Lease Deals are INSANELY GREAT

It's not necessarily a guarantee that leasing is better if you intend to buy the car.

It is true that you get a $7500 price reduction because the leasing company gets the benefit of the EV tax credit and will apply it to the cost of the vehicle, and you do not as an individual. So there is a $7500 savings. BUT

The overall value depends a little bit on your personal financial situation and interest rates. You'll be buying the "rest of the car" (the residual value) as a used car. Used car interest rates are usually higher than the typically generous interest rates given by manufacturers to move new cars. If you plan to pay cash at the end of the lease, then undoubtedly you've saved a lot. But if you need to finance most of the purchase price, and right now used car interest rates (according to google, I'm not a banker) are over 7% for super-prime buyers. So depending on trim level and what car you bought and what the actual residual dollar value is, you could end up paying more than $7500 in interest on the used car loan. If they're offering crazy low new car interest rates, you could make up the difference.

$7500 is still a big head start though.
Great point! My assumption above was that you had planned on buying the car outright (in cash) and was comparing that to buying with the current lease deals...
 
Residual values are often expressed as a %age of the purchase price of the car. The leasing company is buying the car for $X dollars. At the end of the lease, the leasing company is setting a value $Y dollars that everyone is agreeing the car will be worth. In a lease, you are essentially paying X - Y over the course of some period of time, with interest, plus whatever taxes and fees might apply.

Manufacturers can incentivize leases and make them better deals for consumers by using a high residual %age. If the residual is 70%, you're paying for 30% of the car's value over the lease term. If it's 60% for the same lease, you're paying 40%, so the monthly payment is higher (and there's more interest). (Manufacturers can also incentivize leases with low interest rates on leases too.)

Residuals are a BIG DEAL because they can significantly change what you're paying for. Someone on here in another thread showed their lease paperwork which suggested they were being given an 85% residual. That is an insane deal - he's only paying for 15% of the car! And getting the EV credit!

Personally I think that's a sad thing to see if you're a Lucid fan because there's no way the car is worth 85% of its original price even in 18 months. I believe Lucid is the financing company and thus will own the used car at the end of the lease. It won't make sense for the customer to buy the car at that residual, so Lucid will be stuck with the car. They'll have to figure out how to unload it, almost certainly for a lot less than 85% of the original price, and they'll have to take some financial write-off at that time. Which will be more grist for the stock price discussion.

All car manufacturers do things to move cars and kick the can down the road a little, but I personally find it worrisome that they're having to go to 85% residuals. I leased a BMW some years ago at what I think was a 60% residual (36 month lease), which I think is more typical of a traditional lease residual.
Lucid's leases currently are listing a specific dollar value. In my case that dollar value works out to be roughly 54% of MSRP...
 
Lucid's leases currently are listing a specific dollar value. In my case that dollar value works out to be roughly 54% of MSRP...

About same for me when I leased my 2024 pure and 54% residual after 36 months of lease is in the ballpark of what other companies are doing as well.
 
Yeah… off msrp. Looks like they’re discounting the sale price very heavily too. Agree that 55-60% is a market residual on a 36 month lease, but usually when you’re talking about residuals it’s as a %age of capital cost. I guess leasing this way and heavily discounting helps prop up msrp for optics. I honestly don’t know how to handicap the EV tax credit.

I wonder if lucid is offering better sales incentive(purchase price discounts) on leases than on new sales? If not, then I don’t know how the lease deals can be that much better than the purchase options, besides the EV tax credit. The only other lever is interest rate.

At the end of the day what matters is whether the residual is reflective of the value on the open market as a used car. If the residual is a lot higher than market, the customer wins. If it’s lower, the leasing company wins. But if lucid, as the leasing company, is knowingly setting high residuals to move cars, it’s a form of kicking the can down the road.
 
I would imagine with pretty significantly higher payments than a 36 months...
Usually the 18 mos payments are cheaper on the Lucid GT compared to 36 mos, at least in past months. Maybe they are similar this month. The 18 mos has always been the sweet spot, since Lucid started the 18 mos lease.
 
Yeah… off msrp. Looks like they’re discounting the sale price very heavily too. Agree that 55-60% is a market residual on a 36 month lease, but usually when you’re talking about residuals it’s as a %age of capital cost. I guess leasing this way and heavily discounting helps prop up msrp for optics. I honestly don’t know how to handicap the EV tax credit.

I wonder if lucid is offering better sales incentive(purchase price discounts) on leases than on new sales? If not, then I don’t know how the lease deals can be that much better than the purchase options, besides the EV tax credit. The only other lever is interest rate.

At the end of the day what matters is whether the residual is reflective of the value on the open market as a used car. If the residual is a lot higher than market, the customer wins. If it’s lower, the leasing company wins. But if lucid, as the leasing company, is knowingly setting high residuals to move cars, it’s a form of kicking the can down the road.
Bank of America is basically the leasing company/Lucid finance. I am not really sure what the internal arrangements are but I assume both have skin in the game. Lease prices are only made better by the additional $7500 loophole. Everything else as far as price goes is the same (minus any interest rate differences).
 
There is no way to pay $544 a month for 18 months and have a 60%residual you mentioned earlier 😉
Residual on my contract says 41,992 and MSRP is 69900 so doesn’t that equal about 60% unless I’m misunderstanding residual percentage and how it is calculated?
 
residual would normally be calculated as a %age of the capital cost of the vehicle, not MSRP.

Wolfman's point is that you can't pay 544/month for 18 months (total of $9,792) and have it make up the difference between $69,900-41,992 = $27,908. Your actual capital cost was far less than 69,900 through discounts and the EV credit.

Just to be clear, the residual is really a dollar amount on the contract, as has been pointed out. But expressing it as a %age is a helpful lens to look at it through. And the leasing company is definitely using %ages to calculate the dollar amounts based on different vehicle trims/options etc.
 
I suspect the agreement between Lucid and BofA as Lucid Financial is not a traditional agreement. Lucid is basically subsidizing these, there's no way BofA is taking on the risk. BofA also doesn't allow transfer of the lease and aren't the ones the vehicles turn in to at the end of the lease. They're basically servicing paperwork/contract/deposit, but I think they're otherwise hands off.

The numbers on the lucid lease were very direct, they don't appear to really be trying to take depreciation into account. I think Lucid is probably doing a calculation that is closer to the actual cost of the vehicle in time & materials as a residual.
 
I leased my 24 AGT two months ago, originally MSRP was over $90k. But my monthly payments are less than the lease on my wife’s XC40 Recharge, and that car’s MSRP was below $60k. So, yes, good deals are aplenty right now. I’m still undecided if I’ll buy it at the end. I don’t typically keep cars more than 2-3 years, but I really do love this car. I just need it to stay reliable. I’d still have that Rivian right now if it wasn’t a total disaster to own
That price looks more like AT, are you sure its AGT?
 
That price looks more like AT, are you sure its AGT?
With the Air Credit at 10k for a 24 post-25 sales + 7500 ev credit, even without the in-stock credit which was another 3k I think, any of the lower priced AGTs could be under 100.
 
I suspect the agreement between Lucid and BofA as Lucid Financial is not a traditional agreement. Lucid is basically subsidizing these, there's no way BofA is taking on the risk. BofA also doesn't allow transfer of the lease and aren't the ones the vehicles turn in to at the end of the lease. They're basically servicing paperwork/contract/deposit, but I think they're otherwise hands off.

The numbers on the lucid lease were very direct, they don't appear to really be trying to take depreciation into account. I think Lucid is probably doing a calculation that is closer to the actual cost of the vehicle in time & materials as a residual.
Agree there is no way BofA is doing more than taking interest and servicing the loan; they are not speculating on used car values other than perhaps as security on the loan.

From Lucid's Site: "Lucid Motors manufactures and sells electric vehicles and ancillary products and services. Bank of America provides financial products and services. Auto loan accounts are owned by Bank of America and lease accounts are originated by Lucid Motors and assigned to Tryon Vehicle Titling Trust. Lease and loan servicing is conducted by Bank of America or its subcontractors under the Lucid Financial Services name. Bank of America and the Bank of America logo are registered trademarks of Bank of America Corporation."

Not sure who Tryon Vehicle Titling Trust is but my guess it's somehow related to Lucid or the Saudis.
 
Given the money factor/rent fee/whatever you want to call it, they aren't taking interest either. Guessing it's a flat fee Lucid is paying them.

Tryon seems to be a division of BofA - their address is inside BofA's building.
 
Huh, interesting re: Tryon. I guess Lucid must be guaranteeing the vehicle at a certain price then. BofA is not going to want to own a car they have to sell and write down.
 
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