The Long Goodbye

[TahoeMichael]

Exactly, "Harnessing it correctly".
The concept of "AI" is more than 75 years old. Now, we are at the fringe of having the HW/SW power to instantiate "AI". in a productive way. That said, it will take more time and research before it is truly useful in things like cars, airplanes etc..
Meanwhile, my vacuum cleaner is "AI". My washing machine is "AI". my microwave oven is "AI". I feel better already!

I've worked in AI since the 80's, back when expert systems were the cool kid on the block. The joke in the AI community is that as soon as we can make something work reliably, it's not called AI anymore. Things that have been called AI in the past (tree search algorithms, to pick one example) are now widely deployed, and everyone uses them everyday without noticing. The cutting edge of big-date machine-learning based AI is far from being reliable, but the field has produced a lot of technology which is highly reliable.

 

[drb3333]

I have personally watched it forced onto developers who then completely outsource their critical thinking....

I want to echo this sentiment. And I do find it helpful in my work, so there is no doubt that AI can be useful and here to stay.

But I think the problems arise due to mandates from above by managers who are well past their prime in technical detail.
I have seen a manager run Claude to generate some hardware Verilog circuit code and claim "This looks great!" when he has absolutely no basis for judging some colorful text on a screen. I analyzed the result and all ten AI suggestions broke the hardware. Every one.

In another instance where it was to generate original circuitry, it failed worse than a freshman. But the managerial response was "Yes, but it requires incremental interaction to arrive at a correct solution". Sure, but these were conceptual and fatal errors like no reset, clock generation, clock crossings, etc.

Finally, keep in mind the training source. The very best engineers do not post their code on the web, but AI trains from available examples which are often students seeking homework help.

When considering capability along a Bell curve, the web average is the peak, so you do not achieve the superior quintile. Taken another way, those most impressed are living on the left side of distribution because it truly is smarter than them. Great companies should seek the rare right side of the distribution over the mid-point average.

 

[niceInBoston]

It's good that you have had no problems, and I truly hope there are a lot more of you out there.

But one of the things Dlala told me is that we are having so many problems because there was not enough processing headroom to run all the subsystems in a fully-optioned Dream Edition.

I wonder if those who have a Dream Edition, or fully optioned edition, and are experiencing issues would experience fewer issues if they turned off as many of the automated, or optional, systems as possible. Especially anything high compute or data intensive, such as camera systems, security, dream drive, auto open doors, car play, etc.

If it helped, they could slowly try turning the systems back on, until they started to run into the issues again.

Not that they shouldn’t be allowed to turn everything on, but if it worked, it could be a stopgap solution until the next software update.

 

[hmp10]

I wonder if those who have a Dream Edition, or fully optioned edition, and are experiencing issues would experience fewer issues if they turned off as many of the automated, or optional, systems as possible. Especially anything high compute or data intensive, such as camera systems, security, dream drive, auto open doors, car play, etc.

If it helped, they could slowly try turning the systems back on, until they started to run into the issues again.

Not that they shouldn’t be allowed to turn everything on, but if it worked, it could be a stopgap solution until the next software update.

We never use any ADAS features or CarPlay (which we've loaded in only one Gravity). I'm not even sure the owner can turn off the cameras, nor would I be willing to as I view them as critical to the safety or driving and parking such a vehicle.

 

[charleyscott]

And yours is not representative of his. There can be plenty of owners who have an experience similar to yours, and at the same time plenty of owners who have an experience similar to hmp10’s.

Not sure why this is even a discussion point - there is plenty of evidence across this very forum of happy owners and of mad owners. It doesn’t really take anyone “calling out” anyone else as if that invalidates the actual experiences. None of this is a personal attack on any individual person - after all, this is all about metal, plastic, bits and bytes, created by a company trying their best and succeeding on some fronts but failing on others.

I would encourage you to re-read the first couple of pages of the thread, because it is not just an individualized account. Instead, one user's unfortunate experience is extrapolated into a prophecy of doom for the company that is reiterated by other users---at least some of whom do not appear to be Gravity owners. I, as a satisfied Gravity (and previously Air) owner, expressed a dissenting opinion.

And I do think users are more prone to post about negative rather than positive experiences on this forum (probably on forums in general). To take myself as an example, I had been away from the forum for months since taking delivery, because I had no information to seek, and no grievances to air. As another example, the "thread for owners who report *no* problems, (or at least, very few)" is pretty dead---and that is not because there aren't any of us.


Now, back on topic: Our software experience has not been flawless. There have been error messages and resets, and the Tidal interface is awful. But---with the possible exception of the Tidal interface---nothing has put a dent in my overall satisfaction with the vehicle. Perhaps I am more accustomed to interacting with software-defined devices day-to-day, and therefore tolerant (maybe too tolerant) of minor glitches.

As for our fobs, they have worked, but I do slightly resent having had to pay for the second one.

 

[tmichael]

We never use any ADAS features or CarPlay (which we've loaded in only one Gravity). I'm not even sure the owner can turn off the cameras, nor would I be willing to as I view them as critical to the safety or driving and parking such a vehicle.

Emad referred to heavily optioned vehicles potentially using all the headroom, but I have to believe that those would be unusual cases. It would seem those would be pretty easy to detect running diagnostics in a lab as well as reading logs. In any event, my DE is relatively trouble free, but is fully loaded as well.

 

[Truthlesshunter]

The very best engineers do not post their code on the web, but AI trains from available examples which are often students seeking homework help.

this is so true. And applies to tons of other sections of the web as well. There is absolutely good information out there, but to properly build a good information database (on any subject...including databases haha), you have to be able to work through tons of different sources and discern and collate the information in the best possible way.

For the most part, it looks like most web-crawling AIs don't know how to weigh the quality of information rather than the quantity or volume of certain responses.

 

[allenmhc]

I have no issues with non-generative AI. However, the generative AI has significant issues.

I have personally watched it forced onto developers who then completely outsource their critical thinking. Even for things that are supposed to be "trivial" like building a website, a plethora of errors and inconsistencies crop up. Given their tech stack is C++ mostly, the coding assistants and agentic AI workflows are particularly ill equipped for the nuance and complexity of the language. The cognitive bias effect of AI's expertise in areas you are unfamiliar with is particularly strong and well documented.

Open source has drowned, and amongst the hype are numerous studies and research demonstrating a marked decline in quality:
2020-2024 analysis of code repos: https://www.gitclear.com/ai_assistant_code_quality_2025_research
MIT study on cognitive impacts of AI usage: https://economics.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2026-02/AI, Human Cognition and Knowledge Collapse 02-20-26.pdf
METR's first and second study comparison: https://metr.org/blog/2026-02-24-uplift-update/ (Note the selection bias heavily cited in the second study and code quality differences)

My personal experience has been witnessing the neutering of engineers of nearly all critical thinking skills and the ability to reason about new areas outside their expertise. Engineers previously capable of figuring out errors by themselves handicapped to the point of inepitude and requiring assistance to resolve issues when AI couldn't figure it out for them.

I would argue it is a reasonable take grounded in the realities of the technology's limits and effects on developers both from third party studies, observation of impacts at a Fortune 200, and personal use.

I don't want to derail this thread completely just to debate about the merits of AI, but as someone else has pointed out—the job posting and the listed use cases are less about vibe-coding C++, and more about familiarity with automated testing, log diagnosis, etc. You're taking 3–4 unfounded mental leaps to go from "I don't like how my colleagues zone out when using AI" → "Lucid engineers can only build a platform if they grep their logs manually."

 

[hmp10]

As another example, the "thread for owners who report *no* problems, (or at least, very few)" is pretty dead---and that is not because there aren't any of us.

That could just as easily mean there aren't enough problem-free owners to keep such a thread alive. I'm curious why you think it must mean that the great majority of Gravity owners aren't having any problems.

I did take a look at that thread, though. I was surprised to see that @gaskiller, who has claimed repeatedly on this thread that his experience is far more representative than mine of what other owners might experience, owns a Lucid Air Touring, not a Gravity.

We're not having any significant problems these days with our Air, either. In fact, that's why I took the leap on ordering two Gravities prior to their release.

 

[hmp10]

Emad referred to heavily optioned vehicles potentially using all the headroom, but I have to believe that those would be unusual cases. It would seem those would be pretty easy to detect running diagnostics in a lab as well as reading logs. In any event, my DE is relatively trouble free, but is fully loaded as well.

I'm a Luddite, so help me here. When Dlala said this, I figured it meant that all the systems were continuously running in the background whether they were being used or not.

Is that not the case?

I assume that Lucid is reading the logs when working on problems, as they have always asked me for specific dates and times when issues have occurred. It's why I often try to photograph glitches so that I have a date and time stamp I can give them. However, sometimes they've told me that the logs are not reflecting a behavior that I have documented by photo or video. Such has been the case with the errant LED strip in the dashboard ambient lighting. The logs have shown nothing at the times I have photos of it clearly malfunctioning. Even the Miami Service Center said they detected a miscalibration in the strip software that was causing the problem.

I've also had instances where Lucid is seeing something that I'm not. For example, one time I couldn't get the car in gear no matter what I tried to do. So I called Customer Service, who told me it was because the driver-side rear passenger door was open. No one had been in the back seat that entire day, although I had run some errands. I told her there was no "open door" warning being displayed in the car, but she said she was seeing on at her end. So I got out, anyway, to check the door. It was securely closed with the handle retracted and perfectly aligned with the surrounding panels, but I opened and closed it again. The car finally went into gear.

 

[heronview]

From the moment I was told about Lucid in 2016 I became intrigued. The Air prototype broke so many automotive molds at once, and the credentials of the engineering team were so impressive, that I began following everything I could find about the company. When reservations opened, I was near the head of the line for a Dream Edition. When the first pre-production Air hit the new Lucid showroom in Miami I was there for opening day, and seeing and sitting in that display car simply blew me away.

As soon as the Lucid stock moved out of the SPAC phase, I invested enthusiastically and continued to do so for some time – not because I didn’t know it was risky but because I wanted to support Lucid’s stated mission and the technology behind it.

In the decade since the first prototype was revealed I have followed the company assiduously and supported it by buying its products . . . a total of five Lucids, three of which are currently sitting in our garage: an Air Dream Edition Performance and two Gravity Dream Editions.

So where is my head today about this company?

Well, I have written off my stock investment. I’m not angry about that, as I’m a big boy and understood the risk.

And I have reveled in the fun and comfort of driving Lucids on those days when they are mostly functioning as intended.

But the Gravities have finally broken me. They have the power, handling, style, room, comfort, and structural solidity that is – or should be – the hallmark of the brand. But they also have the more regrettable hallmark of woefully troublesome software.

The software improvements that eventually came to the Air and brought it up to acceptable standards of everyday reliability have sadly eluded the Gravity, and they don’t appear to be anywhere on the horizon.

We’re going to keep the three Lucids we have for a while yet, mostly because I have put close to $20,000 into each car for radar detection systems and PPF protection. And I will keep posting of our experiences with driving and servicing them as they unfold.

Beyond that, though, the exhaustion of dealing with unrelenting Gravity software glitches – even reaching to opening up the cars and starting a drive – has finally worn me down.

We will not be buying another Lucid product in our household as the Gravities have proved to be too erratic and unreliable for everyday transportation needs, and I'm not one for collecting Garage Queens.

It may soon be a moot point. If Lucid rolls out the Cosmos to the mass market with anything like the software problems of the Gravity, the company won’t be around to sell anything, anyway.

I’m relatively new to Lucid. I took delivery of my Gravity in December 2025 with the understanding that I’d be something of an early adopter. So far, I’ve experienced a few issues—some of which have already been resolved through software updates.

I don’t know much about Lucid’s history beyond the fact that the Air began production in 2021. As with any brand‑new vehicle built on new technology, there are bound to be growing pains. It seems you were comfortable with that progression, since you went on to purchase additional Airs.

Is the Gravity really that different from the Air? Is it a completely new design that doesn’t share technology or software with the Air at all?

 

[ke2]

I've been having lots of key fob problems so I decided to take the battery out to the two fob's we have. Since I have done this the fob's are working amazingly well. I walk up to the car and the car unlocks and presents the door handles in a reasonable amount of time. Locking also happens in a reasonable amount of time, I don't have to walk away and then stand around waiting (hoping?) for the car to lock. As someone(s) have stated it would be nice to have the option of the sound when the car locks so if I go around a corner and am out of site of the car I'll know the car locked.

I'm of the opinion that removing the battery on the fob is the only way to do a reset of the fob software and while there may be problems with the software on the gravity side of things I'm beginning to believe there's definitely a problem with the software on the fob side of things.

So a question, can/does Lucid push small software updates without mentioning it or is the OTA update only a updating everything at once method?

 

[hwy17er]

I wonder if those who have a Dream Edition, or fully optioned edition, and are experiencing issues would experience fewer issues if they turned off as many of the automated, or optional, systems as possible. Especially anything high compute or data intensive, such as camera systems, security, dream drive, auto open doors, car play, etc.

If it helped, they could slowly try turning the systems back on, until they started to run into the issues again.

Not that they shouldn’t be allowed to turn everything on, but if it worked, it could be a stopgap solution until the next software update.

You might be onto something here as I have DDPrem and have a lot of the automated features switched off. I don't really care for lane change assist or lane departure intervention because I like to drive my cars myself and coming off a 6speed stick transitioning to the precise control of the vehicle with one pedal driving has been much easier than I imagined.
I also opted no HUD/tech pkg and use CarPlay's Apple Music/IMaps for music/nav so generally not taxing the processor as much as others that rely more on the various native systems. Not sure any of that has to do with my lack of fob issues so maybe I'm just fortunate there? I do slip my fob into a Faraday pouch as soon as I walk in the door both at my office and at home and have only replaced the battery once as I pulled it out to test it out of curiosity and found it in the low range.

I definitely feel for those still experiencing all these bugs but it now sounds form @hmp10 's phone call w/ Emad that there's definitely serious awareness at the top level at Lucid so my hope for everyone is that there's relief form all this mayhem in sight.

 

[Bdr100]

I wonder if those who have a Dream Edition, or fully optioned edition, and are experiencing issues would experience fewer issues if they turned off as many of the automated, or optional, systems as possible. Especially anything high compute or data intensive, such as camera systems, security, dream drive, auto open doors, car play, etc.

If it helped, they could slowly try turning the systems back on, until they started to run into the issues again.

Not that they shouldn’t be allowed to turn everything on, but if it worked, it could be a stopgap solution until the next software update.

I have a fully optioned Gravity (non DE) and do not have anywhere near the number of issues as HMP10. No, my GGT is not problem free but issues are more in the mildly irritating. I would be willing to bet that my experience is closer to the norm for most owners.

 

[msaunders9430]

I have a fully optioned Gravity (non DE) and do not have anywhere near the number of issues as HMP10. No, my GGT is not problem free but issues are more in the mildly irritating. I would be willing to bet that my experience is closer to the norm for most owners.

I can say the same for my Gravity.
However, the challenge is that only Lucid knows what the actual norm is.

Fortunately, based on the communication that @hmp10 and others have had with Lucid leadership, they understand the importance of having as many owners as possible with minimal to no issues. Minimal to no issues should be the ultimate norm. A goal that every company should strive toward and one that Lucid appears to be working toward.

 

[socktucker]

That could just as easily mean there aren't enough problem-free owners to keep such a thread alive. I'm curious why you think it must mean that the great majority of Gravity owners aren't having any problems.

I did take a look at that thread, though. I was surprised to see that @gaskiller, who has claimed repeatedly on this thread that his experience is far more representative than mine of what other owners might experience, owns a Lucid Air Touring, not a Gravity.

We're not having any significant problems these days with our Air, either. In fact, that's why I took the leap on ordering two Gravities prior to their release.

its been tried a few times...

 

[TahoeMichael]

All that anyone here can really say for sure is that there are quite a few very happy Gravity owners, and quite a few who are extremely frustrated with the bugs, and Lucid appears to think the problems are serious. Establishing the ratio of trouble-free to troublesome vehicles is probably impossible given the data available to us, and the inherent sampling bias of who decides to come to the forum and who does not. Lucid may have better data on that, but they're unlikely to want to share it. I personally don't think Emad is a dishonest person, although obviously he has quite a bias from his senior leadership position at Lucid, and so I generally trust what he said when he talked to @hmp10.

 

[9.81ms2]

I'm going to have to disagree here. I've never had any trouble with my fob. Every time I walk up to the vehicle it presents the handles within 10sec, usually and more often within say 4sec.
It always locks when I walk away, usually about 40-50ft out.

I've wondered if I'm an anomaly or in the majority, but I doubt it as most owners w/o issues wouldn't bother to come on here and report their lack of problems.

Gravity is beyond fun to drive: roomy w/ lots of cargo space, handles like a sportscar and thrilling (to some even terrifyingly quick). It charges as fast as my wife's Taycan if not faster, so far can easily go 385-400mi on a full charge even if there's elevation gain (we'll see next winter) and it comfortable and quiet on long trips.
IDK...I'm really happy at this point still.

I think maybe I agree w/ @borski that a lot of owners need a new fob...who knows??

(BTW...please, everyone cease and desist typing "FOB" as it's a racial slur that means Fresh Off the Boat; Lowercase "fob" is a real word. You could even use it in Scrabble)

How frequently do you change the fob battery?
My experience has been first month of new battery I am not waiting on handles to present doors lock when walking away. Week 5 and 6 handles slower to present, I start using key card or phone to unlock. On walk away, doors sometimes fail to lock. I put in new battery 3.25 , old battery that I replaced reports 2.95 charge.

 

[ke2]

How frequently do you change the fob battery?
My experience has been first month of new battery I am not waiting on handles to present doors lock when walking away. Week 5 and 6 handles slower to present, I start using key card or phone to unlock. On walk away, doors sometimes fail to lock. I put in new battery 3.25 , old battery that I replaced reports 2.95 charge.

I've only replaced the battery on our two key fob's once in the almost six months we've owned the Gravity. I've recently removed the battery and reinserted the same battery in both our key fob's and the key fob's are working quite well. I think the removal of the battery reset the key fob software to the base state.

 

[drb3333]

I don't have any insight into their platform details, but given that I've seen mention of them running containers, it could be anything from:

- changing from running kubernetes to running basic docker containers (or vice versa)
- changing from running heavy Ubuntu/Debian containers to running super slimmed down Alpine
- Changing the language certain parts of the code are written in (eg replacing some slow parts of interpreted code with compiled code or even assembly)
- changing to a faster type of database for storing data locally
-changing to a better/faster/more-reliable message queue platform

or it could be one (or more) of a dozen other things.

This is out of my league, and I am admittedly old-school. Seeking input from up-to-date colleagues on the forum.
But the concept of using virtualization in any latency-sensitive environment horrifies me. Please talk me down off the ledge.
Most the above primarily benefit developers but are less effective in deployment in my limited experience (but I do know some about RTOS and responsive firmware).
Is it possible that Lucid is using docker containers in full VMs like Ubuntu and expecting any kind of reasonable response times to round-robin polling? Yikes.