Gravity 75 mph Range

[hwy17er]

If you live in California, you might not care so much about the actual range as there are plenty of HVDC charger around. Such is not the case elsewhere.

Fair point; hopefully that'll be changing in the near future. I guess I meant who really drives their vehicle 'til the battery is 0%...or even below 10-15% SoC? Leaseholders??

 

[Pragmatic]

Owner here, if I can make my destination without stopping I will. Driving without a charging stop means I'll arrive with less than 5% on my longer trips.

 

[dbsb3233]

I agree...who cares about the theoretical max range of a vehicle's battery pack...rather see hard data from 80%-->20% range (or 85-> 15% or whatever) for a more real world owner comparison standard test

Well, sure, but that's just a simple calculation. If you wanna know the 20-80% number, just multiply the full 0-100% number by 60%.

Others may want the 10-80% number. Or the 10-100%. Or the 20-100%. Or the 10-90%. That's just simple math once you know the full 0-100% baseline.

 

[borski]

There is a thing called regulatory capture. No idea if that is occurring in this situation. But it does happen, and Tesla certainly had a lot of influence in this topic...

Sure, but that's not exactly relevant here; even if that is the case, you could hardly blame Lucid for following the rules the EPA defines.

Fair enough, "fudge the numbers" isn't the right description. But I do think EV manufacturers are aware that they've picked the EPA process that gives them the largest possible range to publicize, and that publishing such a number is going to lead to more questions about why "real world" range tests don't measure up versus other manufacturers which publish more conservative ranges.

Agreed; they would obviously use the test that gave them the higher number, and that is obviously why Lucid (and Tesla and others) pay the extra costs to run the 5-cycle test.

I wonder,

• I presume Lucid has done the 2 cycle test (as other manufacturers have done) on its vehicles as well. If so, what are those results?

Undisclosed.

• If the 2-cycle range results are better than the 5-cycle test results, would Lucid still stick with the 5-cycle test results? Wouldn't Lucid tout the 2-cycle test results instead?

They aren't. 5-cycle results are nearly always larger than 2-cycle results, due to how the test is designed. It was originally designed due to complaints that the 2-cycle test underreported real-world range.

• To my understanding, the 5-cycle test allows the manufacturer to input "coefficients"/"fudge factors". I wonder whether this practice is being mis-used.

As defined by the EPA within a range; iirc, both Lucid and Tesla use the same one, but I don't feel like looking it up. This is done to lower the range, not increase it.

In short, I think real-life highway driving (70-80 mph) results on the Lucid Air/ Gravity are going to be short (20-25%) of their advertised claims based on their 5-cycle EPA numbers.

I agree, unless you're driving in perfect conditions.

Again, I think Lucid Air/Gravity has decent range. But the advertised range metrics (516mi for the Air, 445mi for the Gravity, wheel size dependent) are unrealistic! The competition is much closer than you think!

No, they aren't. Driven the same exact way on the same exact route at the same exact time, Lucid will always go further than the competition that exists today. Even if a competitor exceeds their estimate, those estimates still fall short of Lucid's.

But also, it doesn't matter, imho, as I cannot drive that long without me or my wife needing to pee.

 

[Elfin]

Fair point; hopefully that'll be changing in the near future. I guess I meant who really drives their vehicle 'til the battery is 0%...or even below 10-15% SoC? Leaseholders??

I do on road trips. By far the biggest reason batteries degrade is calendar aging. Minimize the amount of time the battery spends above 55% and it will last a long time.

No, they aren't. Driven the same exact way on the same exact route at the same exact time, Lucid will always go further than the competition that exists today. Even if a competitor exceeds their estimate, those estimates still fall short of Lucid's.

The EQS SUV and the Rivian R1S Dual Max have slightly more range (in thinner Colorado air, really need them all side by side.) The Escalade IQ has much more range.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

The EQS SUV and the Rivian R1S Dual Max have slightly more range (in thinner Colorado air, really need them all side by side.) The Escalade IQ has much more range.

Ok. So if range is the priority, one of those should be one’s choice. The IQ supposedly has awful driving dynamics, for example. It also has a massive battery so it’s inefficient to get the range. No idea about the MB, but have read driving is “uninspired” in MB EV.

For me, and I think many folks here, Gravity is the best mix of range, driving dynamics and tech (when it works, I know about bugs…).

 

[9point81]

Ok. So if range is the priority, one of those should be one’s choice. The IQ supposedly has awful driving dynamics, for example. It also has a massive battery so it’s inefficient to get the range. No idea about the MB, but have read driving is “uninspired” in MB EV.

For me, and I think many folks here, Gravity is the best mix of range, driving dynamics and tech (when it works, I know about bugs…).

Not to mention I've talked to IQ owners, in addition to it having its own woes and problems, to get to 80% from 20% or less takes about 50+ minutes and about $100. No thanks!

 

[Knucklehead]

This was kind of my point. Running the car from 100% to 0% at 75mph doesn’t actually tell me anything. Not especially realistic. But that’s okay as I don’t need the information and it appears others find it valuable.

I find a 75 mph test benchmark to be more useful than the EPA rating.

Highway range is the most important range for most people IMO because that is when you more likely traveling out of range of home charging. Every modern BEV can handle 10 mile commutes with nightly charging. But if I want to visit my sister who lives 200 miles away, I would like to know if the vehicle I plan to purchase can do that drive without stopping.

The 75 mph range test helps me understand which vehicles can make it, and which can't. At least it provides a way to compare different models instead of just relying on the EPA range figure, which is almost useless for estimating highway range.

I was hoping the Gravity would do better at 75 than the typical hit BEVs take when compared to the EPA test. It is possible people will get better results as the tires wear and especially next year when it warms up again.

I think the biggest disappointment is available battery capacity. 117 kWh is lower than I thought it would be. It is too bad all 121 kWh isn't available. Well, maybe it is if you drive below 0%. I would not be comfortable doing that myself. I am comfortable arriving at home close to 0%, but not below.

 

[dbsb3233]

Makes total sense to me as I have been through the southeast. It’s just tough to understand what folks here are expecting. Like, what would “good” be for a 75mph test with no elevation, ideal conditions, etc? 15% range loss? I just don’t know, so that’s why I am asking.

I was, admittedly, stunned, to be able to go 68mph for most of a whole trip and get better than rated range.

I'd say given Lucid's reputation for range and aerodynamics, I was expecting something around a 10% loss at 70 MPH. (Although "hoping" is probably the better word.) On the 450 trim, that would be around 405 miles (or 3.46 MPK if we assume a 117 kWh 0-100% usable battery). In good conditions, of course.

15% wouldn't be too bad (382 miles, or 3.27 MPK).

20% would be somewhat disappointing to me (360 miles, or 3.08 MPK).

Again, all in the context of a car marketed at 450 that I'll be paying $109K for, which is way more than I would normally be willing to spend. But we road trip so much that super range (making road trips nearly ICE-like) was worth it to us. Doesn't mean I won't still decide to buy it if it proves to be -22% (like Tom's 352 number), but it is harder to justify when it's just "good" range" rather than "super" range. There's a lot of other great things about the car, and even 352 is good for that size car... IF you ignore the advertised 450.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

Folks keep saying “Lucid’s reputation for efficiency…” but is that marketing or real? Those who have the Air have noted it, too, doesn’t hit EPA numbers and has about a 15-20% hit. Is that right?

What I am asking is Gravity efficiency THAT disappointing or is it in line with Air? I think it’s the latter, but don’t know…

 

[dbsb3233]

Folks keep saying “Lucid’s reputation for efficiency…” but is that marketing or real? Those who have the Air have noted it, too, doesn’t hit EPA numbers and has about a 15-20% hit. Is that right?

What I am asking is Gravity efficiency THAT disappointing or is it in line with Air? I think it’s the latter, but don’t know…

Honestly, I haven't followed the Air enough to know. I did watch a few videos when it first came out, and I remember one where they did do a single highway drive over 500 miles. That set the reputation for me. But then I kinda stopped paying attention until the Gravity came out (I don't like sedans). You're right, I've seen others say they get way less, so maybe that video I saw was a one-off?

 

[Elfin]

Folks keep saying “Lucid’s reputation for efficiency…” but is that marketing or real? Those who have the Air have noted it, too, doesn’t hit EPA numbers and has about a 15-20% hit. Is that right?

What I am asking is Gravity efficiency THAT disappointing or is it in line with Air? I think it’s the latter, but don’t know…

The Air is the most efficient large sedan. The Touring would likely be close to the RWD Model 3.

It's interesting that the Model X is only 10% less efficient in OoS 70mph range test than the Model S. The problem with these tests is that wind and weather can make big difference.

 

[Elfin]

You're right, I've seen others say they get way less, so maybe that video I saw was a one-off?

The thing to keep in mind about the Out of Spec videos is they drive until the car stops moving and they're done at 5000ft elevation where the air is thinner.

 

[Ron_Burgundy]

The Air is the most efficient large sedan. The Touring would likely be close to the RWD Model 3

Based on OOS? Again, I don’t think there’s a real control in those tests. Tons of variables. I’d be more interested to understand what Air owners actually are getting. I highly doubt it is 4.3. But again, I don’t know. I, too, am not a sedan person so didn’t follow the Air. I did drive an AGT loaner for a bit and came nowhere close to 4.3. Not even in the 4’s over a 10 day period. If I remember, it was around 3.5 or so.

 

[dbsb3233]

What I would be curious to see from Gavity owners are a few more data points on usable 0-100% kWh, to confirm if 117 is the right number. Doesn't need to be a full 0-100% fill, we can just extrapolate. So for instance when you charge, how many kWh did it add and what % did it go to and from?

It can be a little hard to tell because chargers usually show how many kWh the charger delivered, not how much the car received (there's a loss factor in the transfer). But it's still helpful data.

 

[Spaceiscoolright]

Owner here, if I can make my destination without stopping I will. Driving without a charging stop means I'll arrive with less than 5% on my longer trips.

Any chance you could elaborate for us please? Haha

 

[dbsb3233]

The thing to keep in mind about the Out of Spec videos is they drive until the car stops moving and they're done at 5000ft elevation where the air is thinner.

That actually works well for me (the elevation part) since Kyle just lives 30 miles north of me.

But yeah, I've seen conflicting info on how much impact the thinner air really has. I've seen some reports that it's significant, others that it's insignificant.

 

[Elfin]

Based on OOS? Again, I don’t think there’s a real control in those tests. Tons of variables. I’d be more interested to understand what Air owners actually are getting. I highly doubt it is 4.3. But again, I don’t know. I, too, am not a sedan person so didn’t follow the Air. I did drive an AGT loaner for a bit and came nowhere close to 4.3. Not even in the 4’s over a 10 day period. If I remember, it was around 3.5 or so.

How many Air owners set the cruise control for 70mph on straight flat Interstate?
Internet says 18% less drag in Denver, that is a huge difference.

 

[hmp10]

Play with any variables you want, and every range/speed chart ends up looking pretty much like this one:

At higher speeds, aerodynamic drag tops every other factor in terms of reducing range. And it's a range killer any way you cut it on a road trip.

The same thing happens with ICE vehicles. You just don't care as much because there is a gas station at almost every exit.

 

[Pragmatic]

As a data point on mostly highway trips my Air Pure AWD averages ~3.8 summer, 3.6 winter and 4.1 spring and fall. Trips are ~300 miles at 73 (cruise set at 75).