No more Model S/X production

I'd love a baby Air. When I bought my Air Touring I didn't realize that it was such a large car. I don;'t need all that space. We rarely have guests in the backseat. I'll soon be trading my Air for a baby Mercedes EV. If Lucid only offered a luxurious, fully-equipped model the size of a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry that would be my choice.
As far as moving up or down in a brand, that's never appealed to me. I've never owned a GM or Ford car. And buying the small Mercedes won't inspired me to move up to the E or S class.
 
Can you cite a compact sedan or crossover that's high on the premium/luxury side of things?
And if so, how well is it selling?
For 2025:
- The Lexus RX sold 113,256 units in the US
- Mercedes GLC sold 64,200 units
- For compact sedans, the BMW 3 series sold 33,030 units
 
I'd love a baby Air. When I bought my Air Touring I didn't realize that it was such a large car. I don;'t need all that space. We rarely have guests in the backseat. I'll soon be trading my Air for a baby Mercedes EV. If Lucid only offered a luxurious, fully-equipped model the size of a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry that would be my choice.
As far as moving up or down in a brand, that's never appealed to me. I've never owned a GM or Ford car. And buying the small Mercedes won't inspired me to move up to the E or S class.
Did you know that the Lucid Air is less than 1 inch longer than Honda Accord (175.9 inches vs 175.0), 3 inches wider than Honda Accord (76.3 inches vs 73.3), and 2 inches shorter in height than the Honda Accord (55.5 inches vs 57.1)? That's one of the cool things about the Air. It FEELS like it's a bigger car because of the efficiency of packaging of the passenger and cargo areas, but it physically covers about the same footprint as a Honda Accord.
 
For 2025:
- The Lexus RX sold 113,256 units in the US
- Mercedes GLC sold 64,200 units
- For compact sedans, the BMW 3 series sold 33,030 units
I thought we were talking high end.

The 3-series in not nearly as nice as the 5, 7, or 8 series.
The GLC isn’t as nice as the GLS.

Bigger gets you nicer, in terms of luxury and performance. It sucks, I agree
 
Did you know that the Lucid Air is less than 1 inch longer than Honda Accord (175.9 inches vs 175.0), 3 inches wider than Honda Accord (76.3 inches vs 73.3), and 2 inches shorter in height than the Honda Accord (55.5 inches vs 57.1)? That's one of the cool things about the Air. It FEELS like it's a bigger car because of the efficiency of packaging of the passenger and cargo areas, but it physically covers about the same footprint as a Honda Accord.
It’s amazing actually.
 
Cadillac introduced the Lyric first, then Vistiq, then the Escalade EV. Get people into the brand, then convince them to trade up for the latest and greatest. That was the entire rationale behind GM in the first place. The S Class exists to intro all the latest and greatest tech that trickles down, but MB would love for you to buy a C class, then upgrade to an E, then finally into an S - making a lifetime customer with multiple purchases.

Lucid doesn’t have that option and the way they have rolled out so far has limited their market right from the start. How many people do you know who bought the top line trim of anything and then downgraded later? If the reason they aren’t ready to sell more is because they can’t support it with service…..oof.
You are assuming any company gets a set of customers once. And then just keeps selling to the same people?

It’s way easier to establish yourself as a high-end brand, then make more price sensitive customers happy they can afford to get “such a nice car” when you introduce a cheaper model than it is to introduce a Yugo, then try to convince rich people to buy your expensive version.

There’s a reason GM has to brand Chevy and Cadillac as two different companies. Why Honda, Toyota, Nissan had to create completely different brands to scale up to more profitable customers.

Remember the VW Phaeton? Didn’t sell very well. Why? Because no one wants an expensive VW. Same reason the new EV bus has tanked.

Low end customers are the hardest to convince to take a chance on a new company. And they have way more options. And the worst part is if you do manage to convince enough people to buy your cheap car, you’ve got a whole new problem, because you’ve essentially guaranteed pissing off the majority of those customers when you can’t keep up with their service needs.

Starting low end as a new EV company is suicide in today’s market.

You are acting as if Lucid didn’t intend to limit their market at first. They absolutely did. Just as they will slowly ramp up their market with each subsequent model. This has been the road map from day one.

Can you imagine how much worse off Lucid would be if they had actually sold 25,000 Air in their first year? With all the issues of software 1.0? They never would have recovered.

As I like to say, the majority of Lucid’s customer base hasn’t yet heard of Lucid. And that’s a good thing. Let them iron out the kinks with us crazy early adopters.

If they end up about the size of, say, Porsche in terms of long term customer base, that’ll be just fine. Ain’t nothing wrong with Porsche.

Likely they’d rather be the size of an Audi. But either way, there are plenty of examples of successful car companies that don’t sell millions of units. Especially when your starting price is nice and high.
 
I thought we were talking high end.

The 3-series in not nearly as nice as the 5, 7, or 8 series.
The GLC isn’t as nice as the GLS.

Bigger gets you nicer, in terms of luxury and performance. It sucks, I agree
You asked for luxury compact sedans and crosssovers, I delivered.
You can say all you want about "bigger is better", that will quickly go away once you're pulling your hair navigating through bumper-to-bumper gridlock in the middle of downtown cores and parking lots.

I've driven my share of BMW's products. From the 1-series, to the 3-series, all the way to 7-series extended wheelbases and Rolls Royce Phantoms. I've even driven G-Wagons and Aston Martins. I'd rather take a 3 series with how easy it is to zip in and out of spaces and parking without losing my sanity.

And it's exactly why I'm looking forward to midsize. Midsize-levels of space on a compact-size exterior? Sign me up.

Buyers want to convince themselves that buying a Suburban-sized truck is needed for all the "space", but the bulk of that space is wasted on holding up the physical structure needed to get to that size. You'll reach a compromised interior with blind spots and crash areas big enough to kill someone, and the industry becomes an arms race on who can make the bigger tank on wheels.
 
If they end up about the size of, say, Porsche in terms of long term customer base, that’ll be just fine. Ain’t nothing wrong with Porsche.

Likely they’d rather be the size of an Audi. But either way, there are plenty of examples of successful car companies that don’t sell millions of units. Especially when your starting price is nice and high.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point, however we need to remember that VW can spread development costs of Porsche and Audi across a whole bunch of vehicle brands that use virtually identical platforms and engine series. More aluminum components, less - which really are shared across milliions of vehicles.

Key shared platforms​

  • MLB / MLB Evo (longitudinal ICE): Used for many mid‑ to large‑size vehicles across Audi (A4–A8, Q5–Q8), Porsche (Macan, Cayenne), and VW (Touareg), plus Bentley and Lamborghini.
  • MQB (transverse ICE): Shared mainly between VW and Audi for compact and midsize transverse cars like Golf and A3, and also with Skoda/SEAT.
  • MEB (mass‑market EV): VW Group’s volume EV platform (e.g., VW ID.3/ID.4) used across mainstream brands; Audi uses it for smaller EVs.
  • J1 (performance EV): Dedicated performance EV platform for Porsche Taycan and Audi e‑tron GT.
  • PPE – Premium Platform Electric (new Audi/Porsche EV): Co‑developed by Audi and Porsche for mid‑ and large‑size premium EVs (e.g., Macan EV, Audi Q6 e‑tron, A6 e‑tron family), and positioned above MEB.
 
You asked for luxury compact sedans and crosssovers, I delivered.
I guess luxury is in the mind of the purchaser. I don't consider the 3 series to be luxury, but if you do you'll probably be happy with the Earth. Just don't go comparing to an Air.

It's like Model Y and the now defunct Model X. Model X had air suspension, Model Y still doesn't. Model X had better seats with more adjustability than Model Y.

Same is true for 3-series. It's a fine car - I've owned a few. But, when I upgraded to the 5-series, that was a big difference in terms of interior materials, seat comfort, cabin quietness, etc.
 
I'd love a baby Air. When I bought my Air Touring I didn't realize that it was such a large car. I don;'t need all that space. We rarely have guests in the backseat. I'll soon be trading my Air for a baby Mercedes EV. If Lucid only offered a luxurious, fully-equipped model the size of a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry that would be my choice.
As far as moving up or down in a brand, that's never appealed to me. I've never owned a GM or Ford car. And buying the small Mercedes won't inspired me to move up to the E or S class.
The new Camry and Accord are technically the size of the Air's exterior now:) Most companies can't sell smaller sedans as they can't compete in daily activities with the practicality of a Crossover. There definitely is demand for cheaper cars that have fully luxury cabin comforts...
 
Until robotaxi is cheaper and better than uber, why would someone choose it other than novelty. They won’t.
It is genuinely a much better experience. I always pick Waymo over Uber/Lyft now if it goes where I want to go and isn't much more expensive. The costs will come down with scale, but the experience is significantly superior. There is no driver to bother you, you can be on the phone or do work or whatever you'd like, play whatever music you want, etc. It's honestly better.
 
Until robotaxi is cheaper and better than uber, why would someone choose it other than novelty. They won’t.

I'll give you a good reason

In 2024 Uber disclosed that there was an average of sexual assault or sexual misconduct reports EVERY 8 MINUTES with their drivers
so yes my wife would certainly pick Waymo over a typical Uber
 
Given we have no idea what the car looks like, it very well may not. It’s possible they integrate components elsewhere. The reason you see the “halo” on gravity and in waymo is explicitly because they are retrofitting hardware to the vehicle. That isn't the case with Earth.
I believe that Waymo has said that they specifically want high mounted sensors for better visibility, so it's not just about retrofitting existing vehicles. But in my book, that's an excellent reason.
 

an interesting oped (and where I learned of the Uber sexual assault problem)

watch the whole thing before you think it's a hit piece in general as it's mostly about the deceptive marketing and lack of transparency
 
I'll give you a good reason

In 2024 Uber disclosed that there was an average of sexual assault or sexual misconduct reports EVERY 8 MINUTES with their drivers
so yes my wife would certainly pick Waymo over a typical Uber
This is true. My wife way prefers Waymo to Uber/Lyft, and this is one of the reasons.

Sometimes we tend to forget how many people grow up with real trauma, and that only some of them ever get help for it. My wife is at least aware of her hypervigilance and tries to account for it; plenty of people aren’t even aware they’re doing it, but would still default to a Waymo over a driven cab.

Even, hypothetically, if it crashed at a slightly higher rate, that might still cause less anxiety than getting in a car with a stranger.

There’s a reason Uber and Lyft had to develop real 24 hour safety hotlines. I don’t suspect Waymo will get quite the same calls.
 
I've been a Model S owner since mid-2016 and just joined this forum. My mid 2016 MS 90D was my first EV which I purchased before the supercharger network was still in it's infancy and no actual service/delivery center in my state. I viewed it as somewhat as a leap of faith or social experiement to see if an EV could really work for me, including long range travel. What I found is I quickly adopted to stopping every couple hours for charging stops, even early Tesla MobilEye AP1 system was great for cross-country travel, and now find my auto buying criteria to have pivoted to EVs with a very capable ADAS system. Totally different buying considerations from 10 years ago!

I think the dramatic drop in sales for the S/X are more the Model 3/Y cannibalizing a good portion of those sales than lack of a total platform redesign. Given that large volume shift, I understand considering where to focus efforts in the current weak US EV market with any upgrade to the S/X really only viable with a total product redesign from the battery pack up. That's a big investment, and whether you agree or not with focus on Robotaxi/Optimus, it's clear that's the focus versus large car/SUV segment.

I've driven both Model 3/Y vehicles at times as service loaners, but neither are good replacements to the Model S for me. Not due to level of upgrade, etc., but due to differences in range, size, and the utility of the MS hatchback design. As much as I'm tempted to quick go out and buy one last S, that wouldn't get me anything over my current December 2023 build MS LR with 50k miles. So hopefully I'm likely not seriously looking for a replacement for another 4-5 years, but starting to think what I might do if the worst case scenario of someone running into me, etc., would cause my current MS to get retired.

That's where I've decided to join the Lucid forum to start understanding the product better. Not sure what I see of the Air really excites me, largely due to the trunk setup not providing the functionality of the S hatchback. Gravity clearly covers the need for periodic transporting larger cargo (sold off the last family minivan 2.5 years ago), but don't need something that large. That's where seeing both in the flesh is important but unfortunately nearest sales gallery is about 5 hours away in Chicago. So my research will need to stay internet based probably for a few months.

So if you see me asking questions from time to time, it's all part of evaluating what the potential might be for a future Model S replacement.
 
When my daughters were both in college in Austin they used Uber a lot but they knew they weren’t allowed to go in one alone, and they had to text me the driver info immediately even if it was at 2:00 am. Now I have one daughter in Austin and one in San Fran, and they both love Waymo for the same reasons you guys have stated. As a dad I definitely feel more comfortable with Waymo, even if it costs a bit more.

In San Fran at least, Waymos are almost instantaneously available and I really like using them.
 
Not sure what I see of the Air really excites me, largely due to the trunk setup not providing the functionality of the S hatchback
Welcome!

The Air actually has more cargo space, and a much, much bigger frunk. The trunk works great, just requires a little Tetris-ing. The benefits of the trunk over the hatchback are very obvious in ride quality, imho. It was a very intentional change from the Model S, for rigidity.
 
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