The Long Goodbye

[charleyscott]

Why do I get the impression that you have some personal stake in all this somehow?

Sure, I'll admit it: I, personally, would like to see Lucid succeed. Not because I stand to gain financially (our small investment is deep underwater) or because I am worried about long-term maintenance (we have a 3-year lease), but rather because I think it would be good for society in several ways. Of greater importance, I'm also a big fan of our Gravity, even more so than I was of our Air.

All that being the case, I think it's worthwhile for me to call out the fact that your own personal ownership experience---while clearly a source of genuine frustration to you---is not representative of mine.

 

[Rogue]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if using agentic AI slop is their answer to stronger quality controls, everyone is in for a rough ride.

This is only on one job posting. However, AI slop is the absolute worst case scenario for a car handling systems that must work every time without fail.

The number of "new" platforms discussed is concerning over the past few years. You need at least two given the Air is on a dual processor setup and the Gravity a single processor.

Given they are hitting compute limits on relatively new hardware... I can't even wrap my head around how you do that unless performance is the lowest priority. Before folks go pre-optimization or performance but not stability, you would be astounded by the simplicity of the solutions, stability of those solutions, and the testability that are natural byproducts of prioritizing performance.

My hope is that they would clamp down on the AI slop and legitimately double down on a platform to make it work. Constantly shifting the goalposts and introducing the slop is legitimately the quickest way to derail a codebase.

 

[ejesse]

Can anyone explain in layman's terms what the "new platform architecture" means? I can only conjecture

I am not familiar with car-specific software development, but based on the job listings, presumably Emad is referring to this: https://www.autosar.org/

I guess the other possibility is that they are moving away from that, but seems odd they would recruit for it in that case.

 

[Need4Sleep]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if using agentic AI slop is their answer to stronger quality controls, everyone is in for a rough ride.

This is only on one job posting. However, AI slop is the absolute worst case scenario for a car handling systems that must work every time without fail.

The number of "new" platforms discussed is concerning over the past few years. You need at least two given the Air is on a dual processor setup and the Gravity a single processor.

Given they are hitting compute limits on relatively new hardware... I can't even wrap my head around how you do that unless performance is the lowest priority. Before folks go pre-optimization or performance but not stability, you would be astounded by the simplicity of the solutions, stability of those solutions, and the testability that are natural byproducts of prioritizing performance.

My hope is that they would clamp down on the AI slop and legitimately double down on a platform to make it work. Constantly shifting the goalposts and introducing the slop is legitimately the quickest way to derail a codebase.

Their platform provider probably has some AI programming assistant or some LLM that was trained on the platform documentation. That, or the HR staffer that wrote it has no idea what the role needs. I did notice that it's all under "bonus" sections, so I suspect the whole AI part is not needed.

Unless they're talking about old-school machine learning, which I can kind of see. Sucks that we have to loop the old school methods under the "AI" umbrella. I wouldn't be surprised if even basic linear models are being marketed as "AI"

 

[Need4Sleep]

Sure, I'll admit it: I, personally, would like to see Lucid succeed. Not because I stand to gain financially (our small investment is deep underwater) or because I am worried about long-term maintenance (we have a 3-year lease), but rather because I think it would be good for society in several ways. Of greater importance, I'm also a big fan of our Gravity, even more so than I was of our Air.

All that being the case, I think it's worthwhile for me to call out the fact that your own personal ownership experience---while clearly a source of genuine frustration to you---is not representative of mine.

Even if it isn't, it's still an error case that needs to be designed and addressed. Edge case or not, these are the kinds of situations that a robust and mature software project needs to be able to address.

 

[hmp10]

Sure, I'll admit it: I, personally, would like to see Lucid succeed. Not because I stand to gain financially (our small investment is deep underwater) or because I am worried about long-term maintenance (we have a 3-year lease), but rather because I think it would be good for society in several ways. Of greater importance, I'm also a big fan of our Gravity, even more so than I was of our Air.

All that being the case, I think it's worthwhile for me to call out the fact that your own personal ownership experience---while clearly a source of genuine frustration to you---is not representative of mine.

You know, there’s a way to call something out without insulting personal insinuations about someone.

Just sayin’.

 

[Leftlane]

Sure, I'll admit it: I, personally, would like to see Lucid succeed. Not because I stand to gain financially (our small investment is deep underwater) or because I am worried about long-term maintenance (we have a 3-year lease), but rather because I think it would be good for society in several ways. Of greater importance, I'm also a big fan of our Gravity, even more so than I was of our Air.

All that being the case, I think it's worthwhile for me to call out the fact that your own personal ownership experience---while clearly a source of genuine frustration to you---is not representative of mine.

And yours is not representative of his. There can be plenty of owners who have an experience similar to yours, and at the same time plenty of owners who have an experience similar to hmp10’s.

Not sure why this is even a discussion point - there is plenty of evidence across this very forum of happy owners and of mad owners. It doesn’t really take anyone “calling out” anyone else as if that invalidates the actual experiences. None of this is a personal attack on any individual person - after all, this is all about metal, plastic, bits and bytes, created by a company trying their best and succeeding on some fronts but failing on others.

 

[ClearlyLucid]

Given they are hitting compute limits on relatively new hardware... I can't even wrap my head around how you do that unless performance is the lowest priority. Before folks go pre-optimization or performance but not stability, you would be astounded by the simplicity of the solutions, stability of those solutions, and the testability that are natural byproducts of prioritizing performance.

Speaking of compute limits…

My DE has been relatively problem free, except for the minor bags that the last update mostly fixed (blank screens, etc.)

I ran an errand today and went to the garage without my fob, so I decided to use the card in my wallet. Worked fine and off we go. However, upon returning to my car after the errand the driver’s door handle wouldn’t present. Nor would the mirror unfold. So, I had to get in the back seat and reach over the center console to unlock the door from the inside. I did 2 hard resets in the parking lot and handle & mirror continued to not function. None of the windows would go down either.

The errors on the Clearview were: 1) door latch not functioning-drive carefully, 2) turn signal error, 3) auto adjusting suspension error. I drove the car home and grabbed the key fob hoping to get the car to act normally. No improvement. More hard resets. Handle & mirror still malfunctioning. Now I’m getting steamed because I’m going to have to call CS and schedule service.

So, I go inside and let the car sleep for 15 minutes. Go to garage with fob and now handle & mirror present at unlock as expected. Drive to/from Costco and car behaves normally.

So, there is definitely a problem when this car goes to sleep and has to wake up. In general it feels like the is a lack of processing power/bandwidth.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that their experience is fully representative of everyone else's. Nor would it need to be in order for it to be a significant problem for the company.

There's clearly a lot of ongoing problems being reported, many of them being repeated by lots of posters here. Many are even acknowledged by Lucid. It doesn't have to affect 80% of vehicles to be a serious problem, or even 50%. Even just 20% experiencing the same issue is a problem. And worthy of sharing/discussing here. For those not experiencing the same issues, then great! But they're still issues that need to be addressed. Not sure why that's being met with some pushback.

 

[Need4Sleep]

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that their experience is fully representative of everyone else's. Nor would it need to be in order for it to be a significant problem for the company.

There's clearly a lot of ongoing problems being reported, many of them being repeated by lots of posters here. Many are even acknowledged by Lucid. It doesn't have to affect 80% of vehicles to be a serious problem, or even 50%. Even just 20% experiencing the same issue is a problem. And worthy of sharing/discussing here. For those not experiencing the same issues, then great! But they're still issues that need to be addressed. Not sure why that's being met with some pushback.

Exactly. Even if the rate of software issues were to be low, at the scale that Lucid wants to achieve, the raw number alone would be a problem. Which is why the software issues need to be addressed no matter how rare.

 

[scal_air]

It is sad to see a long time owner and multiple Lucid purchaser reach his breaking point. We have had many sprinted discussions over the years. I am a stockholder (at a significant paper loss) and Lucid Air owner for 3 years. There were some little things, somewhat expected for a new model/manufacturer but there was excellent service responses especially with mobile service. There was definite optimism for the future of the brand. I think that @hmp10 identified the issue that the 2 Gravities were significantly more problematic than the Air. That combined with a worsening service experience, has rapidly eroded the goodwill that was built up in the early years. If you read through this forum, many supporters have become more neutral or negative regarding the brand. If these are your goodwill ambassadors, I would be alarmed at the direction of the company. Many can no longer recommend Lucid to their family and friends. Yes, money is an issue, but what is the utility of producing a car with a good profit margin that no one will buy???.

The immediate issue that needs to be addressed is service. They currently cannot handle the volume of Air and Gravity needs - months for an appointment for a luxury car (if you can even reach them) will not garner satisfied owners. And you want to talk about midsize??!!

 

[BS8899]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if using agentic AI slop is their answer to stronger quality controls, everyone is in for a rough ride.

This is only on one job posting. However, AI slop is the absolute worst case scenario for a car handling systems that must work every time without fail.

The number of "new" platforms discussed is concerning over the past few years. You need at least two given the Air is on a dual processor setup and the Gravity a single processor.

Given they are hitting compute limits on relatively new hardware... I can't even wrap my head around how you do that unless performance is the lowest priority. Before folks go pre-optimization or performance but not stability, you would be astounded by the simplicity of the solutions, stability of those solutions, and the testability that are natural byproducts of prioritizing performance.

My hope is that they would clamp down on the AI slop and legitimately double down on a platform to make it work. Constantly shifting the goalposts and introducing the slop is legitimately the quickest way to derail a codebase.

I think @Rogue has a point.

I am no AI expert, so I won't opine on the job description.

Here are my concerns:

> every platform at Lucid is running out of compute horse-power and in need of HW upgrade
> Cosmos debut is supposed to be Q4'26

I think many of us agree the SW is the weaklink in Lucid's product lines. BUT in the time frame of interest, is Lucid taking the right path to correct these problems?

 

[dbsb3233]

The immediate issue that needs to be addressed is service. They currently cannot handle the volume of Air and Gravity needs - months for an appointment for a luxury car (if you can even reach them) will not garner satisfied owners. And you want to talk about midsize??!!

Yes, I meant to list that in my earlier post, but the reports we're seeing about service backlogs and wait times (as well as inability to fix many things) are becoming alarming. And another sign of a company really struggling.

I've yet to schedule service for anything yet. So far my complaints have remained mostly broader annoyances rather than broken things that need service. So I suppose I've been fortunate in that regard. But I also haven't driven the car a lot yet (only 1700 miles), although that will change in a month when the free year of EA runs out in our Macan. The Gravity takes over on road trips from there. We do ~20k miles/year in road trips. I may find more issues then.

 

[LVAGT]

I really don’t know why mine just works

You are probably just a very, very patient person. What does your wife say about that?

When I buy stuff, no matter the price, I just want it to work how it's supposed to work. If I have to go to a forum to figure out some things, it's not working out for me lol. Again, life is too short to figure out the small nuisance of the car.

 

[hmp10]

When I buy stuff, no matter the price, I just want it to work how it's supposed to work. If I have to go to a forum to figure out some things, it's not working out for me lol. Again, life is too short to figure out the small nuisance of the car.

You are, of course, right that life is too short to worry too much about a car.

Unfortunately, for those of us who take special pleasure in driving and could not care a whit about things such as ADAS, the allure of a Lucid when everything is working right is so incredibly strong that we are willing to spend inordinate amounts of time on things like trying to overcome the annoyances.

One of the reasons I get so exercised about what the software puts some of us through is that the Air and the Gravity are so damn good otherwise. It just sometimes feels like the gods are maliciously teasing us by giving us these superb driving machines with one hand and slapping us around with the other.

 

[scal_air]

You are probably just a very, very patient person. What does your wife say about that?

When I buy stuff, no matter the price, I just want it to work how it's supposed to work. If I have to go to a forum to figure out some things, it's not working out for me lol. Again, life is too short to figure out the small nuisance of the car.

@borski is a problem solver. I'm sure things that would perplex other people, he figures out on the fly.

 

[Need4Sleep]

I think @Rogue has a point.

I am no AI expert, so I won't opine on the job description.

Here are my concerns:

> every platform at Lucid is running out of compute horse-power and in need of HW upgrade
> Cosmos debut is supposed to be Q4'26

I think many of us agree the SW is the weaklink in Lucid's product lines. BUT in the time frame of interest, is Lucid taking the right path to correct these problems?

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the midsize reveal would be pushed back towards early 2027, but I do recall Lucid says they intend to keep the 2027 ramp-up to stay on track

 

[The_Don]

Yes, I meant to list that in my earlier post, but the reports we're seeing about service backlogs and wait times (as well as inability to fix many things) are becoming alarming. And another sign of a company really struggling.

I've yet to schedule service for anything yet. So far my complaints have remained mostly broader annoyances rather than broken things that need service. So I suppose I've been fortunate in that regard. But I also haven't driven the car a lot yet (only 1700 miles), although that will change in a month when the free year of EA runs out in our Macan. The Gravity takes over on road trips from there. We do ~20k miles/year in road trips. I may find more issues then.

A lot of the service overload is tied to poor software on the Gravity. Most people don't check forums when their car isn't working how it should, so they'll call service for software-related issues. I'd be willing to bet that wait times improve dramatically if they make meaningful improvements on software in the next couple of months.

 

[Bonanzajohn]

if i have a question duppot always answers. my gravity has a few soffware glitches occasionally but i love it. I struggled with my Air and everything ended up awesome. I hope the same happens soon with the Gravity

 

[BS8899]

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the midsize reveal would be pushed back towards early 2027, but I do recall Lucid says they intend to keep the 2027 ramp-up to stay on track

It would be a miracle if Lucid can launch Cosmo in early 2027! Not talking about a paper launch. Consequential shipped to public volume. If they can ship 1,000+ REVENUE units by mid 2027, Lucid will be doing wel. But that still puts Lucid 1 year behind Rivian and 9 months or so behind BMW/Volvo.