Lucid motors power capped low?

[DoneBurning]

The Lucid tech talk (link and transcript here) claims that the "lucid integrated drive unit" is good for 670 hp. Does Lucid have more than one drive unit? If not, then they are artificially capped in different vehicles. Of course each motor needs an appropriately-sized inverter to drive it to a given power level, so the same question applies to inverters.

Model	Combined power/motor​
Pure RWD	430/1=430​
Pure AWD	480/2=240​
Touring	620/2=310​
Grand Touring	819/2=409.5​
Sapphire	1,234/3=411​

When these fabulous high power per weight (10hp/pound), high volumetric power density motors are dialed back to an average 240hp in the Pure AWD the metrics look terrible. The Touring also suffers.

Correct me if I'm wrong--do they have smaller, lower-output motors for these applications?

I'm sure someone clever could design a modification to remove these constraints. That would throw a big wrench in Lucid's pecking order/pricing hierarchy.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

I can tell you that, other than amenity options such as the roof, interior materials, and the like, my 2023 Pure AWD is exactly the same car as the 2023 Touring, Both cars have exactly the same weight on their door placard. Same battery, same motors, same suspension, etc.. As I understand it, the horsepower difference between the two is purely software driven.

 

[xponents]

The Lucid tech talk (link and transcript here) claims that the "lucid integrated drive unit" is good for 670 hp. Does Lucid have more than one drive unit? If not, then they are artificially capped in different vehicles. Of course each motor needs an appropriately-sized inverter to drive it to a given power level, so the same question applies to inverters.

Model	Combined power/motor​
Pure RWD	430/1=430​
Pure AWD	480/2=240​
Touring	620/2=310​
Grand Touring	819/2=409.5​
Sapphire	1,234/3=411​

When these fabulous high power per weight (10hp/pound), high volumetric power density motors are dialed back to an average 240hp in the Pure AWD the metrics look terrible. The Touring also suffers.

Correct me if I'm wrong--do they have smaller, lower-output motors for these applications?

I'm sure someone clever could design a modification to remove these constraints. That would throw a big wrench in Lucid's pecking order/pricing hierarchy.

Yes, the lower trims are power limited as @Buffalo Bob said. I'm guessing this is to keep a clear hierarchy between the trims. You also have to remember that the total power is dictated by the output the battery can sustain, which is why the Sapphire doesn't just have 2010 hp despite 670 x 3.

(Also, do note that the Pure RWD for 2024 actually has a different battery from the Pure AWD/Touring.)

 

[Buffalo Bob]

I can tell you that, other than amenity options such as the roof, interior materials, and the like, my 2023 Pure AWD is exactly the same car as the 2023 Touring, Both cars have exactly the same weight on their door placard. Same battery, same motors, same suspension, etc.. As I understand it, the horsepower difference between the two is purely software driven.

I imagine that, ala Tesla, I may someday receive an email from Lucid offering me the option to boost my peak horsepower for a small additional fee, There might even be varying power-level choices. BTW, by 'small additional fee', I mean a large positive integer.

 

[borski]

I can tell you that, other than amenity options such as the roof, interior materials, and the like, my 2023 Pure AWD is exactly the same car as the 2023 Touring, Both cars have exactly the same weight on their door placard. Same battery, same motors, same suspension, etc.. As I understand it, the horsepower difference between the two is purely software driven.

Software and battery; in some cases, the battery limits power throughput. But yes, in general, mostly software.

 

[Pragmatic]

I would think all of the difference are battery, power electronics and software. The smaller battery packs don't supply the same current and amperage as the larger ons.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Software and battery; in some cases, the battery limits power throughput. But yes, in general, mostly software.

I don't think that is true about the specific example I was referencing, which was the 2023 Pure AWD vs. the 2023 Touring. Isn't that purely software? (I imagine that the battery would come into play if I were comparing the 2023 Pure AWD with the 2023 Grand Touring.) On a related note, what do you think is the maximum theoretical HP a Pure AWD owner could be offered, range issues aside? I imagine that it closer to the GT's 800+ than the T's 600+.

 

[xponents]

I don't think that is true about the specific example I was referencing, which was the 2023 Pure AWD vs. the 2023 Touring. Isn't that purely software? (I imagine that the battery would come into play if I were comparing the 2023 Pure AWD with the 2023 Grand Touring.) On a related note, what do you think is the maximum theoretical HP a Pure AWD owner could be offered, range issues aside? I imagine that it closer to the GT's 800+ than the T's 600+.

Well, none of us can really be too sure if the Touring is "maxed out" or not. The Pure AWD would be able to handle at minimum 620 hp, but we really don't know if the 112 kwh is needed to achieve the 800+ hp.

 

[CoasterNerd]

It's quite likely that it's not just a software limitation. All of the electrical cabling/connections/inverters, whatever it is in between the battery and the motor have to be appropriately sized to handle the current required to max out the motor. All of those things cost money, so it's quite likely that they use smaller cheaper electrical cables, etc. in the lower HP trims, and then limit power via software so as to ensure not overloading the cables/connectors, etc.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

You are right about that to a degree, but the other side of that coin is that there is a cost:benefit to maintaining that level of differentiation. For example, you could make the same argument about the motors themselves, and we know they are the same in this case. It's just more cost effective to have the same hardware within certain ranges of performance. Something like the pricey Sapphire pulls out all the stops to strive for max performance, and for good reason. In the case of the 2023 Pure AWD vs. the 2023 Touring, the performance specs are close enough to not warrant those changes. Remember also how Tesla and other EV makers offer their customers the option to increase their HP via an OTA update. I don't want to get into the weeds on details, but from both cars having the exact same weight to decoding the meaning all of those VIN numbers, I'm pretty convinced that both cars have identical powertrains.

 

[Pragmatic]

Does it really matter. Pure and Touring likely can't reach GTA levels of performance. If Pure is limited by software Lucid will likely never issue an after the fact upgrade as they'd lose credibility with their customers.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Does it really matter. Pure and Touring likely can't reach GTA levels of performance. If Pure is limited by software Lucid will likely never issue an after the fact upgrade as they'd lose credibility with their customers.

Oh, Oh. Maybe I've set off turf protection. There IS no way that Pure and Touring will reach GTA performance levels, as there ARE hardware/battery differences involved. You can't generalize what I was saying beyond the two specific trims I was talking about. As far as Lucid never offering a performance upgrade... They would certainly be in good company if they did. Also, there is a long blank 'upgrades' section on the Lucid Owners Web Site. They must have something in mind for that tab.

 

[Pax]

There are several differences based on software but these are the known hardware differences that I know of.

• There is a ~600hp motor and a full 670hp motor. I'm not sure about the physical differences such as size and weight but there are two distinct units. I'm certain all general motors, including the Sapphire have the 600hp motor. The only exception that has the 670hp motor is used as the rear motor in Dream Editions and GTP.
• The original three battery types do supply different voltage and amperage, this enabling more or less power. This is why there's also decent difference between Pure and Touring and the higher end ones in terms of charging - voltage diff. I added the two newer 2024 ones at the top, but the bottom three illustrate the hardware differences.
  • 2024 Pure which as 16 module 88 kwh, presumably using 756V. Optimized for density and lower output power delivery. Unknown on the new supplier.
  • 2024 GT has 18 module 118 kwh, maybe using Samsung cells below.
  • Sapphire, GTP, and Dreams have the 924V 118kwh 22 module battery using Samsung cells, probably optimized to have higher power delivery for performance.
  • Touring and initial Pure AWD have the 756V 92kwh 18 module battery using LG cells for balance between density and power delivery. Later Pure has a 88kwh version that's software limited (not including 2024 ones).
  • Standard GT has the 924V 112kwh 22 module batteryusing LG cells, same as the Touring/Pure above but with more modules. Higher voltage enables more performance here.
• Higher voltage means higher power delivery throughputs for both output for performance and input for charging. Hence there is a difference amongst the models but mostly based on battery, very little on the motors themselves now.

Source - Various interviews.

 

[xponents]

There are several differences based on software but these are the known hardware differences that I know of.

• There is a ~600hp motor and a full 670hp motor. I'm not sure about the physical differences such as size and weight but there are two distinct units. I'm certain all general motors, including the Sapphire have the 600hp motor. The only exception that has the 670hp motor is used as the rear motor in Dream Editions and GTP.
• The original three battery types do supply different voltage and amperage, this enabling more or less power. This is why there's also decent difference between Pure and Touring and the higher end ones in terms of charging - voltage diff. I added the two newer 2024 ones at the top, but the bottom three illustrate the hardware differences.
  • 2024 Pure which as 16 module 88 kwh, presumably using 756V. Optimized for density and lower output power delivery. Unknown on the new supplier.
  • 2024 GT has 18 module 118 kwh, maybe using Samsung cells below.
  • Sapphire, GTP, and Dreams have the 924V 118kwh 22 module battery using Samsung cells, probably optimized to have higher power delivery for performance.
  • Touring and initial Pure AWD have the 756V 92kwh 18 module battery using LG cells for balance between density and power delivery. Later Pure has a 88kwh version that's software limited (not including 2024 ones).
  • Standard GT has the 924V 112kwh 22 module batteryusing LG cells, same as the Touring/Pure above but with more modules. Higher voltage enables more performance here.
• Higher voltage means higher power delivery throughputs for both output for performance and input for charging. Hence there is a difference amongst the models but mostly based on battery, very little on the motors themselves now.

Source - Various interviews.

If you don't mind, could I have a link to the interviews you have got this information from?

 

[Pax]

Small tidbits:

• Rawlinson on 600hp v 670hp motor
• Spec sheet from Wikipedia
• Rest you can probably search for through the forum

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Small tidbits:

• Rawlinson on 600hp v 670hp motor
• Spec sheet from Wikipedia
• Rest you can probably search for through the forum

Another data source is to use a VIN decoder. Most of those letters and numbers have a specific meaning about that specific vehicle.

 

[Buffalo Bob]

Small tidbits:

• Rawlinson on 600hp v 670hp motor
• Spec sheet from Wikipedia
• Rest you can probably search for through the forum

BTW, be careful about relying on Wikipedia, as most data is user input and unverified. For example, contrary to the Wikipedia spec sheet, all of the Pure's produced with up to a 2023 model year were AWDs with a 92kW battery, and all 2024 model year Pures are RWD with a 88 kW battery. I didn't look at the details beyond that, but you see what I mean...

 

[Pragmatic]

Well correct them.

 

[Pax]

Wikipedia isn't bad, just use the source links below if any seem off

Anyways I linked it as I don't have all of the information off hand as this is just me reading around, but there's been plenty of similar discussions here on the forum that mention these topics and have good links too.