Interesting take on Lucid stock

[hmp10]

It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario.

Not necessarily. I think Lucid should make its upcoming cars compatible with both the CCS and NACS standards, either by providing an adapter or an additional charging port with the requisite software to use any charging network. That way Lucid can continue to engineer its cars to charge using a system that Rawlinson envisions -- should it come to pass -- while allowing it meanwhile to use what buyers are quickly coming to see as a long-awaited nationwide plug and charging standard.

As much deep distaste as I have for Elon Musk, I am also tired of hassling with Electrify America's unreliability.

I've posted prolifically about my intent to replace our Honda Odyssey with a Lucid Gravity when it comes out. As that would be our primary road tripper for family and friend visits, I'm not sure I would make the switch if NACS had arrived and the Gravity was not able to use it when CCS stations were not available.

 

[Tâm]

That’s my point, though. There’s a chasm between what Rawlinson said and how the press is characterizing what he said. I listened to the actual interview, and the words “We’re not going to adopt NACS” were never said. There have been no press releases stating as much, either.

Should they make some sort of statement? I don’t see how they can. Moving to NACS would be a huge step backward for the air at the current state of V3 Tesla superchargers. And if they say “We’ll move our cars by 2025, or 2026, or whatever deadline”, there’s no guarantee Tesla will have upgraded their network to 1000v by then.

Not to mention, anyone thinking of buying an Air today will figure the car is already obsolete for having the “wrong plug.” So it will further kill sales in the short term.

It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario.

This is exactly what Elon wants. To put everyone else in a box and make them commit to something that only benefits him.

I don’t see any upside for Lucid talking about this at all. Which is probably why Peter is trying to change the subject. Unsuccessfully.

In my opinions:

Ford, GM, Rivian are all selling CCS cars but they are confident announcing that NACS will be replacing them in 2025 or 2 years.

How can 3 companies are not afraid of the obsolete issue while Lucid is?

 

[joec]

In my opinions:

Ford, GM, Rivian are all selling CCS cars but they are confident announcing that NACS will be replacing them in 2025 or 2 years.

How can 3 companies are not afraid of the obsolete issue while Lucid is?

Let's see where sales go over the next several months. Rivian is already reportedly losing momentum.

This announcement just happened. Let's see what happens in a quarter.

Meanwhile, I encourage folks here to read up on the "Osbourne Effect."

Osborne effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SaratogaLefty]

I guess from my perspective I'm very anxious to hear something about the V2H capability and when we can expect to see it operational. I bought the LCHCS unit specifically so I could utilize the bi-directional charging capability. It was also a consideration in my decision to buy the Lucid in the first place. Yesterday PG&E shut down our power multiple times (albeit this time for not too long each episode) due to "high winds" in our area. Last year during the fire season we were without power for extended periods multiple times. When will I be able to utilize the Lucid to power my home????

 

[hmp10]

Meanwhile, I encourage folks here to read up on the "Osbourne Effect."

Osborne effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure which way you're saying the Osborne effect cuts?

It seems to me the Osborne effect would be triggered by Rawlinson's implying Lucid might stick with the CCS standard based on the future introduction of 1000-volt charging. If NACS were to become the perceived standard in buyers' minds and Lucid did not offer it currently by saying it comes up short of what future charging technology will provide, wouldn't that encourage potential buyers to wait instead of buying a car now that could use a wider array of less-advanced chargers?

The reason I weighed in about this issue on this thread about Lucid stock instead of on a thread about Lucid technology is because I'm looking at this from a marketing angle and its effect on the stock price and sales. I don't doubt that Rawlinson is right about the technology. I'm just worried about Lucid taking on another headwind in buyer perceptions of the brand by showing any hesitation -- no matter how good the technical arguments -- in finding a way to embrace a nationwide charging standard.

 

[HC_79]

It will be interesting to see how Ford, GM, Rivian sales go after the NACS announcement. If I was intending on purchasing one of those cars I would now hold off until the NACS port in natively integrated into the car. Those cars with CCS ports will be seen as obsolete because it's now publicly known a switch is imminent. The fact they announced 12 to 18 months early could have been a mistake. Therefore, I think that Lucid just riding it out and taking the "wait and see" approach is potentially the smarter move, albeit frustrating to some owners. The car is struggling to sell in the current climate, do you want to risk losing any potential customer saying we're moving to NACS and all the cars we have sitting on the lot are effectively outdated. Some people simply won't want to carry an adapter around and currently there is no guarantee that an adapter will deliver high speeds.

@hmp10, I'm with you on the frustrations with Lucid. They're just not good at controlling the narrative and constantly telling the world you have the most efficient car isn't working yet they keep banging that drum over and over to no avail. People argue its efficient because it has a large battery and Peter then brags about companies putting big batteries in cars for range is "dumb range" yet the Air has one of the biggest batteries on the market. Many luxury owners don't understand or want to understand engineering tech so all they see is a car with a big battery that they're paying for. Again, Peter publicly says the battery is the most costly part of the car and smaller battery means cheaper car but then they go and put a 112Kw battering in a car. His arguments are counter intuitive. Lucid bet everything on people wanting a 500 mile range car and now it's not working they can't figure out how to pivot. I fear they're going to make the exact same mistake with Gravity and price themselves out of the market.

My impression of Lucid now is that they made a bunch of promises and have just failed to deliver. The release of the car with all its software issues was horrendous, V2H seems to have. disappeared, DreamDrive Pro features are lacking compared to the competition and the long list of customer wants \ bug fixes from this forum that they're actively looking at seem to be falling on deaf ears. Heck, I don't even get promised mobile service offered to me with the car having to go back to Beverly Hills every time for the most minor issue that they then keep the car for 1 to 2 weeks. The last issue was a child lock error that they once again took the car into the Service Center for a week then they crashed the car when returning it to my home. 6 weeks later, my car is still in the shop. So Peter can bang on about how efficient the car is all he likes but it doesn't solve the problems the company is facing from overloaded service centers to quality control issues and promising a whole bunch of things when the car launched to delivering very little.

Thank god for the PIF because if Lucid didn't have that slush fund with all the missteps they've had they'd be heading for bankruptcy much sooner rather than later.

 

[SDHacker]

In my opinions:

Ford, GM, Rivian are all selling CCS cars but they are confident announcing that NACS will be replacing them in 2025 or 2 years.

How can 3 companies are not afraid of the obsolete issue while Lucid is?

Companies with 400v systems versus those with 800+. If you’re going to compare numbers, it’s 3 companies versus how many that haven’t jumped onto the nacs bandwagon? The European and Asian manufacturers haven’t endorsed nacs. Of course, I could be behind on announcements as I haven’t been following this issue. But knowing that the V3 chargers will only give me 50 kw, I don’t see what the rush is since we have no idea how long it will take for V4 to be widely available. I think saying Lucid is agnostic to the plug being used is right but maybe they need to say they will use whatever is best and widely available

 

[RM-S8]

It will be interesting to see how Ford, GM, Rivian sales go after the NACS announcement. If I was intending on purchasing one of those cars I would now hold off until the NACS port in natively integrated into the car. Those cars with CCS ports will be seen as obsolete because it's now publicly known a switch is imminent. The fact they announced 12 to 18 months early could have been a mistake. Therefore, I think that Lucid just riding it out and taking the "wait and see" approach is potentially the smarter move, albeit frustrating to some owners. The car is struggling to sell in the current climate, do you want to risk losing any potential customer saying we're moving to NACS and all the cars we have sitting on the lot are effectively outdated. Some people simply won't want to carry an adapter around and currently there is no guarantee that an adapter will deliver high speeds.

@hmp10, I'm with you on the frustrations with Lucid. They're just not good at controlling the narrative and constantly telling the world you have the most efficient car isn't working yet they keep banging that drum over and over to no avail. People argue its efficient because it has a large battery and Peter then brags about companies putting big batteries in cars for range is "dumb range" yet the Air has one of the biggest batteries on the market. Many luxury owners don't understand or want to understand engineering tech so all they see is a car with a big battery that they're paying for. Again, Peter publicly says the battery is the most costly part of the car and smaller battery means cheaper car but then they go and put a 112Kw battering in a car. His arguments are counter intuitive. Lucid bet everything on people wanting a 500 mile range car and now it's not working they can't figure out how to pivot. I fear they're going to make the exact same mistake with Gravity and price themselves out of the market.

My impression of Lucid now is that they made a bunch of promises and have just failed to deliver. The release of the car with all its software issues was horrendous, V2H seems to have. disappeared, DreamDrive Pro features are lacking compared to the competition and the long list of customer wants \ bug fixes from this forum that they're actively looking at seem to be falling on deaf ears. Heck, I don't even get promised mobile service offered to me with the car having to go back to Beverly Hills every time for the most minor issue that they then keep the car for 1 to 2 weeks. The last issue was a child lock error that they once again took the car into the Service Center for a week then they crashed the car when returning it to my home. 6 weeks later, my car is still in the shop. So Peter can bang on about how efficient the car is all he likes but it doesn't solve the problems the company is facing from overloaded service centers to quality control issues and promising a whole bunch of things when the car launched to delivering very little.

Thank god for the PIF because if Lucid didn't have that slush fund with all the missteps they've had they'd be heading for bankruptcy much sooner rather than later.

If I may ask, who forced you to purchase the car?
I guess, a clear case of a buyer's remorse. Sell the god-damned car and be done with it.

Nice username, btw.

 

[stratus]

I don’t see any reason that Lucid could not say something like Lucid will likely move to NACS when there are plentiful 1000V NACS chargers available with the NACS connector and there is widespread availability of NACS adapters for current Lucid owners and buyers. This would clarify their position on NACS.

They should at least be mentioning this as an option, but in my opinion, their marketing is absolutely horrible. I don’t want to criticize the company, but they do not seem to do anything to help public perception. Not many people care about the technical reasons the 900 volt architecture is literally useless with the current V3 Superchargers. They just want to hear solutions for future improvements to ease of ownership. If Lucid does not get more aggressive with marketing , especially when it comes to guaranteeing a more seamless charging experience, they will be in trouble. Yes, most people charge at home, but no one want hassles when going on road trips.
Just come out and say, unequivocally, that all options will be considered , including NACS, as long as it improves user experiences. Even if they eventually do not adopt that position, because there is a better way forward, it’s still a better marketing tactic and will give prospective buyers more confidence.

 

[HC_79]

If I may ask, who forced you to purchase the car?
I guess, a clear case of a buyer's remorse. Sell the god-damned car and be done with it.

Nice username, btw.

This is the reason I stopped posting in this forum because of people like yourself being so dismissive when someone so much as criticizes Lucid. Lucid has had my car for 4+ months over the last 12 so I have every right to be frustrated with what they promised the car would be to the experience I've gotten. You may be cashed up to just write off a car with a significant loss, I for one am not and the ass has fallen out of these cars in the secondhand market even if I wanted to get rid of it.

 

[RM-S8]

This is the reason I stopped posting in this forum because of people like yourself being so dismissive when someone so much as criticizes Lucid. Lucid has had my car for 4+ months over the last 12 so I have every right to be frustrated with what they promised the car would be to the experience I've gotten. You may be cashed up to just write off a car with a significant loss, I for one am not and the ass has fallen out of these cars in the secondhand market even if I wanted to get rid of it.

I'm not sure how I offended you.
Clearly, you don't like the car, don't like the company. Take your loses and get rid of it.
Tons of members here...love Lucid for an apparent reason, it's one of the best sedans by far.
And that statement have nothing being a fanboy.
Don't know your history with CS, you said 4 months? Really?
What are you not telling us?

 

[joec]

This is the reason I stopped posting in this forum because of people like yourself being so dismissive when someone so much as criticizes Lucid. Lucid has had my car for 4+ months over the last 12 so I have every right to be frustrated with what they promised the car would be to the experience I've gotten. You may be cashed up to just write off a car with a significant loss, I for one am not and the ass has fallen out of these cars in the secondhand market even if I wanted to get rid of it.

Your continuous assertion that people can’t be critical of Lucid on this forum is not backed by reality.

Count the positive vs negative posts on this forum, just on the 21-plus pages of the NACS thread alone, and you quickly realize this accusation is completely unfounded.

Having said that, you absolutely are right to be frustrated. A good number of folks here are. And selling at a big loss is not a helpful suggestion. I agree.

I hope your experience with the car improves. Mine has been mostly positive so far, with a few exceptions. But I know that obviously has not been the case for everyone.

 

[Electrified]

Is there anything stopping us from just using NACS to CCS adapters, if Tesla opens up their Superchargers to Lucid cars?

After all there is a version converting the other way for Tesla cars: https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

Hardware wise it's just wire and plastics, the only thing I see stopping it is corporate politics.

I'm getting beyond my understanding of the technology here, but I have read that the adapters currently available for Tesla-to-CCS conversion do not transmit the full power available from the charger.

IMO the only limit is corporate politics, the hardware is just wire and plastics.

 

[stratus]

This is the reason I stopped posting in this forum because of people like yourself being so dismissive when someone so much as criticizes Lucid. Lucid has had my car for 4+ months over the last 12 so I have every right to be frustrated with what they promised the car would be to the experience I've gotten. You may be cashed up to just write off a car with a significant loss, I for one am not and the ass has fallen out of these cars in the secondhand market even if I wanted to get rid of it.

I am so sorry your experience has been negative, and full of frustration. With such a significant investment, you should happy with the product. I am one of those individuals who has been fortunate to have a seamless experience with the car and it is my hope that everyone eventually does. In reality, a new company may present tremendous challenges, and some people will be unlucky. Here is to better times ahead.

 

[HC_79]

I am so sorry your experience has been negative, and full of frustration. With such a significant investment, you should happy with the product. I am one of those individuals who has been fortunate to have a seamless experience with the car and it is my hope that everyone eventually does. In reality, a new company may present tremendous challenges, and some people will be unlucky. Here is to better times ahead.

Thank you. As much as people tell me to just "move on" with no context I think if they did any due diligence they would see that even with the frustrations, when I have had the car I enjoy every piece of it. I also didn't go in blind thinking there wouldn't be quirks but by no means did I expect Lucid to have my car for this amount of time during ownership. To clarify, it hasn't been 4+ months in one period it's been since ownership so for @RM-S8 who insinuated I was making it up I hope that clarifies the situation.

 

[RM-S8]

Thank you. As much as people tell me to just "move on" with no context I think if they did any due diligence they would see that even with the frustrations, when I have had the car I enjoy every piece of it. I also didn't go in blind thinking there wouldn't be quirks but by no means did I expect Lucid to have my car for this amount of time during ownership. To clarify, it hasn't been 4+ months in one period it's been since ownership so for @RM-S8 who insinuated I was making it up I hope that clarifies the situation.

Yes, it did clarify.
Sorry, for my previous posts. So many fake posts/accounts lately.
Friends?

 

[quantum]

Companies with 400v systems versus those with 800+. If you’re going to compare numbers, it’s 3 companies versus how many that haven’t jumped onto the nacs bandwagon? The European and Asian manufacturers haven’t endorsed nacs. Of course, I could be behind on announcements as I haven’t been following this issue. But knowing that the V3 chargers will only give me 50 kw, I don’t see what the rush is since we have no idea how long it will take for V4 to be widely available. I think saying Lucid is agnostic to the plug being used is right but maybe they need to say they will use whatever is best and widely available

Europeans wont, They use CCS2 as the standard.

 

[quantum]

One solution is for the Saudi's to take a majority stake in Chargepoint and expand 1000V charging. Throw 5 billion at it and start building up a competitor to the NACS ( which I feel is inferior without bidirectional charging and lack of support for anything above 500V). Why be at the mercy of Elon Musk?

 

[quantum]

If Mercedes goes to NACS , thats a final nail in the coffin unless Lucid does as well. Rawlinson should commit and not let his ego get in the way. To hell with the technicals, do what the consumers want. Lucid is too small of a player to dictate anything.

 

[HC_79]

One solution is for the Saudi's to take a majority stake in Chargepoint and expand 1000V charging. Throw 5 billion at it and start building up a competitor to the NACS ( which I feel is inferior without bidirectional charging and lack of support for anything above 500V). Why be at the mercy of Elon Musk?

No CCS provider has proven they can deliver a reliable network, ChargePoint included. Money alone won’t solve the problem and for any investor to catch up to Tesla is a multi year, multi billion dollar project. Permitting let alone all the politics behind it would already slow it down.

If Mercedes goes to NACS , thats a final nail in the coffin unless Lucid does as well. Rawlinson should commit and not let his ego get in the way. To hell with the technicals, do what the consumers want. Lucid is too small of a player to dictate anything.

Not sure why everyone keeps assuming it’s Peter’s ego that is getting in the way on switching to NACS. He was quite clear in the interview that it’s about 1000v and nothing to do with the plug, nothing to do with ego. If Tesla rolls out 1000v chargers and Peter keeps holding out when everyone else jumps on board do you really think the board would allow that? I think he’d be told to leave his ego at the door as it’s not in the best interests of the company to not adopt.

For now, it’s all rumor and speculation on when Tesla will deploy 1000v chargers in the US. We know the V4’s in Europe support 1000v but Tesla only opted to deliver 500v to them. Lucid is right to be wary of committing when all information about Tesla’s V4 / 1000v rollout Has come from a bunch of media and know it all influencers who talk like they’ve got a seat at the board at these companies and know the ins and outs of all the discussions taking place.

Ford, GM etc. jumping the gun could’ve screwed everyone over as Tesla doesn’t need to move so aggressively on opening the network to all, CCS or charger upgrades to get funding from the government. The two largest car companies in the US just gave them a tonne of customer revenue with Tesla having to not spend a single dime and possibly not even needing government funding. Well played Elon, well played……