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Test drives?

pyle112 said:
I assume if you back out of a DE you would be able to apply the deposit to another lucid vehicle
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No chance of backing out. My comments were about Lucid's sales organization, with which I've had widely varying experiences (some quite good) but too often find very poorly armed with reliable information that you might expect sales people to have.

But I'm a rock solid fan of the vehicles Lucid builds and the way they service them, with three and half years of ownership to back it up.
 
jered said:
That is no longer the case. An SA can convert a GT order to DE.
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That is dealing with a refundable deposit, though. I'm not sure a non-refundable deposit for a specific model could be applied to a different model.
 
hmp10 said:
That is dealing with a refundable deposit, though. I'm not sure a non-refundable deposit for a specific model could be applied to a different model.
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For reference, I was able to reduce my DE order back to a GT. I don't know if that made it now refundable, though. And it wasn't transferred to a different "model", but it was transferred to a different trim.
 
hmp10 said:
I doubt it. When the Gravity Dream orders opened, I tried to convert the order I had already placed for a Grand Touring. I had to cancel that order and place a new order, and the Grand Touring deposit could not be applied to the Dream. I had to pay a second deposit and request a refund of the first deposit (which I received a few days later).
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That isn’t the case anymore. It should be able to reapplied elsewhere, but it’s up to Lucid; the terms say it’s non-transferable, but exceptions can always be made. Lucid could even refund it if they wanted to, heh. They just don’t have to.
 
I have two orders, a GGT and a GDE. I entered my DE order separately because I did it myself online. I did that because I didn't really trust my SA to respond timely, or knowledgeably, based on previous interactions. I am maintaining two orders just in case I decide to bail on the GDE (though I think that's unlikely).

I do hold out some hope that if I were to opt out of the GDE that Lucid might be so kind as to apply my GDE deposit to my GGT.

FYI my emails were, I think, getting spaminated at server level (and not even getting to my junk mail folder). I can't totally confirm that but I do know that the confirmation email for my test drive (thanks for the info, @037 ) was spaminated. I was able to recover that one (24 hour quarantine rule).
 
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jered said:
Natick told me "first week of May". I told him that I wouldn't hold him to that date, but to let us know as soon as we could get in.
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Now I am being told "end of this month", but that DEs are still all scheduled to be delivered by end of June. *shrug*
 
WeighingGravity said:
It's not great that it appears the dates are slipping again. At the big launch event they said they were almost finished building the showroom models and that they’d be in experience centers in April. But even at the event, the SA I was talking to on-site was hedging and saying “early May.” Now it looks like some centers are floating end of May. Of course a lot of this is hearsay and should be taken with a grain of salt, but it definitely still feels like something is amiss.
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When they realized HUD supply chain issues, they decided to put them in the Dream editions and sell them instead of using them for Demos. Makes sense financially, but they should never have allowed themselves to be in this situation in the first place. History repeats itself as with the Air roll out. Supply chain should have been fixed and full ramp up should have started…. but here we are, struggling to get the vehicles out…..mind boggling they didn’t learn yet.
 
Batteryman said:
When they realized HUD supply chain issues, they decided to put them in the Dream editions and sell them instead of using them for Demos. Makes sense financially, but they should never have allowed themselves to be in this situation in the first place. History repeats itself as with the Air roll out. Supply chain should have been fixed and full ramp up should have started…. but here we are, struggling to get the vehicles out…..mind boggling they didn’t learn yet.
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Because the current administration is extremely predictable and there is no other business having any issues with sourcing materials or raising prices at all, right?

Right.

This isn’t meant to be political, just factual; Lucid are far from the only ones struggling with this in the current climate. Lomi, a company that manufactures a compost generator, just emailed me saying they can no longer ship to the US. At all. Period.

Lucid absolutely planned for a lot of things. The US starting a trade war with the entire rest of the world was, to be honest, not on my bingo card either, and whether you agree with it or not (which is not the point), it is impossible to deny it has affected manufacturing and supply chains around the world.

Please don’t make this political. It doesn’t need to be. But it is clearly not absurd for Lucid to not have predicted the current climate.

Even though I also wish they had.
 
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borski said:
Because the current administration is extremely predictable and there is no other business having any issues with sourcing materials or raising prices at all, right?

Right.

This isn’t meant to be political, just factual; Lucid are far from the only ones struggling with this in the current climate. Lomi, a company that manufactures a compost generator, just emailed me saying they can no longer ship to the US. At all. Period.

Lucid absolutely planned for a lot of things. The US starting a trade war with the entire rest of the world was, to be honest, not on my bingo card either, and whether you agree with it or not (which is not the point), it is impossible to deny it has affected manufacturing and supply chains around the world.

Please don’t make this political. It doesn’t need to be. But it is clearly not absurd for Lucid to not have predicted the current climate.

Even though I also wish they had.
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On the bright side, when DEs start getting delivered this week we will all see how amazing the HUD really is, even more amazing than the photo
 

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borski said:
Because the current administration is extremely predictable and there is no other business having any issues with sourcing materials or raising prices at all, right?

Right.

This isn’t meant to be political, just factual; Lucid are far from the only ones struggling with this in the current climate. Lomi, a company that manufactures a compost generator, just emailed me saying they can no longer ship to the US. At all. Period.

Lucid absolutely planned for a lot of things. The US starting a trade war with the entire rest of the world was, to be honest, not on my bingo card either, and whether you agree with it or not (which is not the point), it is impossible to deny it has affected manufacturing and supply chains around the world.

Please don’t make this political. It doesn’t need to be. But it is clearly not absurd for Lucid to not have predicted the current climate.

Even though I also wish they had.
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Having decided to install Uniden radar/laser detectors in our new Gravities, I went to the only authorized dealer in Naples today to check them out. (The outfit that installed the Radensos in our Air and Model S don't carry Uniden.) I asked if they had the new R9w in stock without telling them anything yet about my plans. They said they had five in stock, with three already allocated to customers. I asked if they had any idea whether their ability to get them would be affected by the tariff situation. They said Uniden had already notified them to expect a 20-30% price increase with the next shipment. The current price per unit is $4,000, so it's a hefty increase. I then asked if I could purchase the two unallocated units now and just have them held there until the cars come, both because I wanted to avoid the price increase and because I was worried the supply might tighten. They said they would only need a deposit to hold them for me, so I did that.

Uniden also told them that the next shipments might be delayed, as their inventory was depleted due to other installers having stocked up before the tariffs hit. The installer said he wished he had thought to do that because Uniden is the only detector brand they sell. But they have been distracted by being in the middle of a move to larger new quarters and weren't thinking about building inventory.

It was a cool little operation that definitely needs more space. The Ferrari and the fully-restored Chevelle SS396 they were working on pretty much filled the space. They can do pretty much anything in-house, though, from fabricating custom mounting components to installing radar displays behind the glass inside the casing of the factory rearview mirrors of most car brands. (They'll have to see the Gravity before they'll know if they can do it with that.) Until I came across a place in Texas on the internet yesterday to which you have to ship your mirror to get this done, I didn't even know such a thing might be possible.
 
hmp10 said:
Having decided to install Uniden radar/laser detectors in our new Gravities, I went to the only authorized dealer in Naples today to check them out. (The outfit that installed the Radensos in our Air and Model S don't carry Uniden.) I asked if they had the new R9w in stock without telling them anything yet about my plans. They said they had five in stock, with three already allocated to customers. I asked if they had any idea whether their ability to get them would be affected by the tariff situation. They said Uniden had already notified them to expect a 20-30% price increase with the next shipment. The current price per unit is $4,000, so it's a hefty increase. I then asked if I could purchase the two unallocated units now and just have them held there until the cars come, both because I wanted to avoid the price increase and because I was worried the supply might tighten. They said they would only need a deposit to hold them for me, so I did that.

Uniden also told them that the next shipments might be delayed, as their inventory was depleted due to other installers having stocked up before the tariffs hit. The installer said he wished he had thought to do that because Uniden is the only detector brand they sell. But they have been distracted by being in the middle of a move to larger new quarters and weren't thinking about building inventory.

It was a cool little operation that definitely needs more space. The Ferrari and the fully-restored Chevelle SS396 they were working on pretty much filled the space. They can do pretty much anything in-house, though, from fabricating custom mounting components to installing radar displays behind the glass and inside the casing of the factory rearview mirrors of most car brands. (They'll have to see the Gravity before they'll know if they can do it with that.)
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Looking forward to your setup details as chances are my installer will be much less qualified. Just need to know power points and gotta watch em so he doesn’t start drilling holes through the firewall…which he then forgot to cover up to prevent water intrusion…sigh
 
This is completely apolitical - I don’t believe the tariff/trade war environment explains the supply shortage.

Parts are not suddenly unavailable. They’re just more expensive. It strains credulity to think that a car company that really needs to show Wall Street and the world that they can sell this new model would risk the black eye of pulling back an option and delaying shipments/launch over more expensive HUD parts. The HUD is part of a $3200 technology package; I think it’s a stretch to think that this is even a $500 cost part or set of parts that would hold up shipments. Even if we assume the highest tariff rates, I can’t make it make sense for a company to not just eat $1000 of cost per vehicle for a while, at the cost of shifting millions in demand back to the fall (and some lost sales). And honestly I’d guess the added cost would be less than that.

All for a part that should have been in stock well before the highest tariffs went into effect (not even a month ago - remember Gravity’s were supposed to be in showrooms in April).

I think you have to be really, uhh, friendly to accept that as the explanation.

I’ve said this before but I think a much simpler explanation is that the design is/was delivered late. Maybe now it’s in the supplier’s hands so they can semi-credibly say that, well, we don’t have parts. But the fact that I don’t think anyone’s seen a full-version, head-placement-adapting augmented reality full functionality version of this thing actually working, even in a cobbled together pre-production unit with pre-production or prototype parts, is a telling sign.

I guess we’ll see when DE orders are delivered, but even if they work, I think late design delivery is a more credible explanation than tariffs.
 
037 said:
Looking forward to your setup details as chances are my installer will be much less qualified. Just need to know power points and gotta watch em so he doesn’t start drilling holes through the firewall…which he then forgot to cover up to prevent water intrusion…sigh
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Naples is a bit weird when it comes to certain things. If you want to get a scuffed car wheel refinished, it has to be sent over to Miami. If you want to have your tires road force balanced, the car has to go up to Ft. Myers.

But it you want to have an elaborate custom installation done on your Rolls, Bentley, Aston, Ferrari, or Lambo -- or want to spend half a mill on cabinetry for your home library -- there are folks lined up to give you an appointment, if you don't mind waiting a while.

There are parts of this town I just avoid as much as I can.
 
WeighingGravity said:
All for a part that should have been in stock well before the highest tariffs went into effect (not even a month ago - remember Gravity’s were supposed to be in showrooms in April).
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I don't think we know enough about Lucid manufacturing to say that. The just-in-time inventory management system pioneered by Japan in the 1980's has become canon for many manufacturers around the globe, including in the U.S. Whole supply chains from sourcing raw materials to delivery to end users are often built around this approach. For all its great advantages in terms of cost and space management and its natural alignment with the related discipline of lean manufacturing, it does have the downside of being more susceptible to sudden changes in conditions -- such as pandemics and tariff uncertainty, two things Lucid has had the misfortune to have thrown at it during both its critical product launches.
 
I’m well aware of Lean manufacturing and jit. I’d venture I’ve spent more time with Toyota Lean practitioners than most others on this site. But cars were supposed to be delivered in April. The major tariffs started in April. JIT isn’t just after time. It’s still got to be on time.

A ton of JIT is just big companies pushing inventory on to smaller suppliers, and a lot of it is also not batching but making just enough, while having raw materials in stock in the right quantities. We’re seeing with how a lot of these cars are being made (in batches) that Lucid isnt at single piece flow yet. Plus, the pandemic made a lot of people who had misinterpreted Lean to only mean razor-thin inventory levels rethink those philosophies.

And even if all that is conceded, tariffs haven’t stopped parts from being made. They’ve just made them more expensive. In fact, most Chinese suppliers are dying to be making things right now.
 
WeighingGravity said:
This is completely apolitical - I don’t believe the tariff/trade war environment explains the supply shortage.

Parts are not suddenly unavailable. They’re just more expensive. It strains credulity to think that a car company that really needs to show Wall Street and the world that they can sell this new model would risk the black eye of pulling back an option and delaying shipments/launch over more expensive HUD parts. The HUD is part of a $3200 technology package; I think it’s a stretch to think that this is even a $500 cost part or set of parts that would hold up shipments. Even if we assume the highest tariff rates, I can’t make it make sense for a company to not just eat $1000 of cost per vehicle for a while, at the cost of shifting millions in demand back to the fall (and some lost sales). And honestly I’d guess the added cost would be less than that.

All for a part that should have been in stock well before the highest tariffs went into effect (not even a month ago - remember Gravity’s were supposed to be in showrooms in April).

I think you have to be really, uhh, friendly to accept that as the explanation.

I’ve said this before but I think a much simpler explanation is that the design is/was delivered late. Maybe now it’s in the supplier’s hands so they can semi-credibly say that, well, we don’t have parts. But the fact that I don’t think anyone’s seen a full-version, head-placement-adapting augmented reality full functionality version of this thing actually working, even in a cobbled together pre-production unit with pre-production or prototype parts, is a telling sign.

I guess we’ll see when DE orders are delivered, but even if they work, I think late design delivery is a more credible explanation than tariffs.
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I am with you. I suspect that they haven't worked out the software yet. Otherwise, why would all the huds had been disabled in the demo cars that the YT reviewers had been provided? Why wouldn't they have wanted to showcase the amazing augmented reality to the YT reviewers and by extend, to the investors? If not even the demo cars had a working HUD, then that goes to show you it's not a hardware shortage issue, they simply have no clue how to do that fancy augmented reality because lucid is terrible at software. Not saying it is easy, but they simply bit off more than they can chew. I love lucid but I hate the bait and switch marketing. tactics.
 
WeighingGravity said:
I’m well aware of Lean manufacturing and jit. I’d venture I’ve spent more time with Toyota Lean practitioners than most others on this site. But cars were supposed to be delivered in April. The major tariffs started in April. JIT isn’t just after time. It’s still got to be on time.
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I understand that. But I was addressing the larger point you made about "a part that should have been in stock well before the highest tariffs went into effect". I worked for a major manufacturing company as it was going through the adoption of JIT production, and the point was to reduce the need to have parts on hand well before time. So I'm just not sure to what extent Lucid practices that.

There could still be a tariff-related problem upstream of Lucid with a supplier. With the prospect of tariffs raising its head -- even if not yet implemented -- vendors might curtail their own production to avoid the risk of building inventory or direct it to other customers, or customers with more buying clout might demand to have product directed their way to hedge their own operations against the possibility of future price hikes (as was happening in the Uniden situation I mentioned earlier.). I just don't think we know enough about how all these things interplay in the way Lucid has its supply chain set up.
 
I decided to delete the above post but missed the delete time-out. I'm still not so sure Lucid would have found it as easy to avoid the HUD supply issue as @WeighingGravity thinks, but then again, he does seem to have a better understanding of how just-in-time practices have evolved since I first encountered them. So I'm not really in a position to argue with confidence, as much as I may enjoy it. ;)
 
Had the pleasure of going on a test drive at the fashion island store. Was a ton of fun, and the staff were helpful and supportive throughout.

Definitely worth the trip, even for those who are driving a few hours. I had even driven the vehicle before but was excited to have the opportunity to drive it again.

The buzz in store was palpable for a Thursday weekday morning, I think this is going to get a lot more traction than the Air.

Happy for Lucid!

camphoto_341603450.webp

Also, got a cute speedform to celebrate the occasion! It can join my NY meatpacking one on the mantle place.
 
hmp10 said:
I decided to delete the above post but missed the delete time-out. I'm still not so sure Lucid would have found it as easy to avoid the HUD supply issue as @WeighingGravity thinks, but then again, he does seem to have a better understanding of how just-in-time practices have evolved since I first encountered them. So I'm not really in a position to argue with confidence, as much as I may enjoy it. ;)
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FWIW I am not offended and I am happy to converse and be challenged on things. That said, I do work in manufacturing and I have a global supply chain that includes China. And I have been a Lean practitioner for some time, and I am fortunate to have learned some of it from the very best. I do also do new product development. So I have some relevant experience in many of these things (granted, nothing as huge or complex as an automotive supply chain), but I am close enough to have some educated guesses, or in this case, a bit of a spidey sense about what I think is really going on here.
 
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