about the one destined for the shop.

 

[thegman82]

The one item that disappointed me is the manual operation of the 2nd and 3rd rows. I wish they were power operated. This would make a flatter floor (fewer handles and such) and make it easier for smaller or weaker folks to operate.

This is apparently available in the recently reviewed version of the hyundai ioniq 9.