The complete package: EV, solar, battery, and bi-directional charging.

[copper]

I would love to play energy arbitrage here in SD. Our differential is even larger from a super off peak of about 11 cents to an on-peak at 65.

I am so glad I don't have to deal with SDG&E's insane rates anymore now that I'm in NorCal. That said, PG&E won't give me the separate meter for my charger any longer for reasons they can't explain even themselves, so it isn't all kittens and unicorns here either.

I'm unable to do solar in our neighborhood but as soon as the Lucid charger is out I'll be installing it so we can do V2H during outages. We can get lengthy outages after storms and are often some of the last to get power back. Many of my neighbors have power walls or other batteries and every time we get a big outage a few more add them - almost the entire street at this point!

 

[Sandvinsd]

I am so glad I don't have to deal with SDG&E's insane rates anymore now that I'm in NorCal. That said, PG&E won't give me the separate meter for my charger any longer for reasons they can't explain even themselves, so it isn't all kittens and unicorns here either.

I'm unable to do solar in our neighborhood but as soon as the Lucid charger is out I'll be installing it so we can do V2H during outages. We can get lengthy outages after storms and are often some of the last to get power back. Many of my neighbors have power walls or other batteries and every time we get a big outage a few more add them - almost the entire street at this point!

I have been wanting the bidirectional capabilities, but am still considering a back-up battery to our solar power. I installed back in 2004 and they didn’t have batteries back then. Someday, I believe, they will allow battery to grid, but it just won’t be at the rates we have today. I also see the day when super-off peak is not at night, but rather during the day when the solar is producing, or the complete opposite of what it was back in 2004. At that point we will be allowed to pump from batteries into the grid to help with the ”duck curve” and to deal with the high night power consumption due to EV charging.

 

[pam4_AGT]

Hmm, I specifically asked my solar installer if we could do that exact scenario, where the battery is charged during the day via solar and then use the battery stored energy during peak times to offset the bill and they told me that SCE does not allow that setup.

@hydbob , I cannot speak for SCE but I can for PG&E here in the Bay Area. It's much easier explaining with a picture below. It shows how the 10kWh battery gets charged during daytime and then gets discharged (all the way down to 10%) during night. The peak time for me is 4pm-9pm and the battery is discharged just enough to balance out my usage. There is no power being sent back to the grid from the battery (that was probably a requirement). The red in the graph below is power being drawn from the grid.

FYI... the peak SOC for my LGchem battery was lowered from 100% to 75% due to an ongoing battery recall due to overheating. The replacement was promised initially in Oct of last year, then Q1 of this year but I still don't have it and you know the reason ---- wait for it ---- supply chain issues!!

 

[borski]

@hydbob , I cannot speak for SCE but I can for PG&E here in the Bay Area. It's much easier explaining with a picture below. It shows how the 10kWh battery gets charged during daytime and then gets discharged (all the way down to 10%) during night. The peak time for me is 4pm-9pm and the battery is discharged just enough to balance out my usage. There is no power being sent back to the grid from the battery (that was probably a requirement). The red in the graph below is power being drawn from the grid.

FYI... the peak SOC for my LGchem battery was lowered from 100% to 75% due to an ongoing battery recall due to overheating. The replacement was promised initially in Oct of last year, then Q1 of this year but I still don't have it and you know the reason ---- wait for it ---- supply chain issues!!

View attachment 1413

I just realized we may have been talking past each other… it is true that you cannot send power from the batteries directly back to the grid. That isn’t what I meant.

The batteries power your home during peak times and you send all *solar* back to the grid during those times, such that you are not paying peak prices for pulling from the grid (since you’re running off batteries) and you are getting paid peak prices for the solar you’re sending back (during the hours the sun is still up).

That is what both PG&E and SCE allow. I think @hydbob may have been saying they disallow sending energy from *batteries* directly to the grid, which is true, and not what I meant.

Mea culpa!

 

[pam4_AGT]

The batteries power your home during peak times and you send all *solar* back to the grid during those times, such that you are not paying peak prices for pulling from the grid (since you’re running off batteries) and you are getting paid peak prices for the solar you’re sending back (during the hours the sun is still up)

FYI... even in the middle of summer, the solar panels aren't producing a lot during this peak time (4pm - 9pm).. In winter, it's basically zero.

 

[hydbob]

I just realized we may have been talking past each other… it is true that you cannot send power from the batteries directly back to the grid. That isn’t what I meant.

The batteries power your home during peak times and you send all *solar* back to the grid during those times, such that you are not paying peak prices for pulling from the grid (since you’re running off batteries) and you are getting paid peak prices for the solar you’re sending back (during the hours the sun is still up).

That is what both PG&E and SCE allow. I think @hydbob may have been saying they disallow sending energy from *batteries* directly to the grid, which is true, and not what I meant.

Mea culpa!

Yep thats what I meant and realized we were discussing 2 different things after reading Pam's post

 

[Boomer AZ]

It sounded to good to be true, which is why it's not. It may change when SCE is no longer required to buy back the electricity at the rate you send it back into the grid though.

My son is on SCE and just installed solar and batteries. SCE doesn’t allow him to produce more than 125% of his average consumption. This greatly limits his ability to make money by selling power. He also has net metering.

In Arizona and APS, I sell power at $0.104 and buy power at $0.076 (off peak). So I only use my PowerWalls during Peak hours and emergencies. I produce 12.4kW of solar. Fairly large home with 4 HVACs. I produce all the electric power I need and get a $900 check from APS every year.

 

[DeaneG]

Some countries have had negative power pricing during peak solar periods. California isn't there yet, but you can see it as an eventual possibility.

 

[LuciPearl]

42 panel system gets installed at end of April. Will have 30kWh total battery backup. If latest update from DA is correct GT delivery will be in the June/July timeframe. Will get a bidirectional charger when available, I'm told 3rd quarter, we will see.

Here in Texas we went through the freeze a year ago with minimal, rolling intermittent power. Wife was not happy. When she is not happy, I am not happy. Goal of our system is to be nearly energy independent such that if another 7+ day interval with minimal power occurs it will have little to no impact on our lives.

Can't sell more to power company than they sell to us, but hopefully I can manage it well to end up with minimal electric bills. If you do sell more to them than they sell to you during APR-DEC then you get bounced from their program for one year. We do not have off peak and peak times, constant price of $0.139/kWh to buy and $.109/kWh when selling to power company. This month I plan to investigate other power companies for more favorable terms. With that price differential and the size (panels and storage) of this system arbitrage isn't an option and I may not even bother changing companies as things have gone well with this power company since moving here 10 years ago.

GT will only be used as a backup in real emergency, hopefully it never gets used. But that storage does provide a lot of peace of mind. Got to keep the wife happy.

It took a lot of time over a 2 month learning period to make I sure I knew what I wanted and could actually get what I wanted. Went with the same microinverter and battery manufacturer so that if a problem occurs there can be no finger pointing at "another" company as the source of the problem. In my research I found too many instances of finger-pointing issues that homeowners have to deal with. Problems may occur with a low probability but it seemed finger pointing occurred at a high probability. I just didn't want to deal with that.

Hopefully this system will meet my goals.

 

[MPawelek]

If you don’t mind telling who in Texas are you buying from?

 

[borski]

FYI... even in the middle of summer, the solar panels aren't producing a lot during this peak time (4pm - 9pm).. In winter, it's basically zero.

I agree - still better than nothing, though, and keeps me from having to pay the peak rates because I can run off batteries during that period.

 

[LuciPearl]

If you don’t mind telling who in Texas are you buying from?

I'm not sure I can do that on this public forum. But I can say the company is definitely in TEXAS and it is definitely a SOLAR company.

 

[LuciPearl]

I'm not sure I can do that on this public forum. But I can say the company is definitely in TEXAS and it is definitely a SOLAR company.

I should add they did not design the system, they are only installing it. I worked with another organization on the design. That company is also in the SOLAR business and I would mention their name here but it might lead to a SURGE in their business. If you searched YouTube you are probably familiar with that company. They even arranged for me to have a video conference with the maker of the battery and microinvertors as I had a few questions regarding their products and I wanted the Owners Guides for their products....and those were provided.

 

[Bbq9]

Hmm, I specifically asked my solar installer if we could do that exact scenario, where the battery is charged during the day via solar and then use the battery stored energy during peak times to offset the bill and they told me that SCE does not allow that setup.

That’s exactly what I do … but City of Palo Alto runs its own utility, so I don’t even need to use PG&E

 

[borski]

That’s exactly what I do … but City of Palo Alto runs its own utility, so I don’t even need to use PG&E

And I’m on Silicon Valley Clean Energy, which is a separate generation company but uses PG&E for delivery. The nice part about SVCE is I signed up for their GreenPrime service which means I pay an extra $0.008/kWh for 100% solar generation, but also means I get paid an extra $0.008/kWh I send back. Win-win.

They also pay 2x the excess NEM rate for excess solar. It still isn’t much, but hey it’s twice as much.

 

[GEWC]

And I’m on Silicon Valley Clean Energy, which is a separate generation company but uses PG&E for delivery. The nice part about SVCE is I signed up for their GreenPrime service which means I pay an extra $0.008/kWh for 100% solar generation, but also means I get paid an extra $0.008/kWh I send back. Win-win.

They also pay 2x the excess NEM rate for excess solar. It still isn’t much, but hey it’s twice as much.

That's who we have - I had no idea they paid extra for excess solar. Time to change my powerwall settings.

That said, in answer to the original question, we have a Tesla solar roof, 2 powerwalls and 2 EVs plus one plug in hybrid. For now we don't plan to get the Lucid charger, but you never know.

To anyone considering a Tesla solar roof, unless you have a simple roof, I would not do it again if you paid me triple what we paid to install it. And even then I'd think twice. Tesla is a freaking nightmare to deal with and the numerous problems they themselves cause are not worth the months long stress. And on top of that is is really ugly, which just pisses me off. (sorry, end rant)

 

[borski]

That's who we have - I had no idea they paid extra for excess solar. Time to change my powerwall settings.

That said, in answer to the original question, we have a Tesla solar roof, 2 powerwalls and 2 EVs plus one plug in hybrid. For now we don't plan to get the Lucid charger, but you never know.

To anyone considering a Tesla solar roof, unless you have a simple roof, I would not do it again if you paid me triple what we paid to install it. And even then I'd think twice. Tesla is a freaking nightmare to deal with and the numerous problems they themselves cause are not worth the months long stress. And on top of that is is really ugly, which just pisses me off. (sorry, end rant)

SVCE *used* to pay the full retail rate for excess solar, which was amazing. Now it’s 2x the PGE rate, which is still better than nothing.

And consider GreenPrime - it’s better for the environment and it somewhat evens out (for me) with getting paid the extra for what I contribute back to the grid. but for a few bucks a month I’d do it either way.

Rooftop Solar

Power your home and vehicle with clean electricity from rooftop solar energy. Save money while reducing your impact on the environment.

www.svcleanenergy.org

 

[GEWC]

SVCE *used* to pay the full retail rate for excess solar, which was amazing. Now it’s 2x the PGE rate, which is still better than nothing.

And consider GreenPrime - it’s better for the environment and it somewhat evens out (for me) with getting paid the extra for what I contribute back to the grid. but for a few bucks a month I’d do it either way.

Rooftop Solar

Power your home and vehicle with clean electricity from rooftop solar energy. Save money while reducing your impact on the environment.

www.svcleanenergy.org

Is GreenPrime different than what our local cities/towns currently get? I assume your town is like mine where you have to opt out of clean energy.

 

[borski]

Is GreenPrime different than what our local cities/towns currently get? I assume your town is like mine where you have to opt out of clean energy.

Yup. GreenPrime is an optional opt-in on top of the default opt-in to SVCE. By default, you are enrolled in GreenStart, which is 50% renewable energy.

You can upgrade to GreenPrime here: https://www.svcleanenergy.org/greenprime/

It costs you $0.008/kWh over the normal rates, but you also get paid $0.008/kWh more for any solar you put back into the grid. More info on how it affects NEM here: https://www.svcleanenergy.org/solar/

For 2022, it's all wind energy from WA / B.C. - https://www.svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/SVCE-Green-e-PCL-and-PTC_2022_digital.pdf

 

[tuccur]

th

That's who we have - I had no idea they paid extra for excess solar. Time to change my powerwall settings.

That said, in answer to the original question, we have a Tesla solar roof, 2 powerwalls and 2 EVs plus one plug in hybrid. For now we don't plan to get the Lucid charger, but you never know.

To anyone considering a Tesla solar roof, unless you have a simple roof, I would not do it again if you paid me triple what we paid to install it. And even then I'd think twice. Tesla is a freaking nightmare to deal with and the numerous problems they themselves cause are not worth the months long stress. And on top of that is is really ugly, which just pisses me off. (sorry, end rant)

this is what I was wondering and I’ve heard other bad stories…