Enthusiast Canceling after the Launch event - in Depth Reasons/discrepancies noted

[Drendino]

What I have proposed, and still do, is that Lucid should charge a reasonable fee for the unactivated hardware. Then charge a subscription (or one time fee) for the actual usage. That way, Lucid is protected on the cost of the hardware and we as customers are protected from a Tesla Like non existent feature set.

I agree with this. It’s a like how Tesla does it and not everything that Tesla does is bad.

 

[stratus]

I don't know if I'm being over sensitive or not. I feel like there is a lack of mutual understanding between GT/DE folks and Touring/Pure folks.

Maybe there is frustration from the constant flow of negativity that has been perpetuated lately. For many of us who own the car, we really enjoy it and sincerely believe that its main strength is its wonderful driving dynamics. Of course, tech is great, but in my opinion , that pales in comparison to how well it drives and how much fun it is to drive.
People really need to give Lucid a bit of a break on some things. Yes, they have improvements to make and communication can be frustrating , but many of us have no idea how challenging the current environment is.
Constructive criticism is wonderful. Constant social media threats of “I’m canceling my reservation “ are a tad infantile.

 

[RM-S8]

Just remember OP's original
title post :
Enthusiast Canceling after the Launch event".
Is he really an enthusiast?

 

[C28]

Just remember OP's original
title post :
Enthusiast Canceling after the Launch event".
Is he really an enthusiast?

Yes, I am. Tracked my Porsches etc. Read auto magazines monthly etc.

 

[C28]

Also one of these questions was answered in the Reddit AMA from Derrick Jenkins. The RWD Pure has less than 480 horsepower, and is slower than 3.8second 0-60mph. Nice to see they are taking feedback and questions & answer. He did leave the (many) questions on Highway Assist in Dream Drive non-Pro unanswered, but I appreciate he did answer the RWD Pure aspect.

 

[Psymac]

I agree 100% with this, though I haven't seen the study. I and my wife are in this age bracket (30's), both tech employees, and see it exactly this way regarding highway assist level 2 autonomy as important in our demographic, though it's just anecdotal to our social group I suppose, I didn't see the study you reference. Same as when we rent a car and it doesn't have CarPlay, people are annoyed.

BMW, Mercedes, etc build brands on getting people in on lower models then upselling over years, decades. Offering features like Level 2 Highway assist on Dream Drive Standard helps capture more of this 'millennial' demographic to upsell later on. For example I only selected the Touring/Pure because of the tech/software maturity stage of the Air (per your comments on Dream Drive Pro Level 3 being some years away) not because I could't afford the higher end models or the $10K up charge for DDP.

Any yes, I have driven multiple Lucid's, both Dream Performance & AGT. It is an amazing drivers car. I hope they fix this DD vs DDP and Highway Assist L2 issue soon without forcing a $10K upcharge on people for features standard in a Hyundai/Ford, as I fear it will cause them a-lot of cancellations or brand followership among a certain demographic as @invalidname notes. I really want to see an American Startup EV company succeed, and own no Lucid stock, so this post is not a pump/dump/short stock motivated one.

Agree, my Ioniq 5 has essentially DDP as standard and great Level 2 autonomy:
Lane Keeping Assist (LKA), Lane Following Assist (LFA), Intelligent Speed Limit Assist, Driver Attention Warning (DAW), Highway Driving Assist II (HDA II), Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Stop & Go, Navigation-based Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Curve Control, Remote Smart Park Assist (RSPA), Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA), Surround View Monitor (SVM), Blind-Spot View Monitor (in dash BVM), Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (RCCA), Parking Distance Warning, Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist with Car/Ped/Cyclist Detection and Junction Turning.

 

[joec]

Maybe there is frustration from the constant flow of negativity that has been perpetuated lately. For many of us who own the car, we really enjoy it and sincerely believe that its main strength is its wonderful driving dynamics. Of course, tech is great, but in my opinion , that pales in comparison to how well it drives and how much fun it is to drive.
People really need to give Lucid a bit of a break on some things. Yes, they have improvements to make and communication can be frustrating , but many of us have no idea how challenging the current environment is.
Constructive criticism is wonderful. Constant social media threats of “I’m canceling my reservation “ are a tad infantile.

The thing to keep in mind is GT/DE customers are different from Pure customers. They are going to have a hard time with people hemming and hawing over $9k for Dream Drive Pro, because they spent that and way more on their cars. They clearly see spending extra to get more as a no-brainer.

They also have their cars. So they can forget all the nitpicks every time they get behind the wheel.

Pure customers are by definition a bit more cost conscious. Which is fine. But if you don't want to spend extra money on features that aren't worth it to you, then just don't spend it. A GT customer isn't going to have trouble understanding that decision. But they absolutely will take issue with the constant complaining about it.

You're asking people who have already bought the more expensive thing to agree with you that you should get that expensive thing for free. Now, that's a tough sell.

This is perhaps a bit of an unfair generalization, but a good number of folks here seem to want Lucid to hand them all the features of DDPro just because. As if it makes no difference to Lucid's bottom line whatsoever to give away free hardware and software. Or they feel that because Lucid listed a feature or stat under Pure on the web site, that this means that stat automatically applies to ALL Pures, rather than just fully loaded ones. Tons of talk about what was "promised" going on, but a lot of these promises boil down to wishful thinking. (And a small dose of poor communication on Lucid's part, I will gladly admit.)

But other than a $300 deposit, you've given Lucid nothing at this point, so they don't owe you anything. Take your $300 back and move on if you like.

Lucid has put a value on their product. You don't have to agree with the value. But insisting they have to change their value proposition to make you happy just seems—well—silly to the many of us who have already had their cars delivered or soon will. We clearly disagree, or we would not have already spent the money you seem unwilling to spend.

We don't care that companies x, y, and z offer some version of those features or what they do or don't charge. We don't want to hear about your Honda or Toyota. Either you agree the Air is worth it, or you don't.

Lucid will see the results of these decisions and adjust their strategy accordingly. Someday they may create a version of the 360 cam that can work with the fewer cameras offered with non DDPro cars. They may offer a less robust version of Highway Assist that doesn't rely on LiDAR. But they haven't yet. So they can't offer that yet. Right now they are concentrating on making the best possible versions of these features for the customers who are paying extra for the Pro hardware. The benefits of those features will eventually begin to make their way down to lower trims, as they always do.

Meanwhile, it seems like a pretty simple choice. Buy or don't. We've had several members here who at the end of the day said "You know what, I'm going with the Ionic 5, or the Genesis EV60, or the i7." Or whatever other car they felt was better for them and their family. And no one here has ever taken issue with that.

Many of us Touring customers have lamented the lack of massage seats as an option on Touring. I think Lucid could make a good bit of extra money if they offered that. But you don't see entire threads here filled with Touring customers emphatically stating "EVEN MY VW RABBIT HAD MASSAGE SEATS! LUCID IS CRAZY NOT TO JUST GIVE THEM TO ME. HOW COULD A $100K CAR NOT HAVE MASSAGE SEATS!"

I could have upgraded to a GT for those massage seats. I chose not to. No rant necessary.

So while many of us here are understanding of some feeling of let down after the specs on the Pure were finally released, I think it's fair to say at a certain point, it's hard to remain empathetic when it's the same argument being made over and over again. Might be the first time you are making it, but believe me, it's not the first time we are hearing it.

People come here for lots of reasons. Listening to others rant and rave is definitely not at the top of my list. I've got Twitter for that.

 

[Dortreo]

People come here for lots of reasons. Listening to others rant and rave is definitely not at the top of my list. I've got Twitter for that.

Not for long… #riptwitter

Great response, @joec. Well written!

 

[Tesla2.0]

I agree 100% with this, though I haven't seen the study. I and my wife are in this age bracket (30's), both tech employees, and see it exactly this way regarding highway assist level 2 autonomy as important in our demographic, though it's just anecdotal to our social group I suppose, I didn't see the study you reference. Same as when we rent a car and it doesn't have CarPlay, people are annoyed.

BMW, Mercedes, etc build brands on getting people in on lower models then upselling over years, decades. Offering features like Level 2 Highway assist on Dream Drive Standard helps capture more of this 'millennial' demographic to upsell later on. For example I only selected the Touring/Pure because of the tech/software maturity stage of the Air (per your comments on Dream Drive Pro Level 3 being some years away) not because I could't afford the higher end models or the $10K up charge for DDP.

Any yes, I have driven multiple Lucid's, both Dream Performance & AGT. It is an amazing drivers car. I hope they fix this DD vs DDP and Highway Assist L2 issue soon without forcing a $10K upcharge on people for features standard in a Hyundai/Ford, as I fear it will cause them a-lot of cancellations or brand followership among a certain demographic as @invalidname notes. I really want to see an American Startup EV company succeed, and own no Lucid stock, so this post is not a pump/dump/short stock motivated one.

You don’t have to buy something you cannot justify its value. No one put a gun in your head to do so.

Agree, my Ioniq 5 has essentially DDP as standard and great Level 2 autonomy:
Lane Keeping Assist (LKA), Lane Following Assist (LFA), Intelligent Speed Limit Assist, Driver Attention Warning (DAW), Highway Driving Assist II (HDA II), Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Stop & Go, Navigation-based Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Curve Control, Remote Smart Park Assist (RSPA), Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA), Surround View Monitor (SVM), Blind-Spot View Monitor (in dash BVM), Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (RCCA), Parking Distance Warning, Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist with Car/Ped/Cyclist Detection and Junction Turning.

I think I’m going to Gucci store bringing a Michael Kor lady handbag. “Look, Gucci salesman! Michael Kor has extra pockets, extra zippers, extra locks and comes with real cowhide. You either drop the price or give me extra pockets or I’m going to atrium of mall to shout to everyone!”

Maybe Gucci will give me a break on the spot replace their vegan leather to my preferred real leather if everyone in the mall heard me. Mission accomplished!

 

[Drendino]

Agree, my Ioniq 5 has essentially DDP as standard and great Level 2 autonomy:
Lane Keeping Assist (LKA), Lane Following Assist (LFA), Intelligent Speed Limit Assist, Driver Attention Warning (DAW), Highway Driving Assist II (HDA II), Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Stop & Go, Navigation-based Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Curve Control, Remote Smart Park Assist (RSPA), Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA), Surround View Monitor (SVM), Blind-Spot View Monitor (in dash BVM), Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (RCCA), Parking Distance Warning, Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist with Car/Ped/Cyclist Detection and Junction Turning.

Yeah, but with all that software, it’s still an Ionic 5 and will never drive or feel anything like a Lucid.

I understand why people feel let down, but you can’t buy a pound of meat in the grocery store without feeling an injustice from the price increases. You also can’t go to a restaurant without being surprised by how much smaller the portions were compared to a year ago. I just don’t understand why people think that Lucid is somehow immune from inflation and supply chain constraints, yet literally everything else went up by 30%.

 

[RM-S8]

The thing to keep in mind is GT/DE customers are different from Pure customers. They are going to have a hard time with people hemming and hawing over $9k for Dream Drive Pro, because they spent that and way more on their cars. They clearly see spending extra to get more as a no-brainer.

They also have their cars. So they can forget all the nitpicks every time they get behind the wheel.

Pure customers are by definition a bit more cost conscious. Which is fine. But if you don't want to spend extra money on features that aren't worth it to you, then just don't spend it. A GT customer isn't going to have trouble understanding that decision. But they absolutely will take issue with the constant complaining about it.

You're asking people who have already bought the more expensive thing to agree with you that you should get that expensive thing for free. Now, that's a tough sell.

This is perhaps a bit of an unfair generalization, but a good number of folks here seem to want Lucid to hand them all the features of DDPro just because. As if it makes no difference to Lucid's bottom line whatsoever to give away free hardware and software. Or they feel that because Lucid listed a feature or stat under Pure on the web site, that this means that stat automatically applies to ALL Pures, rather than just fully loaded ones. Tons of talk about what was "promised" going on, but a lot of these promises boil down to wishful thinking. (And a small dose of poor communication on Lucid's part, I will gladly admit.)

But other than a $300 deposit, you've given Lucid nothing at this point, so they don't owe you anything. Take your $300 back and move on if you like.

Lucid has put a value on their product. You don't have to agree with the value. But insisting they have to change their value proposition to make you happy just seems—well—silly to the many of us who have already had their cars delivered or soon will. We clearly disagree, or we would not have already spent the money you seem unwilling to spend.

We don't care that companies x, y, and z offer some version of those features or what they do or don't charge. We don't want to hear about your Honda or Toyota. Either you agree the Air is worth it, or you don't.

Lucid will see the results of these decisions and adjust their strategy accordingly. Someday they may create a version of the 360 cam that can work with the fewer cameras offered with non DDPro cars. They may offer a less robust version of Highway Assist that doesn't rely on LiDAR. But they haven't yet. So they can't offer that yet. Right now they are concentrating on making the best possible versions of these features for the customers who are paying extra for the Pro hardware. The benefits of those features will eventually begin to make their way down to lower trims, as they always do.

Meanwhile, it seems like a pretty simple choice. Buy or don't. We've had several members here who at the end of the day said "You know what, I'm going with the Ionic 5, or the Genesis EV60, or the i7." Or whatever other car they felt was better for them and their family. And no one here has ever taken issue with that.

Many of us Touring customers have lamented the lack of massage seats as an option on Touring. I think Lucid could make a good bit of extra money if they offered that. But you don't see entire threads here filled with Touring customers emphatically stating "EVEN MY VW RABBIT HAD MASSAGE SEATS! LUCID IS CRAZY NOT TO JUST GIVE THEM TO ME. HOW COULD A $100K CAR NOT HAVE MASSAGE SEATS!"

I could have upgraded to a GT for those massage seats. I chose not to. No rant necessary.

So while many of us here are understanding of some feeling of let down after the specs on the Pure were finally released, I think it's fair to say at a certain point, it's hard to remain empathetic when it's the same argument being made over and over again. Might be the first time you are making it, but believe me, it's not the first time we are hearing it.

People come here for lots of reasons. Listening to others rant and rave is definitely not at the top of my list. I've got Twitter for that.

Most excellent post.

 

[SDHacker]

No one has Level 3 Autonomy right now because it's too hard, Tesla will most likely be the first to truly unlock it, but others seem to be way behind. This makes DDP less appealing especially since it is expected to not unlock Level 3 Autonomy for possibly a good long while.

Unfortunately, DDP is required for Highway Assist. People are mainly complaining because Highway Assist is very sought after, not Level 3 Autonomy, especially after Tesla popularizing it with the younger crowd. People are complaining that Lucid is charging $9k-$10k to have access to features like Highway Assist when basically every other competitor charges at most $2k-$4k for the same features, and Tesla charging $6k for comparable features. I honestly think they should reduce the price of DDP, or add an intermediate ADAS option that includes popular features like Highway Assist for half the price of DDP.

Studies show a majority of consumers preferring features like Highway Assist are younger, more techy, and hate to have to fight traffic on their way to work. And a majority of consumers who don't care for features like Highway Assist are older, prefer to feel the car, and are likely retired and have more leisurely time with their vehicles.

Studies also show most new cars are purchased by older consumers, and most used cars nowadays are bought by younger consumers. Because younger consumers prefer features like Highway Assist, this will have a direct affect on the potential resale value of a vehicle with features like Highway Assist vs the same vehicle without features like Highway Assist.

If no one is at L3, what level are robotaxis? Is your statement still true since those would be L4? Honda in Japan has L3 and MB in Germany has L3 under 45 mph. I would argue that FSD on the highway is a L3 system but Elon is smart enough to not certify it. It takes an incredible amount of confidence and fortitude to declare your software as L3 as hands off, eyes off makes the car responsible for bad outcomes and liability falls to the car. I think a few companies are close either just on the highway or streets but who is going to put their necks out first in the USA?

You’ve priced DDP at enhanced autopilot due to its current capabilities but I would argue that it’s more aspirational fitting between that and fsd. In 12/2016, Lucid demonstrated a self driving capability with navigation on empty city streets. I think they switched hardware platforms since and they seem very careful about releasing features. Lucid has never stated an end vision for DDP other than to say they don’t think today’s hardware is capable of going beyond L3. Given where they were in 2016, it wouldn’t be a surprise if they are testing Highway Pilot now (pure speculation on my part).

 

[Neurio]

The thing to keep in mind is GT/DE customers are different from Pure customers. They are going to have a hard time with people hemming and hawing over $9k for Dream Drive Pro, because they spent that and way more on their cars. They clearly see spending extra to get more as a no-brainer.

@joec for president!

In all seriousness, I'll repeat/paraphrase something I've said in the recent past:

Highway Assist is useful, not sure I'll ever use Highway Pilot if it ever comes. Dream Drive Pro would have been worth the upgrade cost to me (if I were to be getting a Touring or Pure) for just the turn signal cameras and 360 surround view. The 360 view especially is car/wheel saving. Totally worth it IMO.

 

[HariK]

@joec for president!

In all seriousness, I'll repeat/paraphrase something I've said in the recent past:

Highway Assist is useful, not sure I'll ever use Highway Pilot if it ever comes. Dream Drive Pro would have been worth the upgrade cost to me (if I were to be getting a Touring or Pure) for just the turn signal cameras and 360 surround view. The 360 view especially is car/wheel saving. Totally worth it IMO.

I decided to get ddp with pure exactly for the turn signal cameras and 360 and view and even ssp for the directional alert. I did not get touring or gt not because of budget but I don't want the glass roof. Super sensitive to any sun light direct or indirect hitting me due to ultra violet sensitivity in just 1hr. I went with awd because I am not comfortable driving on snow without fwd or awd. When my sons come to visit I enjoy the back seat and I like the extra space for my feet. At my age I am comfortable driving up to 550 miles a day if I stop for a 5 to 15 min break every 2.5 hrs on the average 150 to 200 miles at no more than 5mph over the speed limit. No tension looking for a cop . 400 mile range epa and 300 or so actual is 4hrs of driving. Money is not the issue but safety is. Just a different perspective which is a function of age and seeing good friends die before 60 and others who left a lot of money behind for nothing. So why not Touring without glass? I don't need the extra acceleration or leather. No kids to mess up the non leather.

 

[HariK]

Agree, my Ioniq 5 has essentially DDP as standard and great Level 2 autonomy:
Lane Keeping Assist (LKA), Lane Following Assist (LFA), Intelligent Speed Limit Assist, Driver Attention Warning (DAW), Highway Driving Assist II (HDA II), Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Stop & Go, Navigation-based Smart Cruise Control (SCC) with Curve Control, Remote Smart Park Assist (RSPA), Blind-Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (BCA), Surround View Monitor (SVM), Blind-Spot View Monitor (in dash BVM), Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (RCCA), Parking Distance Warning, Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist with Car/Ped/Cyclist Detection and Junction Turning.

I almost bought ioniq 5 limited awd msrp 57k but asking price 64k range 260 miles. Then decided to wait for Fisker Ocean extreme awd 350 miles tow hitch for 71k and all the same adas features plus solar roof and a bigger size for my 2 70lb dogs. Also digital radar. I may get it in July or Aug 23 though.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Downmarket models of any car will have less features. If you want those features you have to upgrade to a more expensive trim. The Pure is the ENTRY model. I think it’s totally bizarre that anyone wouldn’t understand this standardized fact and bail on a car for having to pay extra for a feature. Yeah the added features cost $$. Why shouldn’t they?

 

[Babyrocko1908]

The thing to keep in mind is GT/DE customers are different from Pure customers. They are going to have a hard time with people hemming and hawing over $9k for Dream Drive Pro, because they spent that and way more on their cars. They clearly see spending extra to get more as a no-brainer.

They also have their cars. So they can forget all the nitpicks every time they get behind the wheel.

Pure customers are by definition a bit more cost conscious. Which is fine. But if you don't want to spend extra money on features that aren't worth it to you, then just don't spend it. A GT customer isn't going to have trouble understanding that decision. But they absolutely will take issue with the constant complaining about it.

You're asking people who have already bought the more expensive thing to agree with you that you should get that expensive thing for free. Now, that's a tough sell.

This is perhaps a bit of an unfair generalization, but a good number of folks here seem to want Lucid to hand them all the features of DDPro just because. As if it makes no difference to Lucid's bottom line whatsoever to give away free hardware and software. Or they feel that because Lucid listed a feature or stat under Pure on the web site, that this means that stat automatically applies to ALL Pures, rather than just fully loaded ones. Tons of talk about what was "promised" going on, but a lot of these promises boil down to wishful thinking. (And a small dose of poor communication on Lucid's part, I will gladly admit.)

But other than a $300 deposit, you've given Lucid nothing at this point, so they don't owe you anything. Take your $300 back and move on if you like.

Lucid has put a value on their product. You don't have to agree with the value. But insisting they have to change their value proposition to make you happy just seems—well—silly to the many of us who have already had their cars delivered or soon will. We clearly disagree, or we would not have already spent the money you seem unwilling to spend.

We don't care that companies x, y, and z offer some version of those features or what they do or don't charge. We don't want to hear about your Honda or Toyota. Either you agree the Air is worth it, or you don't.

Lucid will see the results of these decisions and adjust their strategy accordingly. Someday they may create a version of the 360 cam that can work with the fewer cameras offered with non DDPro cars. They may offer a less robust version of Highway Assist that doesn't rely on LiDAR. But they haven't yet. So they can't offer that yet. Right now they are concentrating on making the best possible versions of these features for the customers who are paying extra for the Pro hardware. The benefits of those features will eventually begin to make their way down to lower trims, as they always do.

Meanwhile, it seems like a pretty simple choice. Buy or don't. We've had several members here who at the end of the day said "You know what, I'm going with the Ionic 5, or the Genesis EV60, or the i7." Or whatever other car they felt was better for them and their family. And no one here has ever taken issue with that.

Many of us Touring customers have lamented the lack of massage seats as an option on Touring. I think Lucid could make a good bit of extra money if they offered that. But you don't see entire threads here filled with Touring customers emphatically stating "EVEN MY VW RABBIT HAD MASSAGE SEATS! LUCID IS CRAZY NOT TO JUST GIVE THEM TO ME. HOW COULD A $100K CAR NOT HAVE MASSAGE SEATS!"

I could have upgraded to a GT for those massage seats. I chose not to. No rant necessary.

So while many of us here are understanding of some feeling of let down after the specs on the Pure were finally released, I think it's fair to say at a certain point, it's hard to remain empathetic when it's the same argument being made over and over again. Might be the first time you are making it, but believe me, it's not the first time we are hearing it.

People come here for lots of reasons. Listening to others rant and rave is definitely not at the top of my list. I've got Twitter for that.

Your paragraph on the lack of massage seats is spot on. They'll be missed especially when I'm traveling for work, but yeah, there's no way in hell I would have even considered canceling the car because of not having them.

 

[invalidname]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the productive points of a public forums to provide an environment for members to engage in discussions, share grievances, and provide feedback?

Sure, there may be the occasional consumer who just want to fling dung for the sake of flinging dung, but there are many actual impassioned potential consumers with valid feedback.

Especially in the setting where the majority of orders/reservations are for the volume models (i.e. Air Pure) AND in the setting of a recent decline of reservations as we approach volume model production, it is especially vital to hear out what those volume reservation holders have to say on what affects their decision.

We aren't gathered here to go "LA~LA~LA~, LUCID IS PERFECT, LA~LA~LA~, LUCID DOESN'T NEED FEEDBACK, THEY'LL JUST RESPOND REACTIVELY TO POOR RESULTS INSTEAD OF PROACTIVELY BASED ON CONSIDERING FEEDBACK, LA~LA~LA~." I'm pretty sure the Lucid team would appreciate valuable feedback, especially in areas where solutions are practical, probable, profitable, and that can be implemented promptly. I'd assume that's one of the reasons why they occassionally read through our forums.

There are multiple different approaches that Lucid could take, but based on their executives mutual comments on the direction Lucid intends to take, it seems they intend move down market towards the volume market while continuing to inspire the adoption of sustainable energy by creating advanced technologies and the most captivating luxury electric vehicles centered around the human experience. The purpose of introducing a Pure trim is as a "value proposition for a luxury automobile that offers incredible performance and incredible range" - Peter Rawlinson on CNBC 11/15/22. It seems Lucid intends their Pure models to be more for the masses (albeit undoubtedly still expensive in the Air) unlike Porsche whose sale model does includes an relatively competitive entry point of $87k for a base Taycan, but specifically designed it to be undesirable without tens of thousands of dollars of options added on for most consumers.

I read a lot of comments about if you can't afford it, don't buy it, which is understandable and financially more responsible. I even read a comment that said if you can't do the $9k-$10k DDP, just hire a $35k/yr minimum professional chaffeur (seriously?) But it isn't a question of whether it can be afforded, but rather whether or not the value is appropriate for certain desireable options relative to the market. Because when you're marketing a volume product in a price category with many competitors, consumers in this market are inevitably much more cost conscious and will compare.

IMHO, the productive solution isn't to tell the masses to cancel their reservations and get something else (unless they're literally shitposting), unless you actually wish to see mass cancellations. And the productive solution also isn't to hold Lucid hostage with idea that implementing pro-value solutions would upset the old guard.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the productive points of a public forums to provide an environment for members to engage in discussions, share grievances, and provide feedback?

Sure, there may be the occasional consumer who just want to fling dung for the sake of flinging dung, but there are many actual impassioned potential consumers with valid feedback.

Especially in the setting where the majority of orders/reservations are for the volume models (i.e. Air Pure) AND in the setting of a recent decline of reservations as we approach volume model production, it is especially vital to hear out what those volume reservation holders have to say on what affects their decision.

We aren't gathered here to go "LA~LA~LA~, LUCID IS PERFECT, LA~LA~LA~, LUCID DOESN'T NEED FEEDBACK, THEY'LL JUST RESPOND REACTIVELY TO POOR RESULTS INSTEAD OF PROACTIVELY BASED ON CONSIDERING FEEDBACK, LA~LA~LA~." I'm pretty sure the Lucid team would appreciate valuable feedback, especially in areas where solutions are practical, probable, profitable, and that can be implemented promptly. I'd assume that's one of the reasons why they occassionally read through our forums.

There are multiple different approaches that Lucid could take, but based on their executives mutual comments on the direction Lucid intends to take, it seems they intend move down market towards the volume market while continuing to inspire the adoption of sustainable energy by creating advanced technologies and the most captivating luxury electric vehicles centered around the human experience. The purpose of introducing a Pure trim is as a "value proposition for a luxury automobile that offers incredible performance and incredible range" - Peter Rawlinson on CNBC 11/15/22. It seems Lucid intends their Pure models to be more for the masses (albeit undoubtedly still expensive in the Air) unlike Porsche whose sale model does includes an relatively competitive entry point of $87k for a base Taycan, but specifically designed it to be undesirable without tens of thousands of dollars of options added on for most consumers.

I read a lot of comments about if you can't afford it, don't buy it, which is understandable and financially more responsible. I even read a comment that said if you can't do the $9k-$10k DDP, just hire a $35k/yr minimum professional chaffeur (seriously?) But it isn't a question of whether it can be afforded, but rather whether or not the value is appropriate for certain desireable options relative to the market. Because when you're marketing a volume product in a price category with many competitors, consumers in this market are inevitably much more cost conscious and will compare.

IMHO, the productive solution isn't to tell the masses to cancel their reservations and get something else (unless they're literally shitposting), unless you actually wish to see mass cancellations. And the productive solution also isn't to hold Lucid hostage with idea that implementing pro-value solutions would upset the old guard.

Nobody said Lucid is perfect. Some people are canceling their orders because Lucid does what all other car manufacturers do: make some features costly to drive you up market to a more expensive trim. Sometimes this means that if a deal-breaker feature is too expensive for you, then you buy a different car, which is 100% OK. And it’s also 100% OK to be willing to shell out the extra $ for higher trim or that feature that matters to you. But I don’t see how any of this is Lucid doing anything egregious.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

@joec for president!

In all seriousness, I'll repeat/paraphrase something I've said in the recent past:

Highway Assist is useful, not sure I'll ever use Highway Pilot if it ever comes. Dream Drive Pro would have been worth the upgrade cost to me (if I were to be getting a Touring or Pure) for just the turn signal cameras and 360 surround view. The 360 view especially is car/wheel saving. Totally worth it IMO.

This is the main reason why I went with the upgrade. 360 camera and resale value.