Gravity PPF Installation

[hmp10]

I hadn't seen anything at all about this before but at the grand opening of the San Diego service center they had someone from Ceramic Pro onsite and said that Lucid is partnering with them nationwide now for PPF/tint/ceramic coating and that it'll be offered from the Lucid site to have it done before taking delivery of new vehicles.

Partnerships

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ceramicpro.com

I think Ceramic Pro is an installer franchise that doesn't produce its own PPF. Any idea who makes the PPF that will be used on the Lucids? All the Naples Ceramic Pro website says is that they use "the best" film on the market.

 

[borski]

I think Ceramic Pro is an installer franchise that doesn't produce its own PPF. Any idea who makes the PPF that will be used on the Lucids? All the Naples Ceramic Pro website says is that they use "the best" film on the market.

NanoShine Ltd. develops and produces both the Ceramic Pro coatings and the Kavaca line of paint protection films (PPF); it’s the parent company of both.

 

[hmp10]

NanoShine Ltd. develops and produces both the Ceramic Pro coatings and the Kavaca line of paint protection films (PPF); it’s the parent company of both.

Interesting. I had never heard of Kavaca film until it came up here. Doing a little quick internet digging, it appears to be similar to Xpel's Ultimate Fusion line, in that they both are one of the few films that have an "infused" ceramic coating (still not sure exactly what that means).

However, Kavaca has a 12-year limited warranty compared to Xpel's 10 years. And Kavaca self-healing property is reported not to require heat activation as Xpel's does.

I don't know how cost compares, as one installer who uses both said it costs a bit more than Xpel. However, that installer compared Kavaca to Xpel Ultimate Plus, failing to mention that it actually aligns in features ("infused" ceramic) with Xpel's more expensive Ultimate Fusion.

In any case, at least in terms of film quality, Lucid appears to have partnered with a good outfit for PPF. Of course, among the top-tier films, the quality of the final result is going to depend more on the installer's capability than the film itself. And that's going to vary by installer, no matter what they say about training across the franchise.

I found there is a Ceramic Pro shop in Naples, and it looks to be a pretty sophisticated operation. The weird thing, though, is that they nowhere identify the brand of any of the films they use for the various applications. It makes me wonder if they might sometimes switch suppliers based on the terms they can negotiate with those suppliers?

 

[RandomDesign]

I found there is a Ceramic Pro shop in Naples, and it looks to be a pretty sophisticated operation. The weird thing, though, is that they nowhere identify the brand of any of the films they use for the various applications. It makes me wonder if they might sometimes switch suppliers based on the terms they can negotiate with those suppliers?

When I spoke to the guy who owns the local shop at the opening yesterday he did say they use their own brand of films (and I got a goodie bag from them with some cleaning products that included stickers for Kavaca and Ceramic Pro that I hadn't looked in until this morning).

I got a discount coupon from them so I'll definitely be looking at getting a price quote for their film when my Gravity is closer to delivery. My current estimate remains "hopefully before the end of the year".

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

A 12-year guarantee is not worth it unless the company will be around in 12 years. While I don’t love XPel, I’d still use them as they’ve been around a long time and I’ve seen them stand behind their product.

I know nothing about Kavaca, so maybe they’re well capitalized and established. I’d have to check.

 

[RandomDesign]

A 12-year guarantee is not worth it unless the company will be around in 12 years. While I don’t love XPel, I’d still use them as they’ve been around a long time and I’ve seen them stand behind their product.

I know nothing about Kavaca, so maybe they’re well capitalized and established. I’d have to check.

They definitely haven't been around as long as XPel, Ceramic Pro has been around since 2010 and they started making the Kavaca PPF in 2019.

They do seem to have good reviews and, in particular, good reviews from people who do PPF installation. I'll definitely be at least getting a quote from them.

I'm really interested in how it's going to integrate on the Lucid site too, I wonder when that will be coming.

 

[TahoeMichael]

ISeeCars published an analysis of how vehicle color affects the price of a 3 year old vehicle:

The Best and Worst Car Colors for Resale Value

They break their data down by specific vehicle segments. If you think the Gravity is an SUV, then an orange PPF film would have the lowest 3-year depreciation. But if you think it's a minivan, then green does the best. Since the study doesn't have a category for station wagons , I think it's an SUV. As such, Color: Racing Orange (Pearl) is my color choice:

Although I'm not sure I would put the PPF on the stealth upper section.

 

[hmp10]

ISeeCars published an analysis of how vehicle color affects the price of a 3 year old vehicle:

The Best and Worst Car Colors for Resale Value

They break their data down by specific vehicle segments. If you think the Gravity is an SUV, then an orange PPF film would have the lowest 3-year depreciation. But if you think it's a minivan, then green does the best. Since the study doesn't have a category for station wagons , I think it's an SUV. As such, Color: Racing Orange (Pearl) is my color choice:

Wouldn't wanna mix it with the Tahoe interior, though. Ouch.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Out of curiosity, I called up the Ceramic Pro guys, and got a quick education that might be useful for other people who don't know anything about the topic.

First, PPF and color wraps are completely different things, and a color wrap doesn't really provide PPF. In fact, the Ceramic Pro installer told me that the clear PPF film has a 9 year warranty, but he'd expect a color wrap to get thrashed by the climate here in Lake Tahoe within a year.

In spite of the Lucid partnership announcement, he'd never actually heard of the Gravity, and has to do some research to find out to give me a precise quote. But his ballpark estimate was ~$3K for a front side PPF, another ~$2K for a ceramic coating (with an expected $400/year refresh on the ceramic coat), a bit of a discount if I PPF + ceramic together. A color wrap would be expected to be ~$10K. These prices are from a Reno NV Ceramic Pro installer, so I assume more expensive cities could have higher prices.

I'm actually having trouble wrapping my head around why someone would spend $10K for a color wrap that might look pretty bad after a year. Maybe a different climate and more careful garaging gives a much longer lifespan?

 

[RandomDesign]

Out of curiosity, I called up the Ceramic Pro guys, and got a quick education that might be useful for other people who don't know anything about the topic.

First, PPF and color wraps are completely different things, and a color wrap doesn't really provide PPF. In fact, the Ceramic Pro installer told me that the clear PPF film has a 9 year warranty, but he'd expect a color wrap to get thrashed by the climate here in Lake Tahoe within a year.

In spite of the Lucid partnership announcement, he'd never actually heard of the Gravity, and has to do some research to find out to give me a precise quote. But his ballpark estimate was ~$3K for a front side PPF, another ~$2K for a ceramic coating (with an expected $400/year refresh on the ceramic coat), a bit of a discount if I PPF + ceramic together. A color wrap would be expected to be ~$10K. These prices are from a Reno NV Ceramic Pro installer, so I assume more expensive cities could have higher prices.

I'm actually having trouble wrapping my head around why someone would spend $10K for a color wrap that might look pretty bad after a year. Maybe a different climate and more careful garaging gives a much longer lifespan?

Sounds like you got someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about honestly. The Ceramic Pro site says all of their PPF has a 12 year warranty so not sure where he's getting the 9 year from.

There are indeed a lot of color change wraps that are just vinyl wraps but there are also color change PPF, the Ceramic Pro version is this: https://ceramicpro.com/color-ppf/

The partnership seems very, very new. I guess they first talked about it here because the Ceramic Pro HQ is here in San Diego as well so it's probably something they just signed.

 

[TahoeMichael]

Sounds like you got someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about honestly. The Ceramic Pro site says all of their PPF has a 12 year warranty so not sure where he's getting the 9 year from.

There are indeed a lot of color change wraps that are just vinyl wraps but there are also color change PPF, the Ceramic Pro version is this: https://ceramicpro.com/color-ppf/

The partnership seems very, very new. I guess they first talked about it here because the Ceramic Pro HQ is here in San Diego as well so it's probably something they just signed.

Probably the shop I talked to is a generic installer that deals with multiple PPF manufacturers, and maybe they don't actually do a lot of Ceramic Pro, and thus don't know much about that specific product line.

 

[borski]

Out of curiosity, I called up the Ceramic Pro guys, and got a quick education that might be useful for other people who don't know anything about the topic.

First, PPF and color wraps are completely different things, and a color wrap doesn't really provide PPF. In fact, the Ceramic Pro installer told me that the clear PPF film has a 9 year warranty, but he'd expect a color wrap to get thrashed by the climate here in Lake Tahoe within a year.

In spite of the Lucid partnership announcement, he'd never actually heard of the Gravity, and has to do some research to find out to give me a precise quote. But his ballpark estimate was ~$3K for a front side PPF, another ~$2K for a ceramic coating (with an expected $400/year refresh on the ceramic coat), a bit of a discount if I PPF + ceramic together. A color wrap would be expected to be ~$10K. These prices are from a Reno NV Ceramic Pro installer, so I assume more expensive cities could have higher prices.

I'm actually having trouble wrapping my head around why someone would spend $10K for a color wrap that might look pretty bad after a year. Maybe a different climate and more careful garaging gives a much longer lifespan?

Most color wraps are vinyl. Those will tear after 1-3 years, and don’t provide any real protection. They are not $10k.

PPF used to be clear only, but now they have tons of options; color, metallic, etc. Our PPF on the Gravity is clear with metallic flake impregnated, making it look like it’s color shifting. PPF averages about $7k-12k. Someone charging you less than that is either going to cut corners, cut your car (literally, with a razor blade), or not do a paint correction or anything else.

Ceramic is separate. If you apply ceramic on top of PPF it makes it slicker and everything just slides off. Some PPF has ceramic impregnated too - this is not the same thing no matter what the manufacturer tells you. It is better than no ceramic, but not as good as a real ceramic coating.

Ceramic can also be applied to the actual car rather than PPF; in that case, it doesn’t provide scratch protection but it does make it slicker and easier to clean. Bird poop just wipes or rinses off, for example.

Ceramic is typically much, much cheaper than PPF, and most PPF shops will throw it in “for free”

 

[hmp10]

Most color wraps are vinyl. Those will tear after 1-3 years, and don’t provide any real protection. They are not $10k.

PPF used to be clear only, but now they have tons of options; color, metallic, etc. Our PPF on the Gravity is clear with metallic flake impregnated, making it look like it’s color shifting. PPF averages about $7k-12k. Someone charging you less than that is either going to cut corners, cut your car (literally, with a razor blade), or not do a paint correction or anything else.

Ceramic is separate. If you apply ceramic on top of PPF it makes it slicker and everything just slides off. Some PPF has ceramic impregnated too - this is not the same thing no matter what the manufacturer tells you. It is better than no ceramic, but not as good as a real ceramic coating.

Ceramic can also be applied to the actual car rather than PPF; in that case, it doesn’t provide scratch protection but it does make it slicker and easier to clean. Bird poop just wipes or rinses off, for example.

Ceramic is typically much, much cheaper than PPF, and most PPF shops will throw it in “for free”

I have used ceramic on a few cars before I first used PPF on our Air, typically spending around $3,000 for a "professional" Opt-Coat application. To maintain its warranty you are required to spend several hundred dollars a year for a "refresh", such as the $400 one @TahoeMichael was told about. Also, putting a ceramic-coated car through an automatic carwash voids its warranty. In short, it holds up hardly better than a beeswax job of yesteryear.

I have found that applying your own "ceramic coating" of Turtle Wax Ceramic Spray for a few dollars every couple of months provides amazing hydrophobicity. You just spray on a fine mist, wipe it off, and then promptly buff it off with almost no effort. The first time our black Gravity went through a rain after applying the Turtle Wax spray, I could hardly believe how the car showed no signs of it the next day. (That car also has Xpel's "ceramic infused" Ultimate Fusion PPF on it for chip protection, but the Turtle Wax still increases the hydrophobicity noticeably.)

 

[TahoeMichael]

Most color wraps are vinyl. Those will tear after 1-3 years, and don’t provide any real protection. They are not $10k.

PPF used to be clear only, but now they have tons of options; color, metallic, etc. Our PPF on the Gravity is clear with metallic flake impregnated, making it look like it’s color shifting. PPF averages about $7k-12k. Someone charging you less than that is either going to cut corners, cut your car (literally, with a razor blade), or not do a paint correction or anything else.

Ceramic is separate. If you apply ceramic on top of PPF it makes it slicker and everything just slides off. Some PPF has ceramic impregnated too - this is not the same thing no matter what the manufacturer tells you. It is better than no ceramic, but not as good as a real ceramic coating.

Ceramic can also be applied to the actual car rather than PPF; in that case, it doesn’t provide scratch protection but it does make it slicker and easier to clean. Bird poop just wipes or rinses off, for example.

Ceramic is typically much, much cheaper than PPF, and most PPF shops will throw it in “for free”

Thanks, that's very informative. This is all new for me.

I'm wondering what the group thinks about the virtue of a "front bra" PPF application, versus a whole vehicle application? Worth the cost to have the whole vehicle done?

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Thanks, that's very informative. This is all new for me.

I'm wondering what the group thinks about the virtue of a "front bra" PPF application, versus a whole vehicle application? Worth the cost to have the whole vehicle done?

Totally personal preference. I’ve done it with front and hood, along with back and rockers. Those are the key areas (for me). Much cheaper and most chips, for me, have been on front or rockets. That’s if you’re focused on protection and not also ease of cleaning.

I’ve also done entire car, which was more about the look and ease of keeping clean (for me). Folks like doing doors because they frequently get dinged/dented in parking lots. Again, personally, I’ve not found as much protection value from getting doors done - but it’s all based on experience.

Also, depends on where you live and environment. For example, I believe @hmp10 lives near a Sarlacc pit and wraps his car 100% to protect from sand, etc.

 

[hmp10]

Also, depends on where you live and environment. For example, I believe @hmp10 lives near a Sarlacc pit and wraps his car 100% to protect from sand, etc.

True. And having the doors wrapped saved our green Gravity from having to have a door repainted when a semi truck threw a cube of wood against it on I-75. The film was torn and the door was dented, but the paint damage was minimal enough -- thanks to the film -- that a touch-up pen was sufficient along with the dent being worked out by a "dent doctor". I really hate having to get any parts of a car repainted as I'm never sure of the match both initially and over time.

 

[borski]

Thanks, that's very informative. This is all new for me.

I'm wondering what the group thinks about the virtue of a "front bra" PPF application, versus a whole vehicle application? Worth the cost to have the whole vehicle done?

It would look weird to have only the front half of the car look like a sparkly unicorn

(but yes, front is fine, whole car is obviously better; it depends on what you value. keeping the car a decade? go full. keeping it for 2 years? maybe don't ppf it at all)

 

[scal_air]

It would look weird to have only the front half of the car look like a sparkly unicorn

(but yes, front is fine, whole car is obviously better; it depends on what you value. keeping the car a decade? go full. keeping it for 2 years? maybe don't ppf it at all)

Yeah I vote whole car if you plan to keep it.
Applying an easy "hybrid ceramic" (I am partial to 303 Products Graphene Nano Spray Coating every 6-8 months) on top of the PPF makes it easier to clean and more hydrophobic. But since I like to hand wash my car, I'll also use Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Wax that you spray on after washing and just rinse off before drying.

 

[niceInBoston]

Just curious, has anyone owned a ppf'ed car long enough where they had to replace it or remove it? (That said, I owned 10+ year old cars, but never for 10 consecutive years or more myself.)

I guess I'm wondering whether a 10 year warranty on ppf means it could potentially last even longer if you're lucky, and/or not too picky... perhaps 15-20 years.

 

[EVCar]

Just curious, has anyone owned a ppf'ed car long enough where they had to replace it or remove it? (That said, I owned 10+ year old cars, but never for 10 consecutive years or more myself.)

My 13-year old Home Depot hauling car's PPF is still holding up.