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Road and Track review

Neurio

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Road and Track got the Dream P for a day while in Arizona last week. No comments about road noise, but they were impressed overall.

 

Alex

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I says:
So much for range anxiety and thumb-twiddling charging stops—at least when the 350-kW DC chargers required for such speedy refills become more common. We’re unable to test the claim, despite a 350-kW Electrify America charging oasis in Tempe, because our pre-production model’s quick-charge software isn’t fully operational. But buyers will enjoy three years of free charging at EA stations.

I hope they have the quick charge software up and running when I get my car. Seems that this would have been something they had nailed down long ago. If the software is not working, then I don't know how they can make their quick charging claims.
 

Lucken

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A generally favorable review that spent almost as much time knocking Tesla as it did praising Lucid. I wish he had elaborated on comments like, "Even on the largest wheels, with their fan-like aero blades, the ride remains livable". 'Livable' is a somewhat nebulous term that could be replaced with 'OK' 'fine' etc. And yes, nothing about NHV.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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The Lucid Air is constantly being compared to Tesla. I thought Lucid was going for this "post luxury" which was supposed to be competing against Mercedes primarily. Kyle Conner didn't even include the Air in his list of "luxury." At age 56 I'm looking for the luxury, ride and range with this EV not necessarily the break neck speed.
 

Rob Stark

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The Lucid Air is constantly being compared to Tesla. I thought Lucid was going for this "post luxury" which was supposed to be competing against Mercedes primarily. Kyle Conner didn't even include the Air in his list of "luxury." At age 56 I'm looking for the luxury, ride and range with this EV not necessarily the break neck speed.
Tesla is the 800 lbs Gorilla in the EV Space.

Every EV over $35k is going to be compared to a Tesla. Even some below that price.

Mercedes has AMG and Lexus has F Sport. Doesn't mean they aren't luxury marques.

Lucid can say we are competing against S Class, Lexus LS and BMW 7 Series.

Auto journalist will compare against Model S. And maybe Mercedes EQS.

In the luxury EV game range is the ultimate luxury feature.

The Air GT is a tad cheaper than a fully spec'd EQS and at ~516 miles of range has almost 200 miles more than the Mercedes. The Air Touring is $7k cheaper than a base EQS and has about 66 miles more range. And you never have to floor it.
 

hmp10

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Kyle Conner just posted a video comparing the Tesla Model S Plaid, the Lucid Air, the Mercedes EQS, and the Porsche Taycan, all of which he has driven in the past week.

He thinks each car holds the lead in one ownership factor or another. However, his wrap-up of the Lucid Air beginning at 35:20 was particularly interesting. He said it was "the perfect blend of the entire segment put into one car": handling approaching the Porsche Taycan, ride quality approaching the Mercedes EQS, power approaching the Tesla Plaid, and range beating them all.

 
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dawktah LucidGT

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I guess I need to ride in a Mercedes again. I always felt the ride was a firm autobahn smooth, not Cadillac or Lincoln smooth. One day maybe I'll ride in a Rolls Royce Dawn. Most reviewers need to buy a Zoom H2n. Shouldn't you be the full owner and not a reviewer of a deal/manufacturer car before doing the high speed launches for liability reasons?
 
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hmp10

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I have owned Mercedes and large Audis and have spent more time than I would like to remember being taken to airports in New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago in Cadillacs, Lincoln Town Cars, Mercedes S-Classes, and an occasional BMW 7 Series. Personally, I much prefer the German cars for ride characteristics on those roads. I'm not prone to car sickness, but the Town Cars came closer to inducing it than anything else I've experienced.
 

hmp10

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Slow day here, so I thought I'd do a quick visual on Kyle Conner's rankings of the four EVs he drove recently.

Each car took a No. 1 spot in something, but Lucid took three of the four No. 2 spots, giving it the best overall tally and supporting his contention that the Air is the best blend of the traits that are most desirable in the segment:

Screen Shot 2021-10-12 at 6.57.18 PM.png
 

St Bernard

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Good overall review but what about a few of Kyle’s comments: Not in any particular order
1. Road noise may be an issue esp compared to the EQS. He was not sold on what he was told.
2. He didn’t seem to love the Lucid overall design( he clearly likes the Taycan and said he was purchasing one). He said it’s a perfect car for a guy over 50 living in Florida. Another words he wouldn’t be seen driving one.
3. He has concerns about the potential time to charge. He said he did not have any info either way but it might be a concern.

I felt he clearly thought the EQS was just an amazing quality Car and inferred that Lucid will have to deliver. Not really unfair as there is no history with Lucid at this time. He clearly liked the Car but raved about the EQS( not the styling). I think he said it was unlike anything he had driven. I could be wrong on my last comment. I think part of the problem he had with Lucid was maybe not getting all the info he would have liked. ESP concerning charging time. He seemed to go out of his way to rave about the EQS minus the styling. Anyway very interesting review. I like how Kyly does his reviews.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I received a Mercedes as a loaner when my Cayenne was being serviced. The MB models that year were very plain and maybe I'm very sensitive to that type of ride.

I'm curious why an S-Class ICE vehicle was used as the benchmark for noise level? Seems to me benchmark should have been the most quiet vehicle period. It seems this wasn't forward looking since the EQS is much more quiet. Hindsight is 20/20.
 

Lucken

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Good overall review but what about a few of Kyle’s comments: Not in any particular order
1. Road noise may be an issue esp compared to the EQS. He was not sold on what he was told.
2. He didn’t seem to love the Lucid overall design( he clearly likes the Taycan and said he was purchasing one). He said it’s a perfect car for a guy over 50 living in Florida. Another words he wouldn’t be seen driving one.
3. He has concerns about the potential time to charge. He said he did not have any info either way but it might be a concern.

I felt he clearly thought the EQS was just an amazing quality Car and inferred that Lucid will have to deliver. Not really unfair as there is no history with Lucid at this time. He clearly liked the Car but raved about the EQS( not the styling). I think he said it was unlike anything he had driven. I could be wrong on my last comment. I think part of the problem he had with Lucid was maybe not getting all the info he would have liked. ESP concerning charging time. He seemed to go out of his way to rave about the EQS minus the styling. Anyway very interesting review. I like how Kyly does his reviews.
1. I remain somewhat concerned about this too as most of you know. The contrast between the noise in the interior recordings in the EQS and Lucid were, to me, quite obvious. I’ll just have to wait for a test drive. I’d be surprised if the NVH was so bad it actually resulted in me canceling. It’s obviously superior to a Tesla MS and although not the quietest car, my MS was livable.
2. I honestly don’t care what he or anyone else thinks about the design, it’s a highly subjective issue. I think it’s a good looking vehicle and that’s all that matters. ;)
3. I have no idea why this would be a concern. This will be one of the fastest charging BEVs ever. This is near the bottom of my list of concerns.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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1. I remain somewhat concerned about this too as most of you know. The contrast between the noise in the interior recordings in the EQS and Lucid were, to me, quite obvious. I’ll just have to wait for a test drive. I’d be surprised if the NVH was so bad it actually resulted in me canceling. It’s obviously superior to a Tesla MS and although not the quietest car, my MS was livable.
2. I honestly don’t care what he or anyone else thinks about the design, it’s a highly subjective issue. I think it’s a good looking vehicle and that’s all that matters. ;)
3. I have no idea why this would be a concern. This will be one of the fastest charging BEVs ever. This is near the bottom of my list of concerns.
At this point with the small disappointments I am still planning on taking delivery as well. Given how loud my current daily driver is, I'm sure my Lucid will sound like a tomb.

I anxiously wait for deliveries so we can see real world use. I just wonder when the first AGT will be delivered in relation to my place in line and our planned delivery trip in June.
 

Rob Stark

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I'm curious why an S-Class ICE vehicle was used as the benchmark for noise level? Seems to me benchmark should have been the most quiet vehicle period. It seems this wasn't forward looking since the EQS is much more quiet. Hindsight is 20/20.
Lucid is targeting MB.

The ICE S-Class was the best vehicle they had to purchase at the time Lucid was engineering the Air. They couldn't buy an in development EQS at the time.

I guess they could have benchmarked the Rolls-Royce Ghost. But kinda pointless since it is several price classes above it.
 

Rob Stark

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I agree. I just wonder what if anything can be done to change the narrative.

Nothing will change the narrative until Tesla has less than ~33% market share or is #2 in market share in a given segment. Then it will change the narrative for that segment.
 

hmp10

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Conner's comments about the Lucid noise level should be kept in context. His only issue was with rear tire noise in the backseat. In an "InsideEVs" podcast two days after that test ride in Casa Grande, Conner opened his comments on the matter by saying the Lucid was very quiet. Then, as he began to hone in on the tire noise issue, Tom Moloughney, who was also on that drive and spent some time in the backseat, said he did not find it nearly as noticeable as Conner. I almost got the impression that Moloughney would not have had anything to say about tire noise in the rear seat except that he wanted to back his friend up a bit on the podcast. This may be nothing more than an idiosyncratic response by one person who has a particular sensitivity to a certain frequency range.

Rob Stark is right. No EQS was available to Lucid at the time they were sound engineering the cabin, and the Mercedes S-Class ICE has been recognized for some time as the NVH standard below the ultra-luxury class of Rolls and Bentley. If you've ever walked along a road with traffic, you know just how loud tire roar is. In the backseat of a car, you're sitting just a few away from the source of that noise, which is transmitted both through air and through the car's structure. On top of that, in an EV the masking noise of the combustion engine and its vibrations are eliminated. It's unrealistic to expect dead silence from tires. It was clear from Conner's comments on the podcast that Lucid had put microphones in the rear seat of the Lucid during development as well as in the rear seat of a Mercedes S Class and that their measurements showed rear seat noise was well controlled relative to the Mercedes. To the extent that other reviewers have commented on noise in the passenger cabin, it has been about wind noise, not tire noise. Conner is simply an outlier on this issue.

The amount of discussion in the numerous times we've returned to this issue based on (1) one person's comments about tire noise during a (2) brief drive on a desert road with (3) a surface described by others as rough while (4) seated in a position few owners will occupy often is a bit surprising. It seems almost as if people are searching for a reason to find the car disappointing before they've even given it a chance.
 

hmp10

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He [Conner] said it’s a perfect car [the Air] for a guy over 50 living in Florida. Another words he wouldn’t be seen driving one.
That was interesting. When I watched Conner's EQS review a day or two ago, I was surprised by how much he effused about the luxury and serenity of the EQS. He has never struck me as a luxo-barge kind of guy. The wheelbase of the EQS is about 10" longer than a Model S and an Air, and the car is almost 4" taller than the Air (yet its rear seat has been described as no more roomy or comfortable than an Air's with the larger battery pack).

Contrast that with the "Transport Evolved" review of the Air, where both test drivers said the EQS was for someone looking for a sofa-like ride that lulled rather than inspired a driver, and the Air was much more for the driving enthusiast who wanted luxury but would trade away the final flourishes of cushy excess for prodigious power and much-advanced handling prowess.

I live in Florida, and the EQS looks to me a lot more the car for the well-heeled "white crests" down here than the Lucid.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Conner's comments about the Lucid noise level should be kept in context. His only issue was with rear tire noise in the backseat. In an "InsideEVs" podcast two days after that test ride in Casa Grande, Conner opened his comments on the matter by saying the Lucid was very quiet. Then, as he began to hone in on the tire noise issue, Tom Moloughney, who was also on that drive and spent some time in the backseat, said he did not find it nearly as noticeable as Conner. I almost got the impression that Moloughney would not have had anything to say about tire noise in the rear seat except that he wanted to back his friend up a bit on the podcast. This may be nothing more than an idiosyncratic response by one person who has a particular sensitivity to a certain frequency range.

Rob Stark is right. No EQS was available to Lucid at the time they were sound engineering the cabin, and the Mercedes S-Class ICE has been recognized for some time as the NVH standard below the ultra-luxury class of Rolls and Bentley. If you've ever walked along a road with traffic, you know just how loud tire roar is. In the backseat of a car, you're sitting just a few away from the source of that noise, which is transmitted both through air and through the car's structure. On top of that, in an EV the masking noise of the combustion engine and its vibrations are eliminated. It's unrealistic to expect dead silence from tires. It was clear from Conner's comments on the podcast that Lucid had put microphones in the rear seat of the Lucid during development as well as in the rear seat of a Mercedes S Class and that their measurements showed rear seat noise was well controlled relative to the Mercedes. To the extent that other reviewers have commented on noise in the passenger cabin, it has been about wind noise, not tire noise. Conner is simply an outlier on this issue.

The amount of discussion in the numerous times we've returned to this issue based on (1) one person's comments about tire noise during a (2) brief drive on a desert road with (3) a surface described by others as rough while (4) seated in a position few owners will occupy often is a bit surprising. It seems almost as if people are searching for a reason to find the car disappointing before they've even given it a chance.
In my reply I personally don't think I'll have any issue with the sound level. My statement about "forward looking" meant instead of using an existing car as the benchmark, use this car to create a significantly lower benchmark. A MB EV was going to be much more quiet than the ICE. I think from a marketing standpoint quieter than the Ghost would have gone over very well.

Until we have cars we are all just discussing. I was on the Cayenne forum over a year before it's release, this forum is no different. These disappointments pale in comparison to Tesla, why does Tesla get cut so much slack?
 

hmp10

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. . . why does Tesla get cut so much slack?
For all my personal dislike of Musk, we have to remember what he did. He showed a disbelieving world that electric cars didn't have to wait for battery breakthroughs that were always just a few more years out, but that powerful and long-range electric cars could be built today with computer laptop batteries. He pulled this off by ignoring the conventional electrical engineering wisdom of the time that battery packs with so many cells could not be internally balanced.

Musk is not a great technologist, but he is perhaps our greatest living technology visionary who rethinks everything from payment methods to transportation to space travel to satellite internet. Just look at PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, StarLink. The fact that one still relatively young man has spawned all these businesses and become the world's richest man by a wide margin ($222B at last count) is truly extraordinary.

It's not just Tesla fanboys who stoke this phenomenon; the U.S. government has put a large chunk of its space program into the hands of Elon Musk.

Not since Steve Jobs has one man -- with an equally-flawed personality -- merged company and cult into a single definition.

I avoid updating my Apple device software as long as possible, as few updates fail to introduce bugs, nor have I ever found that any of my Apple devices communicate as seamlessly with each other as advertised. But just try to convince an Applehead that this is so, as cults thrive on shutting out facts. It's the same with Tesla, its cars, and its fanboys.
 
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