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Mileage on first road trip

Dortreo

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Not a skill I am interested in. I want to know what to expect from normal driving in a car that is fun to drive.

The EPA test procedure sounds like the very definition of hypermiling: “This procedure uses the same EPA city cycle (20-mph average speed over 7.5 miles with 18 stops) and highway cycle (48-mph average speed, 10.3 miles) used for fuel-economy tests of all light-duty vehicles. Both cycles feature extremely gentle driving; the most aggressive acceleration would be equivalent to an 18-second 60-mph time. Between city and highway loops, the test calls for a steady speed of 55 or 65 mph to deplete the battery.” However, the range results are further reduced by a default 30% to arrive at the EPA rated range.

Because some manufacturers (e.g., Tesla) find a way to reduce the adjustment factor resulting in higher ranges and some manufacturers (e.g., Porsche) voluntarily implement a higher adjustment factor to provide a more realistic figure to their customers, the EPA test represents an imperfect yardstick for comparisons across cars. And it doesn’t reflect normal driving.

So, sigh, perhaps the EPA range does overestimate the Lucid Air’s real world range by 20%. Knowing my lead foot, I think I better build in a reduction of 30%.
 

Lucken

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I’ve always found it interesting how some brands significantly overperform and others underperform their EPA ratings. What appears to be vast differences in EPA range between EVs, when you factor in real world results, are sometimes not nearly as great as first thought.

I was disappointed in the disparity between my MS’s advertised range vs my real world results. Then when I factored in phantom drain, the range disparity took an even bigger hit. I simply thought phantom drain was a fact of life with EVs, until I drove my next two EVs that had nearly none.
 
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dawktah LucidGT

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I have a small sample size of data to add to the mix. After charging today, I was able to achieve 4.2 mi/kwh over the distance of around 10 miles. It required me to do EXTREMELY conservative driving but I was on surface streets the whole time. I got tired of driving so slow so drove normal again. I'm pretty close to averaging around 3.2 mi/kwh with my split of 50/50 city/highway driving.

@hydbob This is very helpful. Thanks for keeping us abreast. Do you use cruise control and does that change anything?
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I’ve always found it interesting how some brands significantly overperform and other underperform their EPA ratings. What appear to be vast differences in EPA range between EVs, when you factor in real world results, are sometimes not nearly as great as first thought.

I was disappointed in the disparity between my MS’s advertised range vs my real world results. Then when I factored in phantom drain, the range disparity took an even bigger hit. I simply thought phantom drain was a fact of life with EVs, until I drove my next two EVs that had nearly none.

I am not surprised at this. Keep in mind the NHTSA crash test says this: "To simulate a head-on collision between two vehicles of a similar weight, a vehicle is crashed into a fixed barrier at 35 mph." What's wrong with that???
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I respectfully disagree. Bluetooth as a protocol is always on and searching where as RF is initiated on a as needed basis thus battery life runs from 6 months to 1 year..

I agree I have RF devices throughout my home including remotes.
 

hmp10

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Tom Mologhney will do a 70 mph range test, unless they do a Le Mans style driver swap, that is going to be brutal.

They probably test at 70 mph because you wouldn't want to post a video premised on breaking the speed limit. However, the average speed on U.S. interstates is 78 mph, and power consumption rises non-linearly with speed. So, if you prefer to drive with the flow of traffic (which accident data show to be the safest speed, regardless of posted speed limit) or a tad faster, you're going to do considerably worse than a 70-mph range test will predict.

This is why we have tested both our Teslas ourselves with the cruise controls set to 80 mph. As both Teslas consistently read 2-3 mph faster than the GPS speed indicators in our radar detectors, we thus are setting the true speed at 78 mph. (This is another Tesla trick to make range seem greater. Our Honda speedometer conforms exactly to the GPS speed indicator in our radar detector.)

We do these tests on Alligator Alley, a flat, straight, lightly traveled stretch of I-75 through the Florida Everglades, in dry weather in temperatures between 80-90 degrees, and we use highway mile markers to gauge distance.

Our 2015 Model S P90D consumed about 10 miles of indicated range reduction for every 6 miles of actual road travel. The 2021 Plaid is considerably better at about 7 miles of actual road travel for every 10 miles of indicated range reduction. (Of course, what this is also testing is the accuracy of the cars' displays of remaining range.)

One of the things I'm worried about is the fact that Lucid uses no buffers in the 118-kWh battery pack, whereas almost every other EV manufacturer does. Unless they are using some secret cell chemistry that protects from deterioration at extreme high and low states of charge, it means they are sacrificing pack longevity to get maximal EPA range ratings. As an owner, I will plan every trip based on charging up to 90% and not letting the pack drop below 20% (just to leave margin for unexpected delays, inclement weather, or extreme topography en route).

All of this -- together with my preferred highway speed of around 80 mph -- means I will be assuming ~250 miles of real-world range in the Lucid Dream P on 21" wheels on a long road trip. However, that's still over 3 hours or driving, and more than I would want to do without a break.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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I am anxiously waiting for real world numbers. We are planning on crossing through Death Valley, Grand Canyon and up to Moab in June. Right now the longest leg is 371 miles. There isn't any charging along this leg to get a quick charge while rest/eating. Kayenta, AZ
 

hydbob

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Well, of you can wait 3 weeks I will be going from Los Angeles to Gilbert and trying to do it in 1 charge
 

hmp10

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I am anxiously waiting for real world numbers. We are planning on crossing through Death Valley, Grand Canyon and up to Moab in June. Right now the longest leg is 371 miles. There isn't any charging along this leg to get a quick charge while rest/eating. Kayenta, AZ

Given the heat the battery pack will be dealing with on that trip, I think you're gong to have to learn some extreme hyper-miling techniques.

Are you sure there are no CCS chargers along the route, or just no Electrify America chargers?

As much as I love EVs and wouldn't be without one, the current state of roadway charging infrastructure is still such that not every possible road trip in the continental U.S. is yet practical in an EV.

When fully built out, Electrify America has said there will be no more than 170 miles between any two EA charging stations in any direction anywhere in the Lower 48. But they're not there yet and won't be for another few years.
 

hydbob

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Screenshot_20211130-073651_Lucid.jpg
 

Sandvinsd

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They probably test at 70 mph because you wouldn't want to post a video premised on breaking the speed limit. However, the average speed on U.S. interstates is 78 mph, and power consumption rises non-linearly with speed. So, if you prefer to drive with the flow of traffic (which accident data show to be the safest speed, regardless of posted speed limit) or a tad faster, you're going to do considerably worse than a 70-mph range test will predict.

This is why we have tested both our Teslas ourselves with the cruise controls set to 80 mph. As both Teslas consistently read 2-3 mph faster than the GPS speed indicators in our radar detectors, we thus are setting the true speed at 78 mph. (This is another Tesla trick to make range seem greater. Our Honda speedometer conforms exactly to the GPS speed indicator in our radar detector.)

We do these tests on Alligator Alley, a flat, straight, lightly traveled stretch of I-75 through the Florida Everglades, in dry weather in temperatures between 80-90 degrees, and we use highway mile markers to gauge distance.

Our 2015 Model S P90D consumed about 10 miles of indicated range reduction for every 6 miles of actual road travel. The 2021 Plaid is considerably better at about 7 miles of actual road travel for every 10 miles of indicated range reduction. (Of course, what this is also testing is the accuracy of the cars' displays of remaining range.)

One of the things I'm worried about is the fact that Lucid uses no buffers in the 118-kWh battery pack, whereas almost every other EV manufacturer does. Unless they are using some secret cell chemistry that protects from deterioration at extreme high and low states of charge, it means they are sacrificing pack longevity to get maximal EPA range ratings. As an owner, I will plan every trip based on charging up to 90% and not letting the pack drop below 20% (just to leave margin for unexpected delays, inclement weather, or extreme topography en route).

All of this -- together with my preferred highway speed of around 80 mph -- means I will be assuming ~250 miles of real-world range in the Lucid Dream P on 21" wheels on a long road trip. However, that's still over 3 hours or driving, and more than I would want to do without a break.
This is exactly why I have always wanted a car with AT LEAST 500 miles of range. I have stated that earlier and so many responded that 500 miles was overkill and one needs to take breaks. However….

1) EPA range is rarely real world range. A 500 mile range will not translate to 500 miles at highway speed
2) when on a trip, one never uses the full range for multiple reasons, but most specifically, the charging time slows dramatically after 80%. Because of the unreliability and lack of availability of charging stations, I would never want to go below 20%. Therefore the effective EPA range of a 500 mile car is only 300 miles (20-80%)
3) batteries degrade over time. What is miles today is not 500 miles tomorrow. Unlike an ICE where a 20g gas tank stays a 20g gas tank and, if you keep your car tuned, it should generate the same range in 5 years as it did on day one. EVs are not like that. Range will decrease over time and I really don’t want to all of a sudden find out my effective range is not 300 miles but rather 100. At which point, I can no longer use the car for anything but local driving.

so… 500 miles is effectively 300 miles by EPA. 300 miles is really 240 in real world driving. every 240 miles requires a 30-40 minute stop. This is always with a new car. Not an older one……
 

hydbob

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Route I have to take is I-40 out of Williams to Route 89, over to Route 160 and then Route 191 to Moab. I can't tell if this is the route of the screen shots.
This is basically that section...
Screenshot_20211130-081207_Lucid.jpg
 
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