Low-Regenerative mode?

[Steve181]

I just read the release notes for 2.5 (for my 2025 RWD Pure). It says that Regen. now includes an OFf setting which defaults back to standard when the vehicle is restarted.

 

[ColonelBadger]

Tried it this morning. Very weird. When I switched regen off the vehicle accelerated with the same throttle input, even up hill. I wasn't expecting that. The power meter in the cockpit panel also seemed to suggest I needed less power to keep a constant speed with regen off. Anybody noticed similar? (not sure what that means for efficiency).

 

[Steve181]

I am on 2.5 software in a pure RWD. I have off, low and standard (or high - I cant recall the exact third name at the moment, but it acts grabby.)

I prefer low for my local commuity drives. BUT I am now noticing that when I turn the car off in my preffered low, its starts up again in stanadrd. Urghh!

 

[Bobby]

I am on 2.5 software in a pure RWD. I have off, low and standard (or high - I cant recall the exact third name at the moment, but it acts grabby.)

I prefer low for my local commuity drives. BUT I am now noticing that when I turn the car off in my preffered low, its starts up again in stanadrd. Urghh!

Government requires that it starts up in the mode that was used during EPA testing and validation.

 

[Steve181]

Thanks! That answers my question. I thought I was doing something wrong.

 

[mikecronis]

Is "OFF" completely off, or is there a tiny bit of natural feeling regen like ICE engine braking? One way to tell would be during coasting you'd see the digital dial go into the regen area a bit.
I also suspect there's a regen-only engagement with the brake pedal; I've felt the two types of braking (regen followed by brake-pads) while feathering the brakes when I got to test drive a 2022 GT in a small parking lot for 4 minutes. It was actually pretty noticeable and I had commented on it to the salesman. Early Chevy Volt Gen-1s and the first few dozen Cadillac ELRs made in 2013 had this noticeable 2-mode braking "feel" that was disconcerting as the pads were suddenly more "grabby" when engaged. Gen-2 Chevy Volts and later ELRs smoothed-out the transition to be more progressive and seamless.
Since test-driving a Lucid is almost impossible in Colorado, I have to understand it vicariously through this forum. It's like buying 30 Year Old Macallan; you don't know until you buy it, but you can read forums about batches, years, etc. I had a similar issue with the Gen IV Dodge Viper that you couldn't even sit into at dealerships; I ended up getting a Corvette Grand Sport being more ubiquitous. Surprisingly, Lotus was a lot more easy-going about their Federal Elises.

 

[Bobby]

Is "OFF" completely off, or is there a tiny bit of natural feeling regen like ICE engine braking? One way to tell would be during coasting you'd see the digital dial go into the regen area a bit.
I also suspect there's a regen-only engagement with the brake pedal; I've felt the two types of braking (regen followed by brake-pads) while feathering the brakes when I got to test drive a 2022 GT in a small parking lot for 4 minutes. It was actually pretty noticeable and I had commented on it to the salesman. Early Chevy Volt Gen-1s and the first few dozen Cadillac ELRs made in 2013 had this noticeable 2-mode braking "feel" that was disconcerting as the pads were suddenly more "grabby" when engaged. Gen-2 Chevy Volts and later ELRs smoothed-out the transition to be more progressive and seamless.
Since test-driving a Lucid is almost impossible in Colorado, I have to understand it vicariously through this forum. It's like buying 30 Year Old Macallan; you don't know until you buy it, but you can read forums about batches, years, etc. I had a similar issue with the Gen IV Dodge Viper that you couldn't even sit into at dealerships; I ended up getting a Corvette Grand Sport being more ubiquitous. Surprisingly, Lotus was a lot more easy-going about their Federal Elises.

Off. The dial does not enter the regen area at all.
There is no brake regeneration in the Lucid Air. In any setting.

 

[hmp10]

Since test-driving a Lucid is almost impossible in Colorado, I have to understand it vicariously through this forum.

If you can test drive a Tesla, you'll get the feel of Lucid's braking.

We own both a Lucid Air and a Model S, and they have virtually identical braking feel and behavior. (Remember that Peter Rawlinson was the chief engineer of both cars.)

For what it's worth, I find the regenerative braking and the transition to friction braking in both cars to be superb.

 

[Bobby]

If you can test drive a Tesla, you'll get the feel of Lucid's braking.

We own both a Lucid Air and a Model S, and they have virtually identical braking feel and behavior. (Remember that Peter Rawlinson was the chief engineer of both cars.)

For what it's worth, I find the regenerative braking and the transition to friction braking in both cars to be superb.

There is no regeneration during braking in the Lucid Air. Therefore, there is no transition between modes. The brake pedal activates friction breaks only. This is actually not true of most EVs, but true in the Lucid.

 

[hmp10]

There is no regeneration during braking in the Lucid Air. Therefore, there is no transition between modes. The brake pedal activates friction breaks only. This is actually not true of most EVs, but true in the Lucid.

I know. By the transition I meant what happens when you engage friction braking by pressing the brake pedal. The friction brakes come into play smoothly without causing any detectable surge in the smooth braking force build up other than what you induce by pressing harder on the brake pedal. It's completely seamless.

 

[mikecronis]

There is no regeneration during braking in the Lucid Air. Therefore, there is no transition between modes. The brake pedal activates friction breaks only. This is actually not true of most EVs, but true in the Lucid.

Ah! That explains a few things, then. The salesman was slick but not knowledgeable it seems. Instead, what I felt would have been maybe a "sticky brake pedal" or since likely a fly-by-wire digital experience, the levels of engagement are ramped-up at certain intervals? It was a brand-new '22 at the time. I appreciate the feedback.

"OFF is zero" makes sense then, and so therefore removing one's foot off the throttle pedal would result in a 12-o'clock setting on the power-delivery center dial I suppose. At the time, OFF was not available on the car I was driving.

I did drive the Tesla S Plaid and found the regenerative braking, even in the lowest setting to be jarring and unsettling when the throttle is released. The salesperson said, "You get used to it". Taking your foot off the throttle engages strong regeneration on a Model S to be as if I engaged 1/2 brakes on my braided-brake-line Corvette Grand Sport M6 which, on hills with ice would be devastating transference of weight. Apex cornering could, in my mind, rotate the rear-end around in wet conditions. I found the Tesla steering to be incredibly disengaged and the ride as soft as an SUV, mushy and vague. Handling and road feel were alienated from the experience. I found the Tesla Model S to be more of an "appliance" than a car, like a blender with an ON/OFF setting; very binary and cold without feel. Of the Lucid experience, I felt some more progressiveness and comfort about on-par with my Cadillac CT6 Platinum. The synthetic steering feedback at least had some feel and didn't feel like a Playstation 2 controller like the Tesla.

Luckily, Turo has a Lucid Touring in town (impossibly) and I can take that out for a day for a longer test.

 

[hmp10]

I found the Tesla steering to be incredibly disengaged and the ride as soft as an SUV, mushy and vague.

Huh? We have a Model S Plaid, and the thing rides like a buckboard. Absolutely nothing like the well-controlled but compliant ride of a Lucid Air.

 

[mikecronis]

I think it's a matter of perspective, though maybe in "modes". I think the Tesla S Plaid has a few settings and I was probably in a softer, more compliant one. I think I might have been in "Chill" or "Standard", not sure. I wasn't hip on goofing off with the menus while engaged in aggressive traffic.

Compared to say, a C6 Corvette GS, Lotus Elise or Exige, or Gen III Viper, I found the Telsa to be "mushy". Driving an Elise on rough road for a few hundred miles is punishing like hammer on glass at every pebble, but rewards by exquisite steering and handling feel. I found the Tesla S Plaid to be more in-line with a Mallett Solstice V8 or even a Saturn Sky Redline GMPP edition (I've owned both) and were "soft". The Viper is fairly an abusive ride as well which to me was like riding a supermarket shopping cart down a hill. Just my personal perspective.

I suppose if you owned a Buick Lucerne or any SUV, you might find the Tesla S to be "buckboard" understandably, but I find of the sports cars and hyper-cars I've owned or driven, the Model S Plaid was "mushy" and soft and vague-feeling. You don't feel the tug of the steering yoke when you get a 1" dip in the right side of the road that yanks your arm out of its socket like many sports cars with extreme road-feel requiring aggressive body english to right it back for instance. I have not driven the Ariel Atom but I suspect it would be similar to "buckboard" feel as well.

I've owned several motorcycles, perhaps a dozen in my lifetime. The Can-Am Spyder RT Limited is "soft" and the Honda 600RR is "stiff" and jarring (but in a good way for feel). If your kidneys aren't suffering from a 30 minute jaunt, either on a sports car or bike, then it's not quite "buckboard" in my opinion and more float-y like a 1978 Eldorado.

 

[hmp10]

Compared to say, a C6 Corvette GS, Lotus Elise or Exige, or Gen III Viper, I found the Telsa to be "mushy".

I haven't owned a Corvette since 1998. But I've owned three Audi R8s: 2008 V8 Coupe, 2010 V10 Coupe, and 2011 V10 Spyder.

I have been astonished at how similar our Air Dream Performance is to the Audis in terms of chassis control and ride compliance, especially for two such different car types. Perhaps this arises from their sharing similar suspensions: coil springs over semi-active dampers.

 

[borski]

The salesperson said, "You get used to it".

You do.

 

[hmp10]

You do.

And when we got our first Tesla, it took about 20 minutes to fall in love with it.

 

[borski]

Yes, as of now, the low-regenerative mode (often referred to as "Pure" mode) is still only available on the Pure trim. The GT and other trims stick with the default "Standard" and "High" regenerative options.

If you found "Standard" too grabby, you might want to stick with the Pure trim or see if software updates bring customizable regen settings in the future.

2.5.0 brought “no regen” to all trims. It literally just coasts like an ICE car.

 

[hmp10]

2.5.0 brought “no regen” to all trims. It literally just coasts like an ICE car.

Lucids are very heavy and very powerful cars. I wonder how long brake discs and pads will last if the friction brakes are used for all braking and what effects it might have on stopping distances.

One of the things that was soon noted after Teslas came onto the market was how seldom their brakes needed service due to so much of the braking load being handled by regenerative braking. We owned our first Model S (and made frequent use of its power) for over six years and never once had to have its brakes serviced. And that car didn't even have true one-pedal driving as our newer Tesla and our Lucid do.

I can sometimes make entire trips locally without ever touching the brake pedal to engage the friction brakes.

 

[Pragmatic]

We owned our first Model S (and made frequent use of its power) for over six years and never once had to have its brakes serviced.

Maybe in FL. My last 4 ICE vehicles all needed brakes after 6 or 7 years. Not because the pads were worn. The cars each had ~50 - 60,000 miles at that point. The rotors would rust from salt, calcium and magnesium chloride and moisture. If not driven for a rainy week the rotors would rusted enough to cause a pulsating pedal.

 

[hmp10]

Maybe in FL. My last 4 ICE vehicles all needed brakes after 6 or 7 years. Not because the pads were worn. The cars each had ~50 - 60,000 miles at that point. The rotors would rust from salt, calcium and magnesium chloride and moisture. If not driven for a rainy week the rotors would rusted enough to cause a pulsating pedal.

Not just in Florida. Per Kelley Blue Book:

"The more you use regenerative brakes, the less you need to use traditional friction brakes. That means fewer trips to a service center for brake pads, rotors, and shoes. With regenerative braking, some hybrids and EVs can go around 100,000 miles between brake services."

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/regenerative-brakes-how-they-work/#:~:text=Reduced%20brake%20wear%3A%20The%20more,100%2C000%20miles%20between%20brake%20services.

Also, one of the reasons that VW gave for going with less-expensive drum brakes on their ID electric vehicles is the reduced braking load and the longer service life conferred by regenerative braking.