Battery Degradation After 1 Year

[Mouthpiece]

Now that some cars are a year old I was wondering how much range has been lost due to battery degradation. With my Tesla I seem to lose 1-2% of range/year. That battery degradation holds for a 100% charge and a 90% charge (only two data points I tracked). What battery degradation is Lucid experiencing after a year?

 

[Bus Driver]

Now that some cars are a year old I was wondering how much range has been lost due to battery degradation. With my Tesla I seem to lose 1-2% of range/year. That battery degradation holds for a 100% charge and a 90% charge (only two data points I tracked). What battery degradation is Lucid experiencing after a year?

Watching this thread…

 

[MikeTz]

DEP delivered Dec 2021. As delivered, our first full charge to 100 % indicated 455 Mile range. The last time we fully charged to 100% it indicated 445. Unlike our 2020 Taycan which was fully charged constantly, we don't usually bother charging the Lucid to 100%, and don't have may data points. If I lost x% range on the Taycan I would worry a lot more than if I lost x% on the Lucid.

 

[Bus Driver]

DEP delivered Dec 2021. As delivered, our first full charge to 100 % indicated 455 Mile range. The last time we fully charged to 100% it indicated 445. Unlike our 2020 Taycan which was fully charged constantly, we don't usually bother charging the Lucid to 100%, and don't have may data points. If I lost x% range on the Taycan I would worry a lot more than if I lost x% on the Lucid.

Thanks for your data point. Within days of taking delivery of my Air GT (Range), I charged it up to 100%, just to say that I did. At finish, the mileage read 516 miles, right on the money for the Air GT with 19 inch aero wheels.

I’ve since charged it up to 100% a second time but I didn’t check the range in miles. I don’t believe I’ll see 516 miles ever again.

I’m thinking I’ll be like you. I’ll have little reason to ever charge to 100%, and I won’t be checking what the miles are when I do. Not much anyway.

But I’d still be interested in a Lucid battery’s degradation rate especially as compared to Teslas.

 

[MikeTz]

Thanks for your data point. Within days of taking delivery of my Air GT (Range), I charged it up to 100%, just to say that I did. At finish, the mileage read 516 miles, right on the money for the Air GT with 19 inch aero wheels.

I’ve since charged it up to 100% a second time but I didn’t check the range in miles. I don’t believe I’ll see 516 miles ever again.

I’m thinking I’ll be like you. I’ll have little reason to ever charge to 100%, and I won’t be checking what the miles are when I do. Not much anyway.

But I’d still be interested in a Lucid battery’s degradation rate especially as compared to Teslas.

Given that both Tesla and the Lucid are using Panasonic cells, I would expect similar degradation over time. I am sure both have design their BMS to protect the warranty they have with Panasonic.

 

[Bad driver 20202]

Thanks for your data point. Within days of taking delivery of my Air GT (Range), I charged it up to 100%, just to say that I did. At finish, the mileage read 516 miles, right on the money for the Air GT with 19 inch aero wheels.

I’ve since charged it up to 100% a second time but I didn’t check the range in miles. I don’t believe I’ll see 516 miles ever again.

I’m thinking I’ll be like you. I’ll have little reason to ever charge to 100%, and I won’t be checking what the miles are when I do. Not much anyway.

But I’d still be interested in a Lucid battery’s degradation rate especially as compared to Teslas.

The range is determined by more than just the battery charge level. After driving for a while, the software will determine your range based on your driving history. Similar to the range that you get on an ICE.

 

[MikeTz]

The range is determined by more than just the battery charge level. After driving for a while, the software will determine your range based on your driving history. Similar to the range that you get on an ICE.

True, But, the amount of energy that can be stored and recovered from a pack is how degradation is actually measured and is used for warranty coverage purposes as well.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

In Kyle’s range test on the GT he got from an owner whose car was likely built the same week as mine, it looked like it had a little less than 1% degradation, as it had about 109kw (GT starts at 112kw). According to some degradation is not a linear event but happens early on in the first 5k miles and then slows down. He had put 100k miles on a Tesla Model 3 which saw very frequent DCFC to 100% and it had degraded to 91% of its original kw, so I think the degradation on the Lucid will not be much.

 

[RichMalden]

I thought I remember reading that first year degradation tends to be a little higher, in general, compared to succeeding years too.

 

[Haggy]

Given that both Tesla and the Lucid are using Panasonic cells, I would expect similar degradation over time. I am sure both have design their BMS to protect the warranty they have with Panasonic.

There's more to it than that. Panasonic is the supplier/manufacturer, and 18650 and 2170 are form factors, and people confuse those for "type of battery," which is a less concrete concept. Tesla has changed battery chemistry over the years, not to mention that Panasonic was making batteries long before they teamed up with Tesla. When they started making 18650 cells with Tesla's chemistry, it didn't mean that they changed the chemistry of their consumer 18650 cells. So knowing who made them alone, of what shape they are, isn't much information. Unless Lucid said that they are using the same chemistry, which might be the case, but articles I see about it don't seem to be accurate. I would reasonably expect Lucid to go by what's likely best, given that it's relatively more important at this point than cost cutting.

Vis a vis Tesla, I have a 2014 Model S that has lost six miles of range at 90% compared to when new. It has about 70k miles on it. I also have a 2017 Model 3 with about 40k miles on it. Usage is similar except that the Model 3 has had only two of three road trips, hence little supercharging.

The Model 3 was rated at 310 when new, and was supposedly raised to 325 with an OTA update that actually gave me maybe 314 or so. It's now at around 286 or so. A big portion of the drop happened during COVID-19 lockdowns when the car was mostly just sitting in the garage at around 80%.

So, ymmv is accurate for Tesla.

Also, range loss was higher in the first year with the Model S, which is typical. With the Model 3, it dropped a lot starting the third year, with little loss before that. I suspect that it might be particular modules rather than degradation, but I wouldn't expect Tesla to care. Lucid might be more responsive to a sudden range loss since they could use the engineering analysis information.

 

[Mouthpiece]

What I use as a measure is the range the car thinks it has at various states of charge. I know that ignores actual range but it also eliminates variability it driving conditions, temperature, and whether the wife is with me or not. After 7 months and about 6000 miles my numbers are a bit strange.

100% charge = new 516 miles; now 515 (0%)

90% charge = new 472 miles; now 469 miles (0.6% less)

80% charge = new 429 miles; now 416 miles (3.0% less)

I used the app to set the percentage but I suspect the app is as accurate as it could be.

 

[Bobby]

What I use as a measure is the range the car thinks it has at various states of charge. I know that ignores actual range but it also eliminates variability it driving conditions, temperature, and whether the wife is with me or not. After 7 months and about 6000 miles my numbers are a bit strange.

100% charge = new 516 miles; now 515 (0%)

90% charge = new 472 miles; now 469 miles (0.6% less)

80% charge = new 429 miles; now 416 miles (3.0% less)

I used the app to set the percentage but I suspect the app is as accurate as it could be.

As far as I know those numbers have nothing to do with reality or degradation.

 

[Mouthpiece]

Bobby, what is a good measure of degradation? How far you can drive can't be - too many factors affect range.

 

[Bobby]

Bobby, what is a good measure of degradation? How far you can drive can't be - too many factors affect range.

I’m not sure there is any way to objectivity measure it. I wish Lucid would open its API like others have.

 

[Sparky2]

I have a 2017 tesla S D 100, original range when new was 335 miles. it’s now turning 140,000 miles driven and I’m lucky to get to 295 miles of indicated range with the home charger . When supercharging , the currently predicted time to 100% is WAY off regarding the time to charge. It will display “45 minutes” but it’s actually needing 1.5 hours to get to 285-290 (from 50-60 starting state of range) so, on real world road trips, I drive for about 3 hours, then charge for 1 and 1 /2 hours then drive for 3 hours. Very frustrating for road trips and I typically drive 1200 to 1700 miles per trip..WHICH is why I own a Lucid AGT With 512(16?) of range.
Anyway, I‘ve got 11,000 miles on the car currently and know that I can charge to at least 510 miles of indicated range. I’ll shoot for a full 100% today on the local EA super charger and see what that shows.
BTW, I live up near Portland Oregon and have NEVER gotten close to 500+ miles of range. Though, to be fair, my car was delivered in October when the temps were in the low to mid 40’s and now, at the end of May, they’re in the 50’s and, we live on a hill.
My guess is we get about 350 miles of real world range on average. In about two weeks I head to Tempe AZ where I’ll be tracking my range (as well as noting my EA charge station experiences). With the warmer Ca and HOT Az temps, I EXPECT much better ranges.
I will also endeavor to keep my speed at 70 mph or below…except in Az where I will try not to exceed 75. (Hard to do in a car that seems to loaf along at 120 mph and at 140mph it whispers “I can go much faster”)

 

[Demosthenes]

AGT 21 brand new: 100% charge = 469
One year later and 20k miles: 100% charge = 463

 

[Bus Driver]

AGT 21 brand new: 100% charge = 469
One year later and 20k miles: 100% charge = 463

Thanks for the data point! Good to know. My hunch is, even given the fastest degradation rate in year one or 12,000 miles, the Lucid’s battery pack will not degrade at the same rate as say, that of a first and second generation Model S or Model X in their first 12,000 miles. I can’t speak to the degradation rate of Model 3 or Model Y battery packs.

Just a hunch, and maybe a little more of a hope…

 

[Demosthenes]

Thanks for the data point! Good to know. My hunch is, even given the fastest degradation rate in year one or 12,000 miles, the Lucid’s battery pack will not degrade at the same rate as say, that of a first and second generation Model S or Model X in their first 12,000 miles. I can’t speak to the degradation rate of Model 3 or Model Y battery packs.

Just a hunch, and maybe a little more of a hope…

Hopefully! I have some extra mileage on mine and my charging is a mixture of mostly DC fast charging and ultra slow trickle charging.

 

[Bus Driver]

I have a 2017 tesla S D 100, original range when new was 335 miles. it’s now turning 140,000 miles driven and I’m lucky to get to 295 miles of indicated range with the home charger . When supercharging , the currently predicted time to 100% is WAY off regarding the time to charge. It will display “45 minutes” but it’s actually needing 1.5 hours to get to 285-290 (from 50-60 starting state of range) so, on real world road trips, I drive for about 3 hours, then charge for 1 and 1 /2 hours then drive for 3 hours. Very frustrating for road trips and I typically drive 1200 to 1700 miles per trip..WHICH is why I own a Lucid AGT With 512(16?) of range.
Anyway, I‘ve got 11,000 miles on the car currently and know that I can charge to at least 510 miles of indicated range. I’ll shoot for a full 100% today on the local EA super charger and see what that shows.
BTW, I live up near Portland Oregon and have NEVER gotten close to 500+ miles of range. Though, to be fair, my car was delivered in October when the temps were in the low to mid 40’s and now, at the end of May, they’re in the 50’s and, we live on a hill.
My guess is we get about 350 miles of real world range on average. In about two weeks I head to Tempe AZ where I’ll be tracking my range (as well as noting my EA charge station experiences). With the warmer Ca and HOT Az temps, I EXPECT much better ranges.
I will also endeavor to keep my speed at 70 mph or below…except in Az where I will try not to exceed 75. (Hard to do in a car that seems to loaf along at 120 mph and at 140mph it whispers “I can go much faster”)

We don’t have or Model S75D anymore, which, like yours, was built in 2017. We still have our 2018-build Model X100D. But on road trips I’ve experienced the same vexations you’re talking about in our Model X - wildly inaccurate charging time estimates, coupled with a charging rate that slows to a trickle above 85%. On road trips, it’s the same thing there too - drive for three hours or about 170 miles, then charge for about an hour, usually more, to get back 200 miles.

Over a full day of driving, it just gets really tedious, especially by the third charging stop.

I’m looking forward to doing my yearly San Diego CA to Denver CO drive in my Air GT. Driving at 80 mph or below, Abetterrouteplanner.com predicts that I can cover the entire the entire 1100 mile journey in three charging stops. I’m looking forward to proving this for myself. Particularly tantalising is the prospect of repeating what I’ve seen possible at my local EA chargers - 200 miles in 19 minutes! And that’s just using your lowly 150 kWH charger, without even bothering to precondition. I’ve attached pictures below.

It’ll be a treat to do a road trip in an EV, especially in one as long legged as our Air GTs!

 

[Demosthenes]

We don’t have or Model S75D anymore, which, like yours, was built in 2017. We still have our 2018-build Model X100D. But on road trips I’ve experienced the same vexations you’re talking about in our Model X - wildly inaccurate charging time estimates, coupled with a charging rate that slows to a trickle above 85%. On road trips, it’s the same thing there too - drive for three hours or about 170 miles, then charge for about an hour, usually more, to get back 200 miles.

Over a full day of driving, it just gets really tedious, especially by the third charging stop.

I’m looking forward to doing my yearly San Diego CA to Denver CO drive in my Air GT. Driving at 80 mph or below, Abetterrouteplanner.com predicts that I can cover the entire the entire 1100 mile journey in three charging stops. I’m looking forward to proving this for myself. Particularly tantalising is the prospect of repeating what I’ve seen possible at my local EA chargers - 200 miles in 19 minutes! And that’s just using your lowly 150 kWH charger, without even bothering to precondition. I’ve attached pictures below.

It’ll be a treat to do a road trip in an EV, especially in one as long legged as our Air GTs!

Looking forward to hearing how that goes for you. I do San Diego to Vancouver frequently and can’t imagine doing that in an EV without the same charging capabilities and range of the AGT