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Lucid Air Features and Configuration Questions

hmp10

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Do you have a link to that?
Lucid put in on their twitter feed:


It's interesting that they said "customer deliveries" will start in late October. As delivery can easily take a couple of weeks beyond shipping date, this suggests cars will be leaving the factory within the next couple of weeks, unless the first deliveries are going to customers nearest the factory.
 

Adnillien

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This makes me somewhat apprehensive. Will we have the same problem when it comes time to service our cars. Will they also deny there is a problem when something goes wrong.
Peter R. was just on CNBC encouraging a comparison with Mecerdes EQS. He is building the Lucid brand and he knows that poor customer service will tarnish that image very quickly, especially at the price point of the Lucid cars including the Air Pure. I think initial service will likely be excellent.
 

Lucken

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hmp10

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I'm wondering if that 112kWh was a typo or whether Lucid increased the buffer in the GT pack in order to keep its range a smidge below the flagship Dream Edition? I seriously doubt there's any hardware difference between the 112-kWh and 113-kWh rating.
 

Adnillien

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I’m assuming the 13,000 reservation number is for all iterations of Lucid.
It has to be for all trims. Back when Lucid was at 10,000 reservations they included a value that made it just under $90k per car so there has to be a lot of Air Pures in that mix.
 

Adnillien

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I'm wondering if that 112kWh was a typo or whether Lucid increased the buffer in the GT pack in order to keep its range a smidge below the flagship Dream Edition? I seriously doubt there's any hardware difference between the 112-kWh and 113-kWh rating.
I agree that the hardware is likely the same. However, the EPA numbers showed more energy going into the dream than into the GT. I think there is likely a difference in buffer or what battery capacity is made available in the GT versus Dream.
 

dawktah LucidGT

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Lucid put in on their twitter feed:


It's interesting that they said "customer deliveries" will start in late October. As delivery can easily take a couple of weeks beyond shipping date, this suggests cars will be leaving the factory within the next couple of weeks, unless the first deliveries are going to customers nearest the factory.
Just for the record the word "late" is not on that tweet.
 

hmp10

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I agree that the hardware is likely the same. However, the EPA numbers showed more energy going into the dream than into the GT. I think there is likely a difference in buffer or what battery capacity is made available in the GT versus Dream.
I wonder if we'll ever find out what is behind Lucid's claim that it co-developed proprietary battery cells with both Samsung and LG Chem that have greater tolerance for fast charging (and full charging?) than other Li-Ion cells? Is it a different cell chemistry? Is it a different physical structure? Is graphite involved?
 

hmp10

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Adnillien

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I wonder if we'll ever find out what is behind Lucid's claim that it co-developed proprietary battery cells with both Samsung and LG Chem that have greater tolerance for fast charging (and full charging?) than other Li-Ion cells? Is it a different cell chemistry? Is it a different physical structure? Is graphite involved?
I remember Lucid talking about end cooling battery cells long before Tesla started talking about it. It could be a technique learned from the Atieva racing that they carried over to Lucid and Tesla picked up on.
 

hmp10

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I remember Lucid talking about end cooling battery cells long before Tesla started talking about it. It could be a technique learned from the Atieva racing that they carried over to Lucid and Tesla picked up on.
I'm pretty sure that Lucid's battery pack engineering and power management are at the cutting edge. However, I think that is completely in-house technology and partially independent of the cells themselves. Reports are that the Dream Edition will use cells from Samsung, and other versions of the Air will use cells from LG Chem. In discussing its collaboration with each manufacturer, Lucid suggested the Samsung joint venture was more about cell chemistry while the work with LG Chem was more about optimizing the battery pack to take best advantage of the cell chemistry.

This is from a December 6, 2016 release from Lucid:

"Samsung SDI and Lucid have collaborated to develop next-generation cylindrical cells that are able to exceed current performance benchmarks in areas such as energy density, power, calendar life and safety. Significantly, this jointly developed cell [my emphasis] achieves breakthrough tolerance to repeated fast charging."

The February 24, 2020 announcement of the LG Chem agreement seemed to suggest that the collaboration was now more about using LG cells as they are but engineering the pack to optimize their characteristics:

"Lucid selects the best battery cell for each version of the Lucid Air based on data collected during comprehensive and proprietary performance tests, with the cells from LG Chem selected because they provide the ideal level of efficiency for standard versions of the Lucid Air. In conjunction with its proprietary battery architecture and flexible manufacturing technique, Lucid will optimize the LG Chem cells to meet or exceed all target goals for range, energy density, recharge/discharge rates, and more. In this way, Lucid will leverage the specific cell chemistry of LG Chem’s batteries to develop the most compact, yet energy dense, battery pack form possible."

These two announcements were over three years apart. Perhaps some of what came out of the 2016 collaboration relating to cell chemistry advancements had become more widespread by 2020?

You have written earlier that you think the battery packs may be different between the Dream and the Grand Touring. I have tended to think not. But as I ponder what I just wrote here, I'm thinking you are right. The packs for the Dream and the GT use cells from different companies. The chemistries may differ enough to explain some of what you're seeing in the energy consumption numbers vs. range numbers.
 
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hmp10

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Sorry for being literal...
You were right, of course, about the twitter post. I had seen the "late October" date in that website story and the "October" date in the twitter post and conflated the two into one source . . . and I don't like being that sloppy when citing sources.
 
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Lucken

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Admittedly, I haven't had a chance to watch this yet, but the Kilowatts live tweeted their test drive of the Dream P. Hope the video is good, and sorry if it isn't:

It's too bad the video & audio quality was so poor, but I assume that was due to the live streaming. I would think they would have recorded this same test drive to a local drive, so if that's released it should be considerably better. It's also odd that these test drives pick up so much noise and yet the occupants are always commenting on how quiet the car is. Most importantly the testers seemed very impressed with virtually all aspects of the car.
 

9barsleft

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The level of information seems to vary depending on who you ask. Last week in the Miami studio I was told candidly that they are not given any information that is not given to the general public. However, on an earlier visit I encountered someone who said he had some personal contacts elsewhere in the organization. He gave me two pieces of information that were still under wraps but asked me not to publish them. One of those things has since been verified by a public announcement, and the other is still pending.

I'm not so sure it's a matter of disorganization. I think it's more likely a deliberate decision by Lucid to not risk leaks about matters that have not yet reached final resolution internally -- and there have been quite a few of them.
Lucid is hiring rapidly so it won’t be surprising to see some sales people less knowledgeable than others. Quite possible some old time sales people have direct contact to marketing and engineering thus know much more than they should :)
 

dawktah LucidGT

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It's too bad the video & audio quality was so poor, but I assume that was due to the live streaming. I would think they would have recorded this same test drive to a local drive, so if that's released it should be considerably better. It's also odd that these test drives pick up so much noise and yet the occupants are always commenting on how quiet the car is. Most importantly the testers seemed very impressed with virtually all aspects of the car.
It's a problem with mics on cell phones.
 
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