Considering Paint protection film (PPF)

[EVCar]

Has anyone put the windshield protectors on? It's like a screen protector but for the windshield? Does it mess with any sensors? It goes on the exterior of the windshield. I am curious if it messed up auto wipers or any sensors

I used it for the sunroof on another car. $700.
The material is supposedly in short supply at this time.
I read somewhere that it may interfere with the wipers.

 

[Volund]

Your installer used Expel? 8 or 10 mm?

It was 8mm if I remember correctly

 

[borski]

It was 8mm if I remember correctly

A mil is a measurement that equals one-thousandth of an inch, or 0.001 inch. One mil also equals 0.0254 mm (millimeter). Just FYI. I sure hope your PPF isn’t almost a centimeter thick.

 

[EVCar]

A mil is a measurement that equals one-thousandth of an inch, or 0.001 inch. One mil also equals 0.0254 mm (millimeter). Just FYI. I sure hope your PPF isn’t almost a centimeter thick.

My bad. The unit should have been mil, which is 1/1000 inch. Not mm. Glad you still remember what was taught at MIT -)

 

[Volund]

My bad. The unit should have been mil, which is 1/1000 inch. Not mm. Glad you still remember what was taught at MIT -)

yes, this lol
good catch @borski

 

[chipcaldwell]

I decided to get my AGT wrapped with paint protection film (PPF). I’m still waiting for my car to arrive. So I’m doing the research now. Today I visited the top XPEL installer (AP3 Atlanta) in Georgia and a national dealer of the year for the past 3 years. So they know what they’re doing. They were wrapping their second Lucid Dream Edition today. I got a real education on the process.

Here is a video I took. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wTCndTyWF5CN_X18Ty61wrilxeeuRY3a/view?usp=drivesdk

Did you have AP3 PPF & tint your Lucid?I am considering them. Tx... Chip

 

[steveairgt]

PPF yes, tint no.
I’m very satisfied.

 

[hmp10]

We just got our car wrapped with Xpel Ultimate Fusion, their newest product which is "infused" (whatever that means) with ceramic. There are two minor installation issues I'm going to bring to the attention of the installer when I have time.

But, so far:

The Zenith Red finish now looks a mile deep. A friend was amazed at how rich and deep our earlier Zenith Red with Opti-Coat Pro3 ceramic looked after an application of Opti-Seal. He thinks this car looks even better. (I used a clear gloss film on the body and a clear matte film on the silver roof cantrails and mirrors, as the roof finish was mysteriously shinier than on the mirrors -- something that was not the case with our first Air.)

The car attracts less dust now. We have to drive past a few construction sites near our house, and the clouds of fine dust that kicked up adhered instantly and copiously to our earlier Air on the lower panels behind the rear wheels and to the top of the bumper under the trunk lid. With the Xpel ceramic film, it took more than a week for the dust accumulation to become even barely noticeable.

It hasn't rained here since installation, and I've washed the car only once with the film. The hydrophobic coating beaded water like nobody's business. I don't know how long its hydrophobic property will last (I've heard none are really permanent), but right now it's stellar.

Xpel claims putting the film through a car wash is fine and won't affect the 10-year warranty. Maybe I'll finally screw up the courage to try it when rainy season hits Florida, making a car wash good for about half a day.

 

[xponents]

We just got our car wrapped with Xpel Ultimate Fusion, their newest product which is "infused" (whatever that means) with ceramic. There are two minor installation issues I'm going to bring to the attention of the installer when I have time.

But, so far:

The Zenith Red finish now looks a mile deep. A friend was amazed at how rich and deep our earlier Zenith Red with Opti-Coat Pro3 ceramic looked after an application of Opti-Seal. He thinks this car looks even better. (I used a clear gloss film on the body and a clear matte film on the silver roof cantrails and mirrors.)

The car attracts less dust now. We have to drive past a few construction sites near our house, and the clouds of fine dust that kicked up adhered instantly and copiously to our earlier Air on the lower panels behind the rear wheels and to the top of the bumper under the trunk lid. With the Xpel ceramic film, it took more than a week for the dust accumulation to become even barely noticeable.

It hasn't rained here since installation, and I've washed the car only once with the film. The hydrophobic coating beaded water like nobody's business. I don't know how long its hydrophobic property will last (I've heard none are really permanent), but right now it's stellar.

Xpel claims putting the film through a car wash is fine and won't affect the 10-year warranty. Maybe I'll finally screw up the courage to try it when rainy season hits Florida, making a car wash good for about half a day.

I think many detailers have repeated this same thing, but know something: Ceramic on PPF means almost NOTHING, and its still good to get ceramic over ppf.

 

[hmp10]

I think many detailers have repeated this same thing, but know something: Ceramic on PPF means almost NOTHING, and its still good to get ceramic over ppf.

I see no reason why a ceramic coating applied to film at the factory would be any less effective than a ceramic coating applied later. My earlier Air with the most durable ceramic on the market (a silicon carbide product instead of the usual silicone dioxide) had already picked up some minor chips on the leading edges. I knew going in that ceramic really only protects against chemical contamination of the finish, plus adding a bit of visual depth.

One of the reasons I opted for PPF this time was that it is not recommended to put ceramic coatings through automatic carwashes. It voids the coating warranty on most products.

I am obsessed with driving a clean car, and between trying to get appointments with detailers (especially during snowbird season down here) or hand washing the earlier car myself, I just got sick of it all.

I wanted a product I could put through an automatic car wash.

 

[xponents]

I see no reason why a ceramic coating applied to film at the factory would be any less effective than a ceramic coating applied later. My earlier Air with the most durable ceramic on the market (a silicon carbide product instead of the usual silicone dioxide) had already picked up some minor chips on the leading edges. I knew going in that ceramic really only protects against chemical contamination of the finish, plus adding a bit of visual depth.

One of the reasons I opted for PPF this time was that it is not recommended to put ceramic coatings through automatic carwashes. It voids the coating warranty on most products.

I am obsessed with driving a clean car, and between trying to get appointments with detailers (especially during snowbird season down here) or hand washing the earlier car myself, I just got sick of it all.

I wanted a product I could put through an automatic car wash.

Its not real ceramic coating on the film, its just ceramic particles.
If you were taking carwashes, then yeah dont get ceramic. But I would NOT take a car above 50k in a car wash.

 

[hmp10]

Its not real ceramic coating on the film, its just ceramic particles.
If you were taking carwashes, then yeah dont get ceramic. But I would NOT take a car above 50k in a car wash.

I don't really see the point of a price cutoff. You either want to keep your car finish looking good, or you don't. After 14 months of trying to keep our Lucid Air in showroom condition, it wound up totaled when someone turned across our path at an intersection. That has given me a new perspective on the point of it all. I'm done with trying to maintain a showroom finish by manual effort.

Our 2018 Honda Odyssey minivan has no protective coatings at all except a waxing a detailer gives it about once a year. I take it through carwashes regularly. If the finish on our Air looks as good five years from now as the Honda's still looks, I'll be fine with that.

The longest I've ever kept a car, anyway, was the six years we kept our first Tesla. Xpel's warranty is good for ten years, even with automatic car washing.

I think a lot of this phobia about modern automatic car washes is generated by the detailer industry. In fact, when I asked our Xpel installer about whether the film really would hold up for that use, he said, "as a guy who owns a detailing shop, I should tell you no. But, yeah, an automatic wash is not going to hurt this film."

 

[borski]

I see no reason why a ceramic coating applied to film at the factory would be any less effective than a ceramic coating applied later. My earlier Air with the most durable ceramic on the market (a silicon carbide product instead of the usual silicone dioxide) had already picked up some minor chips on the leading edges. I knew going in that ceramic really only protects against chemical contamination of the finish, plus adding a bit of visual depth.

One of the reasons I opted for PPF this time was that it is not recommended to put ceramic coatings through automatic carwashes. It voids the coating warranty on most products.

I am obsessed with driving a clean car, and between trying to get appointments with detailers (especially during snowbird season down here) or hand washing the earlier car myself, I just got sick of it all.

I wanted a product I could put through an automatic car wash.

Ceramic coating, window tinting, and wraps

Ceramic coatings do not last very long and as you have accessed it does not stop chips. PPF with hydrophobic is incredibly easy to wash. Also get a a soap foamer it does a great job.

lucidowners.com

 

[hmp10]

I've had ceramic coating applied to three cars: two Teslas and our first Lucid.

But here's the thing. It's claimed to have a higher MOHS rating than clear coat and higher resistance to chemicals, including acids. However, putting it through an automatic carwash voids the warranty, with the possibility of showing swirl marks given as one of the reasons. (So much for a MOHS hardness rating one step below diamond.)

Yet I've owned many other "unprotected" cars I've put through automatic washes, and their finishes held up just fine for the 3-6 years I typically keep cars.

And, yes, I know what professional detailers say about ceramic coatings. The problem, though, is that they tell so many different stories. One detailer says his preferred product is better than another for this or that reason. Then the detailer who uses a different product says his is better than the first, often for the same set of reasons.

Xpel recommends treating the Ultimate Fusion film I bought with their own PPF sealant once a month. They say it improves the film's absorption of contaminants from bugs and sap by 90%. I find this a disturbing claim for a very expensive ($9,000) film that claims to do so much to keep a car looking new. And it's not an easy product to apply: has to dry to a haze and then be buffed, with reports that it is requires real attention not to leave white pockets in trim crevices. Interestingly, they sell this product for $109 a gallon -- and it's not a concentrate that is diluted for use.

I've come to the conclusion that a good part of the car finish protection industry is a marketing hoax.

I've just gotten to the point that the only thing I want to do is reduce rock chipping of the paint, and I'm trying PPF for the first time in the hope it will accomplish some of that. So far, I like the look of the car with PPF on it . . . but I'm not buying half the crap the detailers push or buy any of the absurdly-priced "maintenance" products that I'm told are absolutely necessary for my supposedly state-of-the-art PPF actually to hold up for a while under normal use.

 

[borski]

I've had ceramic coating applied to three cars: two Teslas and our first Lucid.

But here's the thing. It's claimed to have a higher MOHS rating than clear coat and higher resistance to chemicals, including acids. However, putting it through an automatic carwash voids the warranty, with the possibility of showing swirl marks given as one of the reasons. (So much for a MOHS hardness rating one step below diamond.)

Yet I've owned many other "unprotected" cars I've put through automatic washes, and their finishes held up just fine for the 3-6 years I typically keep cars.

And, yes, I know what professional detailers say about ceramic coatings. The problem, though, is that they tell so many different stories. One detailer says his preferred product is better than another for this or that reason. Then the detailer who uses a different product says his is better than the first, often for the same set of reasons.

Xpel recommends treating the Ultimate Fusion film I bought with their own PPF sealant once a month. They say it improves the film's absorption of contaminants from bugs and sap by 90%. I find this a disturbing claim for a very expensive ($9,000) film that claims to do so much to keep a car looking new. And it's not an easy product to apply: has to dry to a haze and then be buffed, with reports that it is requires real attention not to leave white pockets in trim crevices. Interestingly, they sell this product for $109 a gallon -- and it's not a concentrate that is diluted for use.

I've come to the conclusion that a good part of the car finish protection industry is a marketing hoax.

I've just gotten to the point that the only thing I want to do is reduce rock chipping of the paint, and I'm trying PPF for the first time in the hope it will accomplish some of that. So far, I like the look of the car with PPF on it . . . but I'm not buying half the crap the detailers push or buy any of the absurdly-priced "maintenance" products that I'm told are absolutely necessary for my supposedly state-of-the-art PPF actually to hold up for a while under normal use.

Okay. You do you.

 

[MoniputerLM]

I've had ceramic coating applied to three cars: two Teslas and our first Lucid.

But here's the thing. It's claimed to have a higher MOHS rating than clear coat and higher resistance to chemicals, including acids. However, putting it through an automatic carwash voids the warranty, with the possibility of showing swirl marks given as one of the reasons. (So much for a MOHS hardness rating one step below diamond.)

Yet I've owned many other "unprotected" cars I've put through automatic washes, and their finishes held up just fine for the 3-6 years I typically keep cars.

And, yes, I know what professional detailers say about ceramic coatings. The problem, though, is that they tell so many different stories. One detailer says his preferred product is better than another for this or that reason. Then the detailer who uses a different product says his is better than the first, often for the same set of reasons.

Xpel recommends treating the Ultimate Fusion film I bought with their own PPF sealant once a month. They say it improves the film's absorption of contaminants from bugs and sap by 90%. I find this a disturbing claim for a very expensive ($9,000) film that claims to do so much to keep a car looking new. And it's not an easy product to apply: has to dry to a haze and then be buffed, with reports that it is requires real attention not to leave white pockets in trim crevices. Interestingly, they sell this product for $109 a gallon -- and it's not a concentrate that is diluted for use.

I've come to the conclusion that a good part of the car finish protection industry is a marketing hoax.

I've just gotten to the point that the only thing I want to do is reduce rock chipping of the paint, and I'm trying PPF for the first time in the hope it will accomplish some of that. So far, I like the look of the car with PPF on it . . . but I'm not buying half the crap the detailers push or buy any of the absurdly-priced "maintenance" products that I'm told are absolutely necessary for my supposedly state-of-the-art PPF actually to hold up for a while under normal use.

My 2018 Navigator has NO PPF, NO ceramic coating. Has been through MANY automated car washes, driven on multiple long trips and.... the paint looks pristine!

Having said all of that, I DID put PPF and ceramic coating on my C8 Corvette and Lucid DE. Why, "you have to do that on expensive cars!" I also only have them hand washed.

The PPF has protected the paint against minor scrapes but not sure that it was worth it.

 

[Igor]

A word of caution: I wrapped the front of my AT with STEK ppf, and the whole car with with a 5 year ceramic coating. I used a local shop which everyone raves about. I checked out their work on a bunch of cars and they all looked amazing.

When the car was finished, I went over the whole car and saw a bunch of spots that were not perfectly clear. There were a few lines running along the hood, the rear view mirrors had patches of something underneath, etc. the shop told me that it was water that still needed to dry under the film, and it will evaporate in a few days. It never did.

I had the car back in the shop 4 times now. They had to redo the entire hood, and the rear view mirrors. Then some film came up in the corner of the hood. They were able to fix it w/o re wrapping. Now one of the rear view mirrors is pealing, so I have to bring it back in.

But the worst of the problems were the letters on the front of the car. When the shop put down the film across the chrome part that has the glowing letters on it, and then moved the film in to position, the film lifted off some of the paint off of the letters, and they looked like the pair rubbed off and you could see the light through a portion of the letters! The film actually had an outline of the letters’ paint on it when it was put in to position.

The shop did fix it re wrapping the chrome strip and offered to have a body shop repaint the letters. I did not want anyone disassembling the letters, so instead I opted for the letters to be individually wrapped With chrome. It does look quite awesome, but I wish I did not have to do it to fix damage.

Lastly, the whole car does look great, but me being the perfectionist, if I go over the front of the car with a detail light I can still see quite a few spots where the shop had to “stretch” the film to fit and it just does not look 100%. However, I do not want to get it redone again because I am afraid of damage to the paint.

 

[hmp10]

A word of caution: I wrapped the front of my AT with STEK ppf, and the whole car with with a 5 year ceramic coating. I used a local shop which everyone raves about. I checked out their work on a bunch of cars and they all looked amazing.

When the car was finished, I went over the whole car and saw a bunch of spots that were not perfectly clear. There were a few lines running along the hood, the rear view mirrors had patches of something underneath, etc. the shop told me that it was water that still needed to dry under the film, and it will evaporate in a few days. It never did.

I had the car back in the shop 4 times now. They had to redo the entire hood, and the rear view mirrors. Then some film came up in the corner of the hood. They were able to fix it w/o re wrapping. Now one of the rear view mirrors is pealing, so I have to bring it back in.

But the worst of the problems were the letters on the front of the car. When the shop put down the film across the chrome part that has the glowing letters on it, and then moved the film in to position, the film lifted off some of the paint off of the letters, and they looked like the pair rubbed off and you could see the light through a portion of the letters! The film actually had an outline of the letters’ paint on it when it was put in to position.

The shop did fix it re wrapping the chrome strip and offered to have a body shop repaint the letters. I did not want anyone disassembling the letters, so instead I opted for the letters to be individually wrapped With chrome. It does look quite awesome, but I wish I did not have to do it to fix damage.

Lastly, the whole car does look great, but me being the perfectionist, if I go over the front of the car with a detail light I can still see quite a few spots where the shop had to “stretch” the film to fit and it just does not look 100%. However, I do not want to get it redone again because I am afraid of damage to the paint.

Yep, I'm taking my car in today to have them look at two places where the film did not properly adhere along the edges. Also, I asked them to wrap all the edges, which they said they would. However, they did not wrap the edge where the top of trunk lid meets the black trim strip. There is a visible edge a millimeter or so short of the trim piece.

I used the highest-rated shop in the area whose huge showroom-like workspace is filled with what could pass for a museum of exotics . . . yet I need some rework. I, too, like the look of the film on the car, but it's not the panacea for all finish ills.

Based on a lot of reviews I read, I was planning to use STEK. However, when I contacted one of the authorized installers listed on the STEK website, I was told they quit using STEK because it quickly yellowed under south Florida sun and they had to handle too many warranty replacements. They said they now use only Xpel. Then another installer told me they probably quit using STEK because installers get a discount from suppliers (including Xpel) if they will agree to use only that supplier's product. It's another reason I've developed quite a bit of cynicism about the paint protection industry and its conflicting claims throughout this experience.

 

[chipcaldwell]

We just got our car wrapped with Xpel Ultimate Fusion, their newest product which is "infused" (whatever that means) with ceramic. There are two minor installation issues I'm going to bring to the attention of the installer when I have time.

But, so far:

The Zenith Red finish now looks a mile deep. A friend was amazed at how rich and deep our earlier Zenith Red with Opti-Coat Pro3 ceramic looked after an application of Opti-Seal. He thinks this car looks even better. (I used a clear gloss film on the body and a clear matte film on the silver roof cantrails and mirrors, as the roof finish was mysteriously shinier than on the mirrors -- something that was not the case with our first Air.)

The car attracts less dust now. We have to drive past a few construction sites near our house, and the clouds of fine dust that kicked up adhered instantly and copiously to our earlier Air on the lower panels behind the rear wheels and to the top of the bumper under the trunk lid. With the Xpel ceramic film, it took more than a week for the dust accumulation to become even barely noticeable.

It hasn't rained here since installation, and I've washed the car only once with the film. The hydrophobic coating beaded water like nobody's business. I don't know how long its hydrophobic property will last (I've heard none are really permanent), but right now it's stellar.

Xpel claims putting the film through a car wash is fine and won't affect the 10-year warranty. Maybe I'll finally screw up the courage to try it when rainy season hits Florida, making a car wash good for about half a day.

Tx, hmp. Where did you have it done & would you recommend? And, to clarify, after the XPEL Ultimate Fusion, you applied Opti-Seal, then Opti-Coat Pro3? Thanks is advance ..... Chip

 

[hmp10]

Tx, hmp. Where did you have it done & would you recommend? And, to clarify, after the XPEL Ultimate Fusion, you applied Opti-Seal, then Opti-Coat Pro3? Thanks is advance ..... Chip

See the post I just put up about the installation by Detailers of Naples.

And no, I have not applied any coating to the Xpel Ultimate Fusion. I used Opti-Coat Pro3 with periodic Opti-Seal applications on our original Dream Edition that got wrecked (as well as on our Tesla Model S Plaid and our earlier S P90D). None of those cars were wrapped.

After I bought the $109 bottle of Xpel PPF sealant and realized how tedious it was to apply once I read the label, I called the installer to see if he thought using it was really necessary with the Ultimate Fusion film. He said no.

I had read a Reddit forum where people were discussing Xpel PPF. Several posters said they had written Xpel about what products could safely be used as topcoats for their film, and the posters said Xpel had sent them a list of approved products from different brands. So I did the same but got a response saying nothing but their own ceramic or their PPF sealer should be put on the film. I don't know what changed, but I suspect their marketing department intervened.