Bizarre Hey Lucid Interaction

[hmp10]

Interesting, that hasn’t been our experience. It will recognize me with nearly 100% accuracy, but my wife not so much. Either way I much prefer the steering wheel button launch for any of these ‘voice assistants’. I just feel like a dork with ‘hey Siri’, ‘hey Lucid’. After hearing some of the experiences here, it’s no great loss for me to turn off ‘hey Lucid’.

Here's a usual scenario in our car. We start driving, and my partner will call on the voice assistant to play a song or an artist. "Hey, Lucid" will bring up a similar-sounding song or artist but not the one he asked for or, if he's asked for an artist, he will not like the song that first comes up. So he'll ask for something else. This can happen several times in the first few minutes of a drive until he settles into his desired music groove. It would drive me crazy if he had to ask me to hit the microphone button every time -- or if he terminated the screens I'm using to get to the music screen.

Having to give up a feature that is desirable in my car to avoid the unwanted intrusion of ad teases is not a good trade in my book. It's also annoying to be having a conversation and suddenly have the car's audio system talking to you for any reason, much less to hawk a good or service.

 

[Joe]

This thread is open for discussion, as we value open dialogue, but please refrain from personal attacks as we’ll issue warnings if necessary.

Lucid is aware of the conversation and may respond if they choose to.

 

[Andretex]

Omg this thread is out of control. If you are concerned about privacy, please turn off Hey Lucid, your iphone, your browsing on the computer, your mail, your credit cards transactions, your home automations, etc…

Or you can maybe civilly put on the feature request list for Hey Lucid not to share data from listening in your car. I am sure Lucid will offer this option at some point.

 

[fisheral]

They have already reached out to me to collect information on the interaction.

 

[jake241983]

We spent about eight hours driving over the weekend mostly listening to podcasts. It picked up random stuff from the podcasts a few times and responded to it.

I drive a lot for work and usually listen to audiobooks. My Bixby voice assistant occasionally picks up on the audiobook and tries to respond to it. Whatever they're saying is close enough to "Hey Bixby" to trigger it. Then it listens to whatever comes next and tries to respond.

This seems like exactly the same thing to me.

 

[hmp10]

If you are concerned about privacy, please turn off Hey Lucid, your iphone, your browsing on the computer, your mail, your credit cards transactions, your home automations, etc…

It's not only about privacy. It's also about having a conversation between me and passengers interrupted by the audio system. The things you listed may be invasive, but none of them actually intrude on conversation.

Why must our cars, especially premium cars such as Lucids, do this? I bought the Lucid because it is a superb driving machine and passenger conveyance. If it turns into yet another source of spam unless I turn off features that actually are otherwise useful, what's the point?

Are people actually incapable of asking for a referral to goods or services if they want one?

It has been suggested that these "interventions" aren't actually ads. In fact, advertising is exactly what they're about. "Hey, Lucid" was not going to give @fisheral's wife marriage or divorce counseling. It was going to refer her to some paid service.

 

[joec]

It's important to remember there are two things going on here with Lucid Assistant.

1) it's a voice-activated system. And yes, that system is only going to be triggered if it hears something it thinks is "Hey Lucid." That isn't the same thing as what you or I think sounds like "Hey Lucid." Computers don't think like we do. LA is not listening to, recording, uploading, or analyzing everything you say in your car. This would be both unethical, and as someone pointed out, likely illegal. It would also be moronic for a young company trying to create a reputation of trust.

2) It's based on some sort of AI. Unlike older voice assistants that are really just complex algorithms rather than a more modern LLM, systems like Lucid Assistant are going to be very unpredictable. No one (seriously) knows exactly how these networks arrive at the conclusions they do. They get trained, and then they are let loose on the world, and we have zero control over what they say or how they think afterwards, other than to train it further with guardrails over time when they do something really stupid. If that sounds scary, it's because it could be, if we allow these systems to control too much of our lives too quickly.

Attempting to answer questions while we drive is probably fairly innocuous. But we all have different risk tolerances for these sorts of things. There's a reason you can not only turn off "Hey Lucid" but also turn off LA altogether.

So when confronted with stories such as those reported here, which I totally believe and are validly concerning, you have to ask yourself, what's more likely:

a) Peter Rawlinson, in a desperate attempt to make money, has created one of the riskiest businesses possible (a nascent auto manufacturer) so he can install a secret listening system in each of the couple of thousand cars he's sold, thus spying on customers whenever they drive, just so he can then take that data and play back ads?

b) Lucid's software team, bless their hearts, built something with AI that sometimes hallucinates and responds with inappropriate audio / dialogue that makes little sense but still resembles what was being said in a strange enough way to seem totally suspicious?

I'll let you decide.

As far as customer service reps and what they say, I think we've all seen enough examples over time of just how often they make things up when they don't have an answer on hand, haven't we?

Again, feel free to draw your own conclusions. I only caution folks to think through the possibilities and perhaps at least entertain the possibility Lucid doesn't always get things right on the first try. This stuff is hard.

 

[borski]

Wow, Hey Lucid can be your marriage counselor! That is really strange. My guess is that Hey Lucid listens a lot. I've switched the voice activation on and off a few times already, because it's more way sensitive than it should be. Unlike Alexa, which pretty much only responded to things if you started with Alexa, Hey Lucid comes on without saying Hey Lucid. If you're singing along to a song, it comes up and wants to help. So it is probably just responding as any assistant would to what it thinks is a request. But it does seem kind of random as to when it activates.

This is 100% correct.

I just talked to Lucid Customer Care. This is a "feature" of "Hey, Lucid". It analyzes conversations in the car and interjects -- unbidden -- suggestions about goods and services into your conversation.

I was told I could defeat this by turning off "Hey, Lucid" voice activation, but if I want the voice activation that is now almost standard in luxury cars, I will have to put up with Lucid interrupting occupant conversation to "suggest" things I might want.

This is not true, would likely be illegal in the EU, and that CS rep needs both retraining and a reprimand.

You can absolutely turn off the wake word activation and leave the feature still on.

Interrupting you “mid conversation” is not the intended behavior or feature.

Really? Does Alexa offer unprompted ads while
to the conversations of users? Also, IMO, they are really not comparable. Alexa is a DEDICATED voice assistant. That is its sole purpose. Why would a CAR need to give you unprompted ads?

Yes, Alexa does.

And a car doesn’t need to, and it doesn’t.

I am utterly perplexed that people think having your conversation with another person interrupted by an ad push is not objectionable.

Nobody disagrees with you that that is objectionable. That just also isn’t what the feature is; that’s what happened, but that is not the intended behavior no matter what a CS rep told you.

No wonder why LA started "thinking" when we are talking about some shit...
HOLY SHIT... I don't like it either... I will turn it off for now as it's useless anyways

It started “thinking” because it thought it heard you say Hey Lucid.

Turn off the wake word and just use the mic button to use it if it makes you more comfortable.

What the CS rep described as the new "feature" was exactly what happened in our car twice on Saturday and what @fisheral described as happening to his wife.

It sure is great when coincidences align to make us crazy. That rep is wrong.

Yes, it's one thing for a computer program to listen to sounds in order to trigger when it hears a certain sound sequence. It's another thing for the program to analyze the content of a conversation in order to tee up suggestions relating to that conversation.

I agree. Those are different. Luckily LA is doing the former.

Why should we have to work around a convenience that is becoming standard in luxury cars -- i. e., passengers' ability to initiate voice command -- in order to avoid having unwanted tee-ups for ads thrust upon us?

Don’t. Turn it off if it bothers you, and use the mic button. Otherwise, wait for it to get better at understanding when it hears “Hey Lucid.” It is not listening to you 24/7.

Again, it is mystifying how readily people are willing to tumble to yet another advertising intrusion into our lives. Aren't constant spam calls and texts on our land lines and cell phones and constant ads on streaming services for which we already pay a fee enough to tire us of this?

Yes. That isn’t what’s happening here. This is a misunderstanding, because LA is too sensitive about hearing “Hey Lucid.” Alexa and Siri both had this problem for years too, and my Alexa *still* triggers often. I do think there should be a chime when it’s listening.

I remember years ago when CNN first got started, one of their big selling features was that, by paying a fee for their news, you would be spared advertisements. Now, 80% of the time I switch to CNN on my paid-for cable feed, I find they're at commercial break and I move on to another channel.

Do we really want our cars to be next?

Nope. I’m with you. That’s not what’s happening.

It's not only about privacy. It's also about having a conversation between me and passengers interrupted by the audio system. The things you listed may be invasive, but none of them actually intrude on conversation. Why must our cars, especially premium cars such as Lucids, do this?

They don’t. Not on purpose.

I bought the Lucid because it is a superb driving machine and passenger conveyance. If it turns into yet another source of spam unless I turn off features that actually are otherwise useful, what's the point?

Same. That’s not what it is.

Are people actually incapable of asking for a referral to goods or services if they want one?

It has been suggested that these "interventions" aren't actually ads. In fact, advertising is exactly what they're about. "Hey, Lucid" was not going to give @fisheral's wife marriage or divorce counseling. It was going to refer her to some paid service.

I’m actually not convinced of that, because LLMs answer questions. You may be surprised if you start that kind of conversation. If you haven’t played with LLMs, I can see why you would think the next step is obviously an ad. My bet? It was going to actually try to give (likely terrible) relationship advice.

 

[hmp10]

I use Siri frequently. I have never had it interrupt a conversation to offer something I did not request.

I've been scratching my head to figure out what word(s) are so close to "Hey, Lucid" that it would trigger any more than "Hey, Siri" would.

 

[xponents]

I use Siri frequently. I have never had it interrupt a conversation to offer something I did not request.

I've been scratching my head to figure out what word(s) are so close to "Hey, Lucid" that it would trigger any more than "Hey, Siri" would.

Were there any Danish words that could sound similar?

 

[joec]

I use Siri frequently. I have never had it interrupt a conversation to offer something I did not request.

I've been scratching my head to figure out what word(s) are so close to "Hey, Lucid" that it would trigger any more than "Hey, Siri" would.

Oh, my Siri goes off at least four or five times a week. Even now. It used to be worse.

My wife and I just shrug our shoulders every time. It's a fun guessing game at times trying to figure out what it THOUGHT we said.

 

[NoseyReporter]

I use Siri frequently. I have never had it interrupt a conversation to offer something I did not request.

I've been scratching my head to figure out what word(s) are so close to "Hey, Lucid" that it would trigger any more than "Hey, Siri" would.

Ahh but Siri has been around for years. Apple likely had plenty of time to polish it before its first release, and plenty of time since then to refine it.

Lucid on the other hand.... probably not so much.

Give it some time hmp10. I'm sure they just need to turn some knobs to refine the system.

 

[mcr16]

At Lucid, customer privacy is of paramount importance. The Lucid Assistant voice control feature is no exception, and it was designed to give people in the car another way to interact with the vehicle, such as entering a navigation route, switching radio stations, or hearing more info from the owner’s manual while still meeting customer expectations for privacy.

How – or whether – you use Lucid Assistant is entirely up to you.

As is typical for many popular home and vehicle voice assistant systems, users can activate Lucid Assistant by speaking a “wake up” phrase (“Hey Lucid”). This can also easily be turned off in the settings menu of your vehicle. Lucid Assistant can also be activated by pressing briefly the microphone button on the steering wheel. Or, you can simply turn off Lucid Assistant completely.

If the “wake up” phrase feature is enabled in your vehicle, it’s possible that Lucid Assistant may on occasion be unintentionally triggered, if the system detects sounds that it reads as similar to “Hey Lucid.” You’ll see live audio transcription on the screen in the vehicle, so occupants have can clearly see that Lucid Assistant has been activated.

We want to be clear, though, that under no circumstances does Lucid or the Lucid Assistant feature record the content of in-car conversations, use in-car conversations or personal information for ad-targeting purposes, or deliver advertisements.

 

[hmp10]

At Lucid, customer privacy is of paramount importance.

Thank you so much for the assurance and the explanation both you and @borski have provided.

I will give it some time to see if the kinks can be worked out so that "Hey, Lucid" does not intrude on conversation as it has recently. As you might have surmised, any signs of possible further ad intrusion is a particular trigger for me due to some personal experiences, and Ford's recent patent application for just such a feature has left me on edge about where this trend goes next -- particularly where it might go in the world of driving, a place I had assumed until recently would remain a haven from a life inundated by spam and advertising.

 

[borski]

Thank you so much for the assurance and the explanation both you and @borski have provided.

I will give it some time to see if the kinks can be worked out so that "Hey, Lucid" does not intrude on conversation as it has recently. As you might have surmised, any signs of possible further ad intrusion is a particular trigger for me due to some personal experiences, and Ford's recent patent application for just such a feature has left me on edge about where this trend goes next -- particularly where it might go in the world of driving, a place I had assumed until recently would remain a haven from a life inundated by spam and advertising.

Just to be super clear: I'm right there with you. I very much do not want my car, which is one of my methods of relaxation, to become 'yet another medium for companies to shove ads down my throat.'

I, too, bristled at that Ford patent as you may recall:

No, it doesn’t have to be. We do this to ourselves by buying products that do this to us. If Ford starts doing this, I can safely say I’m not buying a Ford ever again until they stop. If Lucid starts doing this, the same holds true. I do not care *at all* how great the car is.

And if everyone starts doing it, I will blackhole the crap out of every ad network in my car and post publicly how to do it, or build a tool that does it for you, and I will make that car company’s ads do nothing but cost them money while they try to show me an ad for deodorant.

And then I will never buy a car from that company again until they stop. I’ll ride a goddamn bike if I have to.

I meant that. The reason I knew Lucid wasn't doing this is because of the people I've met at Lucid (whom I know are not idiots), and because it is such an absurd proposition.

If Lucid starts doing this, I'll be the first to hold up the signs right there with you, and picket Newark myself, lol.

But the fact that my gut reaction to Ford doing it was 'duh, that makes sense' and my gut reaction to Lucid doing it was 'there is absolutely zero chance that is true' is a really good sign, I think, of the trust Lucid has gained in some of our eyes. That's a great thing, imho.

 

[hmp10]

The reason I knew Lucid wasn't doing this is because of the people I've met at Lucid (whom I know are not idiots), and because it is such an absurd proposition.

Agree. What really threw me was that Customer Care did not explain this as an unintended artifact but rather touted it as a new feature of the Lucid Assistant.

Also, I got further exercised by the suggestions here that it is really no big deal and just something inevitable that we should all roll with, either by accepting it or just turning off a feature that is otherwise useful.

It's this passivity that opens the door for advertising to creep further and further into every crevice of our lives. American roadways were once so cluttered with billboards that you could not even see much of the countryside through which you were driving until Lady Bird Johnson started her campaign to give us some relief, at least on federal highways. Phone landlines have long since succumbed to a deluge of robocalls and cold calling. Paid cable, once touted as a haven from advertising, is now indistinguishable from broadcast in terms of ad programming. It takes ever-evolving blocking apps to keep our cell phones above water. Email spam folders fill up faster than urinals at a beer fest. Text spam is growing.

And now Ford is trying to patent technology for pushing ads into cars . . . .

 

[AirPlur]

I decided to get some answers for myself and believe the module's showing its bias and pettiness, probably because "she's" been listening my wife's very vocal gripes/profanities directed at the car's (imo forgivable) occasional shortcomings.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Your guess is as good as mine if Oklahoma is a state, or a for-hire rebound.

 

[Amster]

I meant that. The reason I knew Lucid wasn't doing this is because of the people I've met at Lucid (whom I know are not idiots), and because it is such an absurd proposition.

If Lucid starts doing this, I'll be the first to hold up the signs right there with you, and picket Newark myself, lol.

But the fact that my gut reaction to Ford doing it was 'duh, that makes sense' and my gut reaction to Lucid doing it was 'there is absolutely zero chance that is true' is a really good sign, I think, of the trust Lucid has gained in some of our eyes. That's a great thing, imho.

It's kind of an automatic assumption these days that companies are doing things like this whenever they can. It's really assuring that you, as an owner not connected to the company but better connected than some of us, have that faith in what is and isn't gong on.

 

[Lightmatrix]

My "Hey Lucid" went off randomly while my kids were singing in the backseat. This caused much consternation as it interrupted the flow of the music.

 

[Bobby]

My "Hey Lucid" went off randomly while my kids were singing in the backseat. This caused much consternation as it interrupted the flow of the music.

The voice activation can be shut off if you wish.