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Road and Track review

Lucken

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Personally, I assess the noise levels not solely by the comments of one reviewer, but rather by the repeated recordings we've seen taken from inside a Lucid. Every one that I've seen has recorded apparent noise levels higher than what I'm accustomed to seeing on the many many BEV reviews I've seen over the past several years. Now yes, one can make an argument regarding the recording equipment used, the mic used, the placement of the mics, on & on. However with that said, it's always struck me as being odd that the Lucid stands out in almost all of these recordings, as having higher 'apparent' noise levels than some other BEV reviews/ride-alongs. Contrast this to Conner's review recorded within the EQS. The difference is notable. Did Conner intentionally doctor the mics & recording to make the EQS sound quieter? I seriously doubt that.

These are simply my observations from the recordings I've seen & heard within the Lucid, regardless of any comments a given reviewer has made. Only a test drive, that hopefully can be made on less than ideal roads, will put this to rest for me. I'm certainly not one who's searching for a reason to find the car a disappointment, but NHV is a very important aspect of the decision making process for me. Do I think this issue will be a deal-breaker for me? As I've said before, I think it's highly unlikely. This car has so many other great attributes, the NHV issue would have to be a real downer for me to look the other way.

Regarding Conner's comment on the Lucid being what is essentially an 'old man's car', what then is the EQS?? Certainly the styling of the Lucid is sleeker and far more modern than the seriously dated style of the EQS.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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For all my personal dislike of Musk, we have to remember what he did. He showed a disbelieving world that electric cars didn't have to wait for battery breakthroughs that were always just a few more years out, but that powerful and long-range electric cars could be built today with computer laptop batteries. He pulled this off by ignoring the conventional electrical engineering wisdom of the time that battery packs with so many cells could not be internally balanced.

Musk is not a great technologist, but he is perhaps our greatest living technology visionary who rethinks everything from payment methods to transportation to space travel to satellite internet. Just look at PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, StarLink. The fact that one still relatively young man has spawned all these businesses and become the world's richest man by a wide margin ($222B at last count) is truly extraordinary.

It's not just Tesla fanboys who stoke this phenomenon; the U.S. government has put a large chunk of its space program into the hands of Elon Musk.

Not since Steve Jobs has one man -- with an equally-flawed personality -- merged company and cult into a single definition.

I avoid updating my Apple device software as long as possible, as few updates fail to introduce bugs, nor have I ever found that any of my Apple devices communicate as seamlessly with each other as advertised. But just try to convince an Applehead that this is so, as cults thrive on shutting out facts. It's the same with Tesla, its cars, and its fanboys.
I guess for me Tesla vehicles have been on the market quite some time and for people to be getting brand new Plaid with quality control issues goes against the "great technologist" if you ask me, that's why I was asking about being cut so much slack. I think tech in Tesla is great, I just don't like the car.
 

hmp10

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I guess for me Tesla vehicles have been on the market quite some time and for people to be getting brand new Plaid with quality control issues goes against the "great technologist" if you ask me . . .
I think you misread my post. I said Musk is not a great technologist . . . and he's certainly misfired every time he's picked up the gun on manufacturing, such as when he so over-robotized the Model 3 production line that he had to bring in Peter Hochholdinger from Audi to clean up his mess.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I think you misread my post. I said Musk is not a great technologist . . . and he's certainly misfired every time he's picked up the gun on manufacturing, such as when he so over-robotized the Model 3 production line that he had to bring in Peter Hochholdinger from Audi to clean up his mess.
Whoops SORRY!
 

hmp10

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Did Conner intentionally doctor the mics & recording to make the EQS sound quieter? I seriously doubt that.
I think there's no question that the EQS will be a quieter car than the Lucid Air. However, I think that is the inevitable result of Lucid biasing the Air much more toward sport driving and handling dynamics and Mercedes biasing its car toward a cosseting ride.

The question is whether the Air is still quiet enough to satisfy a buyer whose top priority is NVH . . . and it may not be.

I don't find the noise in our Tesla Plaid to be a problem, and I'm positive the Air will be a significant step up from that in NVH. It will certainly be enough for us, but it might well not be enough for you.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Personally, I assess the noise levels not solely by the comments of one reviewer, but rather by the repeated recordings we've seen taken from inside a Lucid. Every one that I've seen has recorded apparent noise levels higher than what I'm accustomed to seeing on the many many BEV reviews I've seen over the past several years. Now yes, one can make an argument regarding the recording equipment used, the mic used, the placement of the mics, on & on. However with that said, it's always struck me as being odd that the Lucid stands out in almost all of these recordings, as having higher 'apparent' noise levels than some other BEV reviews/ride-alongs. Contrast this to Conner's review recorded within the EQS. The difference is notable. Did Conner intentionally doctor the mics & recording to make the EQS sound quieter? I seriously doubt that.

These are simply my observations from the recordings I've seen & heard within the Lucid, regardless of any comments a given reviewer has made. Only a test drive, that hopefully can be made on less than ideal roads, will put this to rest for me. I'm certainly not one who's searching for a reason to find the car a disappointment, but NHV is a very important aspect of the decision making process for me. Do I think this issue will be a deal-breaker for me? As I've said before, I think it's highly unlikely. This car has so many other great attributes, the NHV issue would have to be a real downer for me to look the other way.

Regarding Conner's comment on the Lucid being what is essentially an 'old man's car', what then is the EQS?? Certainly the styling of the Lucid is sleeker and far more modern than the seriously dated style of the EQS.
Lucken, I knew this is a concern for you. Hopefully, there will be quick analysis and it can be narrowed down to something that can easily be changed such as the tires. Sound insulation cannot weigh that much can it?
 

hmp10

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Sound insulation cannot weigh that much can it?
I just read a technical article on interior cabin noise. It said that tire noise is at the low end of the frequency spectrum that is difficult to address with sound insulation, as the thickness of the insulation must exceed the wavelength of the frequency sought to be damped.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I just read a technical article on interior cabin noise. It said that tire noise is at the low end of the frequency spectrum that is difficult to address with sound insulation, as the thickness of the insulation must exceed the wavelength of the frequency sought to be damped.
Most of the noise I'm hearing on the recordings like @Lucken has pointed out is higher frequency, I'd even characterize what I heard in one video as "wind noise."
 

hmp10

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Most of the noise I'm hearing on the recordings like @Lucken has pointed out is higher frequency, I'd even characterize what I heard in one video as "wind noise."
Yes, it was wind noise that Jonny Lieberman of "Motor Trend" and a couple of other reviewers have mentioned as the only noise they noted to any extent, and they felt it was well within luxury car norms.

However, Kyle Conner found the car generally quiet and never mentioned wind noise in any of his videos. He honed in specifically on tire noise in the rear seat.
 

Adnillien

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Regarding Conner's comment on the Lucid being what is essentially an 'old man's car', what then is the EQS?? Certainly the styling of the Lucid is sleeker and far more modern than the seriously dated style of the EQS.
This coming from Kyle who is buying the Taycan Cross Turismo. At least I think he said that was the Taycan he was buying. The Taycan is a great looking car. However, IMHO the Cross Turismo is rather ugly. Hence, I am not going to put to much weight on this comment. In Kyle's defense he does say that he is not a good judge of design. He also said something about needing to haul dogs around. Still between the Taycan and the Taycan Cross Turismo, there is no question which I would prefer.
 

Rob Stark

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Oct 12, 2021
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This coming from Kyle who is buying the Taycan Cross Turismo. At least I think he said that was the Taycan he was buying. The Taycan is a great looking car. However, IMHO the Cross Turismo is rather ugly. Hence, I am not going to put to much weight on this comment. In Kyle's defense he does say that he is not a good judge of design. He also said something about needing to haul dogs around. Still between the Taycan and the Taycan Cross Turismo, there is no question which I would prefer.

Kyle has an unconfirmed pre-order on the Taycan Cross Turismo. Which he said he may cancel in favor of the Rivian. Didn't mention pickup or SUV.

I guess Lucid could have benchmarked Rolls Royce for NVH, Bugatti for Performance and Tesla for Efficiency. And offered a vehicle for a fraction of the price of the former.

Tesla has a proven vehicle, with proven resale value, with a proven charging and service network that has been the arrowhead of the BEV revolution. That is why they get cut slack. Competitors have to offer a compelling reason not to get the default option and go with a new comer.

Peter Hochholdinger was at Tesla for 3 years and 3 months. Hochholdinger exited Tesla at about the same time Tesla exited production Hell. It is not clear to me whether he was responsible for entering the Hell, exiting the Hell, neither or both. Musk has said he is not a micro-manager but a nano-manager.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Kyle has an unconfirmed pre-order on the Taycan Cross Turismo. Which he said he may cancel in favor of the Rivian. Didn't mention pickup or SUV.

I guess Lucid could have benchmarked Rolls Royce for NVH, Bugatti for Performance and Tesla for Efficiency. And offered a vehicle for a fraction of the price of the former.
Absolutely! Now we're talking stock over $50 and going

Tesla has a proven vehicle, with proven resale value, with a proven charging and service network that has been the arrowhead of the BEV revolution. That is why they get cut slack. Competitors have to offer a compelling reason not to get the default option and go with a new comer.
I guess I still don't get this argument. Tesla has made changes to their vehicles and all models have had some sort of body change. Tesla is no longer a start up and it shouldn't have to take competition to make them align panels correctly. I'm on another forum and Tesla service isn't the best. As I told a friend who tried to get me to buy a Tesla, the charging network is not enough to make me buy a car I don't like.

Peter Hochholdinger was at Tesla for 3 years and 3 months. Hochholdinger exited Tesla at about the same time Tesla exited production Hell. It is not clear to me whether he was responsible for entering the Hell, exiting the Hell, neither or both. Musk has said he is not a micro-manager but a nano-manager.
Musk strikes me as person that one can easily butt heads with.
 

hmp10

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Peter Hochholdinger was at Tesla for 3 years and 3 months. Hochholdinger exited Tesla at about the same time Tesla exited production Hell. It is not clear to me whether he was responsible for entering the Hell, exiting the Hell, neither or both.
Musk tried to use the introduction of the Model 3 to take manufacturing robotics to a new level. Most of the early manufacturing delays and problems were reported to be related to the use of robots for processes for which they were not optimal. Hochholdinger was recruited to fix the mess, and he spent his early days at Tesla trying to make the level of robotics Musk envisioned work. He ended up tearing out a goodly percentage of the robots and brought Tesla into line with more proven manufacturing and assembly techniques.

From what has been observed about the high amount of human touch in Lucid's Casa Grande factory, Hochholdinger seems to ascribe to the Japanese approach to production. The Japanese feel that, when manufacturing processes are designed correctly (using Six-Sigma analysis), humans using those processes produce the highest quality. Consequently, the Japanese first get their quality right using human labor where feasible before they attempt to replace the humans with robots.

Hochholdinger ran Audi global manufacturing at a time when Audi won several quality awards, and Audi was known for its factories being more hands-on than others in the industry. He oversaw the construction of the facility that built the mid-engine Audi R8, a car engineered unlike anything else in the Audi lineup. I owned three R8's from late 2007 until 2015, and the only problem I had in those eight years was a failed suspension sensor on a right front wheel.

Kyle Conner and Tom Moloughney have both said they have known Hochholdinger for some time and view him as one of the best manufacturing guys in the business. Having Hochholdinger at Lucid is one of the reasons I'm comfortable taking such an early car from a startup manufacturer.
 

hmp10

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Here's another example of how idiosyncratic the response of different viewers to cabin noises can be. Remember a while back "The Drive" published a ride-along review of the Lucid Air on Manhattan streets and the West Side Highway and noted that it was so quiet it almost felt like a sound isolation booth?

Now "The Drive" has published a test drive review of the Mercedes EQS. The reviewer found the car had unexpected levels of wind noise: "Road noise is appreciably minimal but, despite that record-breaking 0.20 drag coefficient, wind noise is more apparent than expected mostly due to the fact that there's no internal combustion engine drowning it out." And then, in the wrap-up: "the wind noise makes it feel less than vault-like . . . ."

The final conclusion: "the EQS isn't really the sort of car I'd buy for myself but it's definitely a car I'd buy for my parents."

 

WildRide47

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Oct 22, 2020
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After I get my AGT, I'm considering ordering a BMW i-4M50 for my wife. Not overly happy with the grill, but she wants a car not much larger than her Audi S-4 and the quality control on the Tesla rules out the Model 3. Any thoughts(pros/cons)
 

Lucken

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Funny you mention the I4, that was my tentative fall back position if for some reason I turned thumbs down on the Lucid. Reviews have been quite good thus far, but its biggest issue, IMO, is its limited range. The M40 variant does get 300 miles, but even that’s marginal for me coming from the even more range-handicapped Audi e-Tron.
 

Neurio

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Sep 10, 2021
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All the reviews that came out this week have been positive. It's a compact sports sedan with a lot of power - the Car Wow review got 0-60 in 3.62 seconds (not Dream territory, but still impressive for under $70k). The fit and finish is classic BMW and a few reviewers said it's the best interior in its class (compared to Model 3 and Polestar 2). Other than the limited range and questionable aesthetics, it seems like a decent EV.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Sep 16, 2021
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I guess for us Lucid AGT is the only EV we can take delivery in California and visit Yosemite, Death Valley, Grand Canyon, Four Corners and Arches National Park. There just aren't many chargers in the desert.
 
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