Mobile charging when on vacation

[borski]

. 240v-30-50 amp circuits are not DIY for the uninitiated. They can kill you in an instant. And burn the house down. Doing a bunch of 120v LED dimmers does not give you these skills for working with 6 and 8 guage wire. I just don't want anyone here to get overconfident from our commentary.

Genuine question: I thought one of the benefits of 240v was that it was safer from a "won't kill you" perspective. Am I wrong?

 

[Alex]

Genuine question: I thought one of the benefits of 240v was that it was safer from a "won't kill you" perspective. Am I wrong?

Voltage does not kill - but current (amperage does). Also, DC is more dangerous than AC. So there is not anything inherently more dangerous than 240V (AC), other than typically those circuits have a higher amperage. But the current would have to go through your heart to be lethal. If you only touch a 240VAC circuit and there is no path through your heart, you may get a shock similar to 120VAC or possibly a burn on your fingers, depending on if they are wet and more conducting. You've probably seen high voltage/high frequency (10,000V+) Tesla Coils that you can touch - of course they also operate at a very low current.

I asked Bard to comment on this:

You are correct. Voltage is not the only factor that determines whether an electrical shock is dangerous. The current that flows through the body is also important. In general, the higher the voltage, the higher the current that can flow through the body. However, the resistance of the body also plays a role. If the skin is wet or broken, the resistance of the body is lower and more current can flow.
DC is more dangerous than AC because it can cause a muscle contraction that can lock the victim onto the live wire. AC, on the other hand, causes the muscles to alternately contract and relax, which can help to break the contact with the live wire.
So, while 240V is not inherently more dangerous than 120V, it is more likely to cause a dangerous shock because it can deliver more current. However, if the current does not flow through the heart, the shock may not be fatal.
The Tesla coils that you mentioned are a good example of this. They operate at very high voltages, but the current is very low. This means that they can produce a powerful spark, but they are not very dangerous to touch.
It is important to remember that electricity is dangerous and should be treated with respect. If you are not sure whether a circuit is live, it is best to assume that it is and avoid touching it.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Genuine question: I thought one of the benefits of 240v was that it was safer from a "won't kill you" perspective. Am I wrong?

Totally. You never look at voltage alone. Sparky's like to say it's the amps that kill you. We use watts as the unit of electric power. That is why everything about our BEVs and charging is kilowatts. One amp of electricity under the pressure of 1 volt yields one watt of of "electrical power".

In NA, 240v circuits tend to be 30 amps on up. 120v are 15 or 20 amps. A 120v/15a circuit has one fourth the electrical power of a 240v/30a circuit. With 240, since you are doubling voltage, you can decrease amperage by half to get the same power. And it's amperage that determines wire guage. A 240v 50 amp circuit is basically equivalent to a 120v 100 amp circuit that would require massive guage 1 or 2 wire.

The benefit of 240v is the reduction in amps to get the same power, giving a reduction in wire guage, and reduction in line losses. This is far too technical, but 240v in NA is also balanced- 120 plus 120 equals 240. No benefit for BEV charging but great benefit for sensitive electronic equipment and thevpower regerators I helped design.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Voltage does not kill - but current (amperage does). Also, DC is more dangerous than AC. So there is not anything inherently more dangerous than 240V (AC), other than typically those circuits have a higher amperage. But the current would have to go through your heart to be lethal. If you only touch a 240VAC circuit and there is no path through your heart, you may get a shock similar to 120VAC or possibly a burn on your fingers, depending on if they are wet and more conducting. You've probably seen high voltage/high frequency (10,000V+) Tesla Coils that you can touch - of course they also operate at a very low current.

I asked Bard to comment on this:

You are correct. Voltage is not the only factor that determines whether an electrical shock is dangerous. The current that flows through the body is also important. In general, the higher the voltage, the higher the current that can flow through the body. However, the resistance of the body also plays a role. If the skin is wet or broken, the resistance of the body is lower and more current can flow.
DC is more dangerous than AC because it can cause a muscle contraction that can lock the victim onto the live wire. AC, on the other hand, causes the muscles to alternately contract and relax, which can help to break the contact with the live wire.
So, while 240V is not inherently more dangerous than 120V, it is more likely to cause a dangerous shock because it can deliver more current. However, if the current does not flow through the heart, the shock may not be fatal.
The Tesla coils that you mentioned are a good example of this. They operate at very high voltages, but the current is very low. This means that they can produce a powerful spark, but they are not very dangerous to touch.
It is important to remember that electricity is dangerous and should be treated with respect. If you are not sure whether a circuit is live, it is best to assume that it is and avoid touching it.

Sorry @Alex , I did not see your excellent reply. My fault. Great answers. I could have had another IPA.

To be honest, I choose not to discuss pathways through the heart, body resistance and such, so as not to encourage DIY tinkering.

I still work on live panels with rubber gloves, rubber shoes, standing on a rubber pad, often with one hand in my pocket.

 

[DeaneG]

Even 120vac is enough to cause involuntary complete contraction of hand muscles. You may not be able to let go of the circuit. If the current path happens to go through your heart on its way to your other hand or to your foot, within a second or two a 60Hz current peak will line up the wrong way with your heartbeat, causing arrest or fibrillation.

 

[Worldwide Beagle]

Even 120vac is enough to cause involuntary complete contraction of hand muscles. You may not be able to let go of the circuit. If the current path happens to go through your heart on its way to your other hand or to your foot, within a second or two a 60Hz current peak will line up the wrong way with your heartbeat, causing arrest or fibrillation.

Gee @DeaneG and @Alex , all this talk about electrocution IS EVEN MORE DEPRESSING than all the incessant whinging in the forum about the slow as molasses EA or WHERE in the hell is my damn OTA update or my fob/phone is Much better than yours.

 

[Haggy]

. 240v-30-50 amp circuits are not DIY for the uninitiated. They can kill you in an instant. And burn the house down. Doing a bunch of 120v LED dimmers does not give you these skills for working with 6 and 8 guage wire. I just don't want anyone here to get overconfident from our commentary.

I agree. The wires are much harder to deal with than gauge 12, which is about as heavy as do it yourselfers might get. And attaching the wire to the outlet requires a lot more force than people might think. You also need to know what the Code calls for, and you probably need a city inspection. Interestingly enough, no inspection is needed for just changing the outlet, and probably none for replacing the circuit breaker, so it's just the wiring in between, which isn't likely to be a problem if it's the right gauge, the right kind of conduit, etc. I don't think that it's likely that people will need to change the outlet, especially if they leave something plugged into it and rarely to never unplug it, except for very infrequent road trips. But if they do, even that might be better left to an electrician.

 

[OldAg]

As an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years of experience dealing with power before retirement. I believe the NEC says anything over 50 volts is considered dangerous and cannot be worked on while energized. So that means all voltages in a home are dangerous. I do work on my electric service in my home, but only when de energized and with the proper tools. All others should use a licensed electrician regardless of how simple it looks.

 

[Bill55]

Our vacation home only has a 30A dryer connection (in garage). When we used to take our Tesla there, we could just use the onboard screen to reduce the charge rate limit to 24A. We’re about to take our lucid there next month.

I can’t figure out how to change the default amperage consumption on the lucid. It probably doesn’t exist.

I would be using an adapter from dryer plug to nema14-50 for the lucid mobile connector. How do you tell lucid to limit the charge to 24A instead of the usual 40A?

Thanks!

I have not tested or used this product, but the advertised specifications would solve your problem.

ShockFlo® G1 32A/40A Portable J1772 Level 2 EV Charger

ShockFlo® G1 32A/40A Portable J1772 Level 2 EV Charger

www.shockflo.com

 

[SBR]

Quick update. The cheapest option for me ended up being paying a local dude $250 to pull a NEMA 14-50 next to the breaker in garage. It took him 20 mins including drinking coffee with me.

No funky extended cords, converters, new chargers, etc. and it’s future proof. A lot of people in the neighborhood has RV parking so he just assumed it was for an RV. Luckily, price was agreed before hand. Win win

Lucid needs to update software to control the charge rate. To me that’s the correct solution. Tesla had it right

 

[DeaneG]

....Lucid needs to update software to control the charge rate. To me that’s the correct solution.

Nearly every other EV allows setting of maximum L2 charging current. Lucid will get there.