7500 EV tax credit update with new bill

[n8236]

My guess is that the bill is attempting to transform dependence away from sourcing materials from China and other unfriendly countries . Who knows if it will work. I read somewhere that it could take up to 3 years before the bill will have a positive affect on EV sales.

I love all the climate provisions though.

I am pretty certain it rescinds , and after the effective date of the bill, that whole new set of rules takes over.

with how relations are with China and them holding all the battery mineral cards, I’m not one bit surprised by this and it is the correct long-term strategy. It’s too bad certain provisions are so specific.

 

[n8236]

I don’t know if Lucid would offer a solution considering they are having hard time deliverying cars.

It makes sense for Lucid to come up with something to minimize the potential 7.5k loss because if a significant # of Pure orders go away, it could drastically impact their potential earnings and the house of cards start to tumble real quick. I imagine the rebate won’t affect buyers of the higher end models bc they can afford it but their pool is also smaller, albeit the most profitable.

 

[Drendino]

It makes sense for Lucid to come up with something to minimize the potential 7.5k loss because if a significant # of Pure orders go away, it could drastically impact their potential earnings and the house of cards start to tumble real quick. I imagine the rebate won’t affect buyers of the higher end models bc they can afford it but their pool is also smaller, albeit the most profitable.

I’m not sure if Lucid is operating a house of cards or if this bill could put an end to the company. It will definitely hurt, but It’s a high end luxury brand and it gas a slightly different buyer base for the most part.

Rivian and Fisker are another story. I’m blown away that the very people who said they are the champions of EVs are the people threatening the very existence of the movement. There will come a time when EVs don’t need subsidies, but to do it in a recession and at a time when this many start-ups are ready to bring EVs to the middle class is a travesty. There is no greater good or long term play here. It’s a sh*t sandwich any way you stack it. I’m sure the IRS loving community is happy though.

 

[noobzilla]

I forwarded this to the VP of Sales.

I told him there's no guarantee it would work, but worst case would be non-action aka bill passing without us getting a chance to sign some kind of purchase contract. Also told him they can just word it properly and say there's no guarantee for the $7500 credit if theyre worried about customers suing them if they don't get it despite signing a contract.

P.S. I actually emailed the CEO today and he forwarded it to the VP of Sales. I'm honestly surprised to get a response. I'm taking the chance that maybe they haven't seen this and I can help convince them to take this route.

This is interesting. I’m sure lucid will figure something out as well.

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[Bunnylebowski]

I’m blown away that the very people who said they are the champions of EVs are the people threatening the very existence of the movement. There will come a time when EVs don’t need subsidies, but to do it in a recession and at a time when this many start-ups are ready to bring EVs to the middle class is a travesty. There is no greater good or long term play here. It’s a sh*t sandwich any way you stack it. I’m sure the IRS loving community is happy though.

Yeah, I’ll withhold my political leanings because I like this to be a car forum, but the EV portion of this bill is idiotic regardless of your political affiliations. There’s no way it will increase EV adoption, they should have just kept the blanket $7,500 credit and got rid of the 200k vehicle sales limit. It does make sense to encourage sourcing of battery/materials in the US, but there’s other ways to do that than a buyer rebate

 

[njg-agt]

... I imagine the rebate won’t affect buyers of the higher end models bc they can afford it ...

Wow... not really... the GT has more range, and for some of us that is worth its significantly larger price... but that does not mean that a net increase in effective price of $7500 wouldn't affect us and make us think twice about the buy (and seriously consider loss of $1000 in deposit as the buy may no longer by fiscally feasible).

 

[joec]

This is interesting. I’m sure lucid will figure something out as well.

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I mean, if this makes people feel better, I guess Lucid could do this. I read it as “We’re going to talk to tax experts and see if it’s possible to salvage this $7500 thing, but don’t get your hopes up. Also, follow your own accountant’s advice, as we’re not responsible.”

I’ve made my peace with losing the $7500. If somehow Lucid manages to make this work, all the better. But if I had to count on this to make it work financially, I’d move on to a less expensive car.

 

[digiboxer]

I think an argument can be made that tax credits are not necessary at all, given the long wait times due to high demand and continued supply chain issues. Obviously I don’t personally like that since I’m getting a Lucid and the Rivian, but I could understand it and in my case won’t change my plans.

Where I get irritated is that they are trying to tell us that this will put more EVs on the road, among other fantasies. The net effect of this bill will be less EVs on the road, which is bad for the environment. This seems like a betrayal from the people who claimed to be environmental friendly. Like it or not, Americans love SUVs and trucks and if you look at the Rivian boards, many people are cancelling orders and are keeping their ICE SUVs and trucks. Again, just be honest about what the bill does and I might be able to get on board. Please just don’t tell me that it will reduce carbon, because it won’t.

Democrat payback to unionized workforce at legacy automakers

 

[digiboxer]

Really? You’re going to pay for a car upfront with not ETA on delivery all just to secure a tax credit? Fisker is cash strapped and desperate for money hence them asking reservation holders for non refundable deposits. You want to take that risk for them to never make it to production then by all means go ahead and do it but you’ll lose a lot more than $7500 if they go under before actually delivering.

If they don’t provide a VIN at the time of order confirmation then good luck getting financing from a bank also. I would be very, very cautious giving a startup money when they’re yet to deliver anything.

Fisker is offering to enter into a "binding contract" with any interested buyer. The fine print says if the buyer fails to close the deal Fisker's remedy is forfeiting the $250 deposit....thats the extent of the buyer's exposure.

Whether that's enough to validly grandfather the tax credit per the transition rules isn the Bill----anyone's guess. And Fisker certain doesn't "promise" that it does work.

Looks like Rivian is pursing a similar arrangement---one would expect with advice from legal, accounting, and lobbying experts. Will Lucid follow suit?

 

[steveairgt]

How would this effect current AGT customers who already have an order in place? We didn't sign anything per se. They have our $1000 non-refundable deposit. I wonder if that counts as a "signed purchase contract"?

Thoughts?
Thanks.

 

[idiot900]

What happens if you sign a purchase agreement with a regular car dealership, then back out before paying or taking delivery of the car?

 

[digiboxer]

How would this effect current AGT customers who already have an order in place? We didn't sign anything per se. They have our $1000 non-refundable deposit. I wonder if that counts as a "signed purchase contract"?

Thoughts?
Thanks.

I haven't gotten to that stage, but I'm guessing you clicked a button accepting some Lucid terms and conditions, including what happens to your deposit. If so, the question is whether those terms and conditions constitute a "binding contract" as defined in the Bill.

 

[steveairgt]

I haven't gotten to that stage, but I'm guessing you clicked a button accepting some Lucid terms and conditions, including what happens to your deposit. If so, the question is whether those terms and conditions constitute a "binding contract" as defined in the Bill.

Exactly, that's what I am hoping to get clarification on. At the moment, my DA, says don't worry, "I expect that you will take delivery this year..." But what happens if that doesn't happen and it moves out to Jan 2023? I would hope Lucid will send a clarification email to us all soon because I expect hundreds of people are asking the same question.

 

[rbbarry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1557020149395251201

 

[steveairgt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1557020149395251201

They seem to be implying that a confirmed order means that you qualify for the current credit.

 

[digiboxer]

Exactly, that's what I am hoping to get clarification on. At the moment, my DA, says don't worry, "I expect that you will take delivery this year..." But what happens if that doesn't happen and it moves out to Jan 2023? I would hope Lucid will send a clarification email to us all soon because I expect hundreds of people are asking the same question.

Well it seems pretty clear you don't have to "close" in 2022 to get the credit, hence the "binding contract" allowance in the transition language.

But don't expect Lucid to to promise that you have a binding contract that qualifies. They don't have any better idea than anyone else how the IRS is going to look at these deals and interpret the language of the Act and the contracts

 

[DJL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1557020149395251201

Finally, but they have just until, I believe, Friday, when the bill is scheduled to be signed. Plus, their customers have to confirm before then.

 

[level]

They seem to be implying that a confirmed order means that you qualify for the current credit.

Then I want to confirm my order asap. I'll pay them full amount and take my delivery next year.

 

[Impatient7536]

another question would be, for those like me that put a deposit down for a pure ($300), but had the intention of upgrading to touring, would confirming my $300 deposit to lock in the purchase agreement/$7.5k credit carryover to my future upgrade, or will it only be for the original reservation (pure)?

 

[Yugi]

Finally, but they have just until, I believe, Friday, when the bill is scheduled to be signed. Plus, their customers have to confirm before then.

No, I think they have until end of the year. Bill is effective from Jan 1 2023.