Lucid out of the list for Supercharge spring 2024 release

[chris]

I mean, I dunno about that. Theres some aspects that I admire (confidence, even if its misguided, SOMETIMES willing to support his team like sleeping on the factory floor, starting some very influential companies such as spacex/tesla, both of which set a standard in their respective fields , etc). However, he goes way overboard on these aspects and most of his other aspects are very undesirable. His recent actions/companies have also been terrible, such as the Boring Company and their lack of progress. If you asked me before 2016, I'd probably say hes a genius.

Perhaps I went too far offering him to be bordering on sociopath BUT he has some very different tendencies.

For example:
As a woman, I'd certainly never want to date him.. lol. I'm happily married so its not even a real option anyway but after reading how he treats woman and his crazy requirements and 'rules' sounded a lot like pieces of 'shades of gray' and way too controlling for me.

..and his lies that can easily be proven as lies-- like WTF is this man thinking trying to say his former chief engineer was 'insignificant' an not involved with the Model S anyway? Why do that? I can understand being upset about him leaving your company and all that but can't you at least be an adult about it? I would have had more respect for Elon if he simply said nothing with that situation!

 

[hydbob]

This is definitely a conversation about Superchargers...

 

[borski]

I mean, I dunno about that. Theres some aspects that I admire (confidence, even if its misguided, SOMETIMES willing to support his team like sleeping on the factory floor, starting some very influential companies such as spacex/tesla, both of which set a standard in their respective fields , etc). However, he goes way overboard on these aspects and most of his other aspects are very undesirable. His recent actions/companies have also been terrible, such as the Boring Company and their lack of progress. If you asked me before 2016, I'd probably say hes a genius.

He’s not a genius. He’s smart, but he’s not Ironman.

And again, I feel it’s important to reiterate that the myth is often greater than reality; he did not start Tesla, for example. He did make it big, but he actually wasn’t a founder, which people often forget.

But, let’s move on and keep this on topic.

 

[mshmovie]

After Musk claimed Rawlinson was nothing but an inconsequential chassis engineer at Tesla who had little to do with the Model S, "InsideEVs" located the archived press release that Tesla issued in April 2010 announcing that Rawlinson was joining Tesla as the Chief Engineer on the Model S and specifically mentioned he would be responsible for bringing the car to production.

Then in 2011, it was Rawlinson on the podium at the Los Angeles Auto Show unveiling the car to the public. "Car & Driver" and "Motor Trend" both interviewed him there, identifying him as the Chief Engineer of the car.

Here's the link to InsideEV's article: https://insideevs.com/photos/732161...hoto-upload/#5806020_peter-rawlinson-at-tesla

The two videos are now private (I assume, not know, that it's under the control of a Tesla account and it no longer served them to keep them up and available on YouTube).

Below is a paste of an image of the press release.

 

[chris]

anyway, here's hoping Tesla provides plenty of version 4 chargers capable of supporting 800V technology by 2025!

 

[Snafu]

^ and as I understand it, the 'magic doc' only provides 50kW max if you are using it with Lucid. Getting Bolt charging speeds doesn't appeal at all!

The issue for me is that we have so few CCS available that I'll take a crappy 50 kW to get me to a CCS charger in an emergency if I am on a road trip. I'm hoping to make my NH-to-CA trip this summer, and .... any port in a storm. It's better than an L2.

 

[Chrry]

Perhaps I went too far offering him to be bordering on sociopath BUT he has some very different tendencies.

For example:
As a woman, I'd certainly never want to date him.. lol. I'm happily married so its not even a real option anyway but after reading how he treats woman and his crazy requirements and 'rules' sounded a lot like pieces of 'shades of gray' and way too controlling for me.

..and his lies that can easily be proven as lies-- like WTF is this man thinking trying to say his former chief engineer was 'insignificant' an not involved with the Model S anyway? Why do that? I can understand being upset about him leaving your company and all that but can't you at least be an adult about it? I would have had more respect for Elon if he simply said nothing with that situation!

I think you were spot on.
Genius? Most definitely. But I also would NEVER have any desire to even be a distant friend to someone like him.

 

[Chrry]

Oooopsie…. Annnnnd back to the super chargers

 

[chris]

The issue for me is that we have so few CCS available that I'll take a crappy 50 kW to get me to a CCS charger in an emergency if I am on a road trip. I'm hoping to make my NH-to-CA trip this summer, and .... any port in a storm. It's better than an L2.

That's crazy! I admit I never looked into going across the country like that but but I was VERY pleasantly surprised that for the Chicago/Phoenix roadtrip we took last year in December! The EA chargers alone were almost always 80 miles apart (2 rare cases they were 145 miles apart) <-- which was more than acceptable for Lucid anyway and worked out very well for us! I even had a spreadsheet put together ahead of time to know all the addresses just in case we ran into issues with the NAV stopping working (it didn't btw).. but being my 1st big EV trip, I wanted to have contingencies in place and paper hardcopy seemed best!

 

[Lucidthinking]

New guy here. I was just at a Lucid studio as I’m on the verge of buying. The salesperson said “as of yesterday, if you have the adapter, you can now charge your Lucid vehicle on the Tesla supercharger network.”

Anyone confirm this is accurate?

 

[Adnillien]

New guy here. I was just at a Lucid studio as I’m on the verge of buying. The salesperson said “as of yesterday, if you have the adapter, you can now charge your Lucid vehicle on the Tesla supercharger network.”

Anyone confirm this is accurate?

This is not true. Right now only Ford vehicles are working to charge on the Tesla network.

 

[Lucidthinking]

This is not true. Right now only Ford vehicles are working to charge on the Tesla network.

Thanks. The same person told me I get $3k off for a vehicle in stock but I spoke with the national sales center and they said that doesn't apply to a lease.

 

[Haggy]

It's disappointing to hear that it's not on the list for 2024, but my disappointment is not for the reasons that many non-owners think. The biggest problem I see is with people holding off on buying a car because they are told to wait for Lucid to switch to a NACS port. If Lucid did that today, new buyers would be in trouble.

Even if Tesla opened up its network today, you'd probably have more need for an adapter to allow you to use CCS if the car had an NACS port. For now, Tesla's V2 chargers won't be opening up to any other vehicles. And it's likely that they never will, but will have to be replaced. V3 chargers could, in theory, charge a Lucid if an adapter is used. But it would work at 50kW, which means that instead of a theoretical ability to add 200 miles in 12 minutes with CCS, it would become well over an hour. And that's if you could find a V3 charger with cables that reach. There aren't any that work in a normal parking position.

V4 chargers at 1000V fix the problem. So far, the number deployed by Tesla in the US is zero. While V4 chargers are nice in theory, a non-existent network doesn't help. When they do start to roll out, they will have magic docks, and long cables. So the need for an adapter will be a moot point. Charging with a V4 charger will be about as easy regardless of which port any given Lucid will have. For now, Tesla hasn't put in any V4 chargers with the back end hardware needed for 1000V support. So it's not a question of when Tesla allows Lucid, but of when Tesla has something worthwhile to offer. I reasonably expect Tesla to allow Lucid on board by the time it matters. I just hope that in the interim, CCS providers up their game and add NACS cables so that people who buy cars with NACS ports have a place to charge if Tesla doesn't step up its game.

 

[Tâm]

It's disappointing to hear that it's not on the list for 2024, but my disappointment is not for the reasons that many non-owners think. The biggest problem I see is with people holding off on buying a car because they are told to wait for Lucid to switch to a NACS port. If Lucid did that today, new buyers would be in trouble.

Even if Tesla opened up its network today, you'd probably have more need for an adapter to allow you to use CCS if the car had an NACS port. For now, Tesla's V2 chargers won't be opening up to any other vehicles. And it's likely that they never will, but will have to be replaced. V3 chargers could, in theory, charge a Lucid if an adapter is used. But it would work at 50kW, which means that instead of a theoretical ability to add 200 miles in 12 minutes with CCS, it would become well over an hour. And that's if you could find a V3 charger with cables that reach. There aren't any that work in a normal parking position.

V4 chargers at 1000V fix the problem. So far, the number deployed by Tesla in the US is zero. While V4 chargers are nice in theory, a non-existent network doesn't help. When they do start to roll out, they will have magic docks, and long cables. So the need for an adapter will be a moot point. Charging with a V4 charger will be about as easy regardless of which port any given Lucid will have. For now, Tesla hasn't put in any V4 chargers with the back end hardware needed for 1000V support. So it's not a question of when Tesla allows Lucid, but of when Tesla has something worthwhile to offer. I reasonably expect Tesla to allow Lucid on board by the time it matters. I just hope that in the interim, CCS providers up their game and add NACS cables so that people who buy cars with NACS ports have a place to charge if Tesla doesn't step up its game.

Ford beat every one by announcing the deal first so there's no surprises that they are activated first.

I think most of not all brands (Ford, GM, Mercedes, EVgo...) have planned to include NACS in their own charging networks. Tesla is no longer a monopoly of NACS (Tesla's still a monopoly of Superchargers just like EVgo a monopoly of its own EVgo chargers).

When Tesla takes Federal NEVI subsidies, it will have to comply to have at least 4 stalls capable of 920V per station.

Tesla might go cheap to build 4 920V stalls while the rest 16 or 96 stalls in a station might still be 400v.

Historically, instead of converting an existing V2 station into V3, it just leaves those V2 alone and add additional V3 instead. No down time for the convesion while the numbers of stalls are increased.

I suspect it will be the same with V4.

That means Lucid car owners will be stuck with 50 kw slow Superchargers for a foreseeable future.

It'll be nice if I will get a higher charging rate sooner, but in the meantime, 50kw is still better than 0kw if other faster options are not available.

 

[Haggy]

Tesla might go cheap to build 4 920V stalls while the rest 16 or 96 stalls in a station might still be 400v.

Historically, instead of converting an existing V2 station into V3, it just leaves those V2 alone and add additional V3 instead. No down time for the convesion while the numbers of stalls are increased.

I suspect it will be the same with V4.

A difference is that with V4, Tesla is starting off with 400V. My assumption is that they are doing so because it's better to deploy them than deploy V4 and have to upgrade everything later on. This leaves room for upgrading what feeds the chargers later. I think that there's a good chance that 400V v4 will get upgraded to 1000V when Tesla adds new 1000v chargers later in the same areas rather than leaving a mix of lower and higher voltage v4.

Moving from V2 to V3 was something different because adding new ones was of more value than replacing old ones. That left both, while using the V3 equipment to replace V2 would have resulted in no new chargers, but with as much capital costs for equipment.

V2 chargers were barely adequately deployed to support the existing volume of cars, so there are plenty of cars that will continue to use them for the foreseeable future. Owners of older Teslas might seek them out since they are more available, but there are plenty of drivers who have no idea what the difference is. Some will use V4 or V3 anyway, thinking that it's better, even if it won't charge their car any faster.

Hopefully Tesla will be able to figure out how to direct people to an appropriate charger. They could use geolocation to determine arrival at a location and then display a charger number, for example. But it won't be smooth unless all manufacturers integrate compatibile software rather than "pay at the pump."

 

[Tâm]

A difference is that with V4, Tesla is starting off with 400V. My assumption is that they are doing so because it's better to deploy them than deploy V4 and have to upgrade everything later on. This leaves room for upgrading what feeds the chargers later. I think that there's a good chance that 400V v4 will get upgraded to 1000V when Tesla adds new 1000v chargers later in the same areas rather than leaving a mix of lower and higher voltage v4.

Agreed. I think fake V4 with 400V cabinets will be swapped out with 1000V cabinets.

I have no idea why not do real V4 instead of fake V4, but I guess it costs less to ramp up the number of stalls first with fake V4. Then, when there's money, it'll do a cabinet swap out later.

Hopefully Tesla will be able to figure out how to direct people to an appropriate charger. They could use geolocation to determine arrival at a location and then display a charger number, for example. But it won't be smooth unless all manufacturers integrate compatibile software rather than "pay at the pump."

Owners who follow Ford Navigation won't be directed to the obsolete V2 chargers.

Ford Navigation already has the Tesla Supercharger status (2 of 16 available), but I am unsure if it's real-time or if it can specify which stalls are out of order.

If Ford Navigation is still incomplete, drivers will still be inconvenienced by opening up a cell phone Tesla app to look for real-time information.

 

[Haggy]

If Ford Navigation is still incomplete, drivers will still be inconvenienced by opening up a cell phone Tesla app to look for real-time information.

Pseudo-real-time. It's close enough for practical purposes but it's not quite real time.

 

[HC_79]

The biggest problem I see is with people holding off on buying a car because they are told to wait for Lucid to switch to a NACS port. If Lucid did that today, new buyers would be in trouble.

100%. I for one won't be buying a Gravity if it first comes with CCS to then change to NACS later, I'll wait for NACS. I think I read somewhere it will come with NACS but if shopping for a new vehicle now I wouldn't be buying one even when promised an adapter. No one knows the true speed these adapters can deliver so if they're limited to 150Kw and your car is capable of charging above that then buying a CCS car with a NACS adapter isn't helpful to you for years to come.

 

[hydbob]

Agreed. I think fake V4 with 400V cabinets will be swapped out with 1000V cabinets.

I have no idea why not do real V4 instead of fake V4, but I guess it costs less to ramp up the number of stalls first with fake V4. Then, when there's money, it'll do a cabinet swap out later.




Owners who follow Ford Navigation won't be directed to the obsolete V2 chargers.

Ford Navigation already has the Tesla Supercharger status (2 of 16 available), but I am unsure if it's real-time or if it can specify which stalls are out of order.

If Ford Navigation is still incomplete, drivers will still be inconvenienced by opening up a cell phone Tesla app to look for real-time information.

The real question is why haven't Tesla installed a single V4 anywhere? Is it because they are full of crap and can't actually deliver the power?

 

[Tâm]

100%. I for one won't be buying a Gravity if it first comes with CCS to then change to NACS later, I'll wait for NACS. I think I read somewhere it will come with NACS but if shopping for a new vehicle now I wouldn't be buying one even when promised an adapter. No one knows the true speed these adapters can deliver so if they're limited to 150Kw and your car is capable of charging above that then buying a CCS car with a NACS adapter isn't helpful to you for years to come.

Time is a precious commodity: Some people will wait, but others won't.