Engineering Explained joining the Lucid Lemon Club

[AZLucidGuy]

We’re sitting at a Buc-ee’s in central Georgia, over 500 miles from home, waiting for an Uber and a tow truck. Stranded for the second time on a road trip in our older Gravity. And again with the same symptoms of a drive unit failure. I may start my own YouTube channel.

Again, sorry to learn of your problems. I again applaud your early pioneering commitment to Gravity by owning DE 067. Personally, I would not have the stomach for jumping in that early on a $120K plus car. I would not purchase a new model from any car manufacturer that early in the build cycle because common sense says it may be trouble. But someone has to, and you did. Thank you again for your pioneering spirit.

I would suggest, like others have, that you try to lemon that extremely early Gravity build.

My Air GT, which was delivered in 5/2022, was probably among the first 1,000 or so made. It has been as close to flawless as possible now with 65K miles. The ownership experience for me has been far less problematic than with multiple Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Porsche, and Cadillac vehicles over the decades. Only the second set of tires. No mechanical issues. A few recalls of minimal consequence, and they had to replace the frunk latches once a few years ago.

I plan to purchase a Gravity to add to my garage (I never lease because of lease-return nightmares common to every brand) -- probably a 2027 -- but am waiting for PAAK to be worked out first. I suspect my experience will be less frustrating than yours.

 

[Adnillien]

Thanks. So it might not be a faulty chip, but wrongly designed circuits? I really doubt that there can be that many faulty chips.

If a chip does not match its datasheet specs, is it wrongly designed or faulty? It seems to me that either term could apply.

 

[joec]

Is it me, or is this place beginning to sound like the Festivus Forum?

Beginning to? Where have you been the last few years?

 

[tarator]

If a chip does not match its datasheet specs, is it wrongly designed or faulty? It seems to me that either term could apply.

If a chip doesn't match its datasheet specs it's faulty. If the chip is put in a circuit that is not designed well, it may fail, but it is not faulty.

I really doubt that a manufacturer will deliver that many chips that don't match their datasheet specs. I'd suspect the circuit. Especially when we are talking about a startup.

Of course, I might be wrong.

 

[Adnillien]

I really doubt that a manufacturer will deliver that many chips that don't match their datasheet specs. I'd suspect the circuit. Especially when we are talking about a startup.

Semiconductor suppliers issue erratums too their datasheets all of time. I don't know the root cause but I think you assumptions about Lucid are not correct.

 

[nashvillelucid]

You guys figure this one out yet?

 

[9point81]

I was able to resolve this on my and my partner’s iphones by turning off location services for the Lucid app. It was draining about 30% of our phone batteries each day but now is 1-2%. It was using the GPS in the background constantly it seems.

That is what I was thinking bc that icon for GPS stays on the whole time the app is in the background. Other apps that use GPS tracking aren't that hungry for energy tho...

 

[hmp10]

Something I don’t understand is why the software fix that Lucid says is coming to address this drive unit problem has not been implemented by now. It showed up in our and other Gravities at least 10 months ago . . . and this is not an ambient Vibe lighting error. It can leave people stranded on the road.

 

[tmichael]

Their slogan is “Compromise Nothing”, they take full payment for their product, and they do not tell any prospective buyer that they “should expect something that is not fully sorted”.

I don’t know that the “fully sorted” part would generate more sales….

 

[9point81]

Something I don’t understand is why the software fix that Lucid says is coming to address this drive unit problem has not been implemented by now. It showed up in our and other Gravities at least 10 months ago . . . and this is not an ambient Vibe lighting error. It can leave people stranded on the road.

We don't know how long it took them to hunt down exactly what the issue is/was. Maybe they thought they fixed it but didn't fully get it? It's a serious issue that needs addressing but they absolutely have to get it right and not cause more problems. I really hope the new software team can get a hold of all the problems (especially you) owners are having and make this vehicle as excellent as we all know it could be. As always, I applaud your patience. I could not have lasted as long given the same, especially since it sounds like you have your bank accounts set up to buy whatever you want whenever you want.

 

[tarator]

Whatever you want to believe is fine by me but please leave me out of it.

So, basically you don't have answers, just speculating like me. Good to know.

The only difference is that you want to believe that it's not Lucid's fault.

The point of this exercise was to demonstrate that it is extremely unlikely that Lucid are so unlucky that they contracted all these vendors that give them faulty components and it's not Lucid's fault. Faulty chips, faulty door handles, faulty fobs. It's not impossible, but it is extremely unlikely.

 

[borski]

Since you know so much about this, what kind of chips are these faulty chips? What do they do? I am not asking which well known and respected manufacturer produces so many faulty chips.

Thanks!

I am not at liberty to disclose, and I never said I knew “so much about this.” I know what I know, and that’s what I said.

I do know the manufacturer and it isn’t hard to figure out, but it is my not information to share.

 

[borski]

Something I don’t understand is why the software fix that Lucid says is coming to address this drive unit problem has not been implemented by now. It showed up in our and other Gravities at least 10 months ago . . . and this is not an ambient Vibe lighting error. It can leave people stranded on the road.

It may not be *fixable* via software; it may be able to be worked around. My suspicion is that is why a sleep “fixes it.” Before they produced the original software fix for this, my assumption (though I didn’t experience this) is that a sleep wouldn’t have fixed it.

The fix is a hardware fix for those who have this issue (which shouldn’t be very many), as I understand it.

 

[JerseyStrong]

inam waiting for anword from the new CEO about direction and its implications for Cosmos, Earth, quality control and suppliers. i just drove belwo DC and back from mid-Jersey and was delighted with the improvements made in the 2.9 release. I am hopeful for 3.0. if they just get that door lock problem solved!

 

[tarator]

You seek finding out whose fault it is. That is the definition of seeking who to blame.

If you don't find the source of a fault, you can't fix it. That has nothing to do with blame. I still don't believe that it's possible for so many of Lucid's vendors to have so many faulty components.

 

[prgarg]

It looks like they will have more Lemons than the cars sold this quarter
This video accelerate the rate of Lemon law filings.

Just heard that Lucid's reorg plan involves converting the Studios into lemonade stands

 

[TahoeMichael]

If you don't find the source of a fault, you can't fix it. That has nothing to do with blame. I still don't believe that it's possible for so many of Lucid's vendors to have so many faulty components.

Managing a supply chain, including the quality of supplied components, is often a challenge in manufacturing. For those new to the process, it tends to be a steep learning curve. And even for those experienced but at new companies, it takes a lot of work to build a supplier relationship that can be depended on. We know for a fact that a least one of Lucid's quality problem is the result of an unapproved change made by a supplier (seat welds).

I have no inside knowledge to share here, but I have started a company that built custom CPU chips. Most people are surprised at how many vendors are involved in the production of a chip and there's a lot that can go wrong, including a whole array of problems that tend to show up as infant mortality after passing initial quality checks.

At the end of the day, the buck stops with Lucid. But I do have some sympathy for how hard a problem they face. Although not enough sympathy to have yet laid down the cash for a Gravity.

 

[socktucker]

Since you know so much about this, what kind of chips are these faulty chips? What do they do? I am not asking which well known and respected manufacturer produces so many faulty chips.

Thanks!

There’s only a handful of companies in the world that even make something like those chips. There’s no way they’re low bid flea market stuff which doesn’t even exist. Low bid is for sure the switches and audio systems, they’re bad and feel cheap. But chip controllers for bespoke EV motors? You can’t get those cheap even if you wanted to.

 

[socktucker]

The only person I called a liar was Emad, and that was a question, not a statement.

See though? That’s why execs from companies don’t engage with communities much. I hate Lucid. I hate the car. I hate the time of mine they waste and all the crap they put me though.

But.

Emad isn’t a liar. There’s no evidence of that and it’s poor form to even say that. I promise he’s not sitting around talking shit about you to his friends on Slack or whatever.

 

[hmp10]

It may not be *fixable* via software; it may be able to be worked around. My suspicion is that is why a sleep “fixes it.” Before they produced the original software fix for this, my assumption (though I didn’t experience this) is that a sleep wouldn’t have fixed it.

The fix is a hardware fix for those who have this issue (which shouldn’t be very many), as I understand it.

Dlala told me today that there would be an upcoming software "fix" for this issue. If they don't replace the bad chip, though, I'm not sure I want to drive this car except locally until the software fix is issued and confirmed to work. And I don't know if the chip can be replaced without replacing the drive unit.

What I do know is that we have taken this car on an out-of-state road trip twice, and we've come home in a rental car twice.