Comparable to Lucid Grand Touring?

[tomfence]

So, I’m almost at my breaking point with Lucid, and losing the tax credit that they have been marketing to me for the last year and a half (I submitted my deposit in April ‘20) might just push me over the edge. So, what are other, similar fun/nice cars that people are considering?

 

[borski]

Admittedly, the tax credit isn’t their fault; not sure anyone predicted Congress would change it so significantly.

That said, the typical other EVs that it is competing with right now are: Mercedes EQS, Porsche Taycan, Audi e-tron GT.

There is also of course the Tesla vehicles, and then the Rivians for an SUV/Truck.

Keep in mind that any of them, save the Rivian base models or cheaper Tesla models will also not be eligible for the tax credit.

 

[Lucken]

I’ve got the new BMW I4 on my radar too. Its range is just acceptable at 300 miles, certainly better than what I’ve got now. It looks very nice inside & out with high quality materials as well as excellent fit and finish from an established automaker.

There’s really nothing else out there that does it for me. I would definitely take the Taycan or e-Tron GT seriously if their range was better. My wife loves the looks of both and would actually have been happy if I went with either. But currently owning an e-Tron Sportback, with its mediocre range, makes another e-Tron a non-starter.

I still have aesthetic issues with many EVs out there. I ruled out another Tesla MS based on several factors, including the inane steering wheel. So at this point it’s either the Lucid or the I4.

 

[tomfence]

Admittedly, the tax credit isn’t their fault; not sure anyone predicted Congress would change it so significantly.

That said, the typical other EVs that it is competing with right now are: Mercedes EQS, Porsche Taycan, Audi e-tron GT.

There is also of course the Tesla vehicles, and then the Rivians for an SUV/Truck.

Keep in mind that any of them, save the Rivian base models or cheaper Tesla models will also not be eligible for the tax credit.

Understood, and what you said makes sense. I think, for me, is that they continue to market “luxury”, and part of luxury to me is the quality of the customer service. In the almost 2 years that I have been waiting, I have had 4 changes in my “customer service manager”, and am now back to the first guy. Having worked in high end software before, I know that the customers who pay the most (10s of millions per year) also expect, and receive comparable service. I just fear that my experiences to date don’t bode well for what the post delivery experience will be like. But, perhaps, they’re just banking on the fact that there is not a lot of comparable competition

 

[borski]

Understood, and what you said makes sense. I think, for me, is that they continue to market “luxury”, and part of luxury to me is the quality of the customer service. In the almost 2 years that I have been waiting, I have had 4 changes in my “customer service manager”, and am now back to the first guy. Having worked in high end software before, I know that the customers who pay the most (10s of millions per year) also expect, and receive comparable service. I just fear that my experiences to date don’t bode well for what the post delivery experience will be like. But, perhaps, they’re just banking on the fact that there is not a lot of comparable competition

Yeah, I hear you. I suspect it’s just because they’re in startup “deliver” mode. They have tons of positions open so I have to imagine it’s only going to get better from here.

 

[hydbob]

I had good customer service the whole time, seems to be even better now after delivery, but maybe it's because I'm posting here, hah!

 

[manitou202]

I think it's a combination of Lucid being a startup in the process of ramping production, and our current employment and supply chain environment.

Any of the worthy electric competitors to the Lucid Air (Taycan, E-tron GT, EQS, Tesla, BMW iX or i4 etc) or any of the gas powered equivalents are going to be difficult to find. Most have long waiting lists and you'll wait for months without hearing anything about your order. I've ordered 6 Porsche from my local dealership over the past 10 years, and when I went it to inquire about a Taycan Cross Turismo I was told 12 months minimum.

Then take a look at another similar startup Rivian. I've had a deposit on a Rivian R1S launch edition for several years. We were all told to expect delivery by the end of the year. They even made a big deal about starting their first deliveries in October. As it turns out their first deliveries went to employees only, and they still haven't delivered any vehicles to customers. We all just received a recent update from Rivian pushing deliveries to March-September of next year. Honestly I've been much happier with the communication and ramp up from Lucid compared to Rivian. At least Lucid is actually producing and delivering vehicles. It's a good sign they don't have major issues and know what they are doing. Rivian on the other hand might end up being a different story. Too early to tell.

Being one of the first to buy a new product from a startup is going to come with risks, delays, and early adopter issues. So if you aren't prepared to go through all of this to simply be one of the first, I would turn to a more established automaker.

 

[hmp10]

I can understand production start-up issues, delivery logistics issues (especially with widespread transport disruptions), and the need to sequence production based on manufacturing efficiencies. And I can roll with them.

What I have more trouble abiding is Lucid's failure to be upfront with customers and to disclose the impact that certain option choices will make on delivery time. And it becomes worse when a customer specifically asks about a choice and is specifically told it will have no effect -- only to find out it bumped him from near the front of the queue all the way to the back . . . with a $7,500 tax credit possibly hanging in the balance.

 

[JillyBean]

Aren’t the requirements different for SUV or truck regarding the $7500 tax credit. Where does this all start d currently?
Thx in advance

 

[manitou202]

Aren’t the requirements different for SUV or truck regarding the $7500 tax credit. Where does this all start d currently?
Thx in advance

Currently there is no MSRP limit. There is a cap of 200k vehicles total for each OEM. So Tesla and GM both have sold over 200k EVs in the US and no longer qualify.

The proposed law removes the 200k vehicle cap (which allows GM and Tesla to qualify again), but places a MSRP limit for sedans and Trucks/SUVs. Sedans are capped at $55k and Trucks/SUVs at $80k. So if the vehicle price is above those limits you completely lose the $7500 credit.

 

[SDHacker]

I don't find any current vehicles comparable. In price, the Taycan/Audi twins are but range and intent are not. EQS optioned out is price comparable and fulfills the luxury intent. Future models like the BMW i5/i7, Audi A6 e-tron, EQE, and Genesis G80. My problem with the BMW/Genesis offerings - they are essentially ICE models converted to EV powertrains. Lucid, Audi, and MB designed theirs as EVs.

If the Touring is delayed or Lucid removes ventilated front seats, I'll be switching to the Audi A6 (hopefully available in 2023). I don't care how technologically advanced the car is - I'm not buying a car that doesn't have ventilated seats with the weather we have in SoCal especially for $100k. As dactah is fond of pointing out, his wife's Sonata hybrid has ventilated seats and the base Dream Drive ADAS for $36k

 

[Lucken]

What’s often overlooked is that although there are minuses to using an ICE platform for an EV conversion, there are also pluses. You are taking a tried and proven platform, where issues have already been ironed out, and converted that to an electric power train.

My MS, a ground up designed EV, could not be described as problem free. My e-Tron has largely been without issues. Sure, Tesla’s notoriously sloppy manufacturing is part of the problem, but the fact is they are still learning to build cars. That’s also true of Lucid, who has supposedly learned from Tesla’s mistakes, but only time will tell.

There is also the servicing infrastructure that comes with legacy automakers that’s largely absent with nascent automakers. That’s one area of concern I have with Lucid, Rivian, Polestar or any of the new kids on the block. It’s not enough to dissuade me from purchasing as long as a service center is relatively close. Lucid will have one within 30 miles of my home. If they didn’t, there’s no way I’d even consider it, concierge service or not.

So a car like the new BMW i4, although an EV converted from an ICE model, carries some distinct advantages as well as disadvantages. Servicing is well established with a dealership quite close to me. Interior space, although not optimized like in a ground up EV, is still fine for me. Range, although decent, is not in Lucid’s class, at least on paper when looking at the Pure. However it has some options expected in luxury cars that may be missing in EV designed cars like the Lucid. Ventilated seats, HUD, greater interior & exterior color choices, laser headlights, drive recorder, etc. are all available. I’m still not sure what features differentiate the varying models in the Lucid lineup. Communication.

So at least in my case there are other viable options. Much of this is based on needs & expectations. As with most things in life, it’s rarely all black & white.

 

[hmp10]

Servicing is well established with a dealership quite close to me.

It might be a mistake to assume that your local ICE dealer who just started selling EVs (often grudgingly) is going to have a service team trained to handle EVs for a while.

When I bought my first Audi R8, Audi dealers had to spend almost $100,000 on specialized tooling and staff training to work on them. I lived in Chicago at the time and could not get the car serviced at the two closest Audi dealers but instead had to take it out to one of the suburbs where the dealership made the investment to service the car. Even that dealership for the first year or so only had one technician certified for R8 service, and if he was booked up, sick, or out on vacation the wait for a service appointment could be very long.

Oddly enough, the best service experiences I ever had with a car were in the first two years after I bought my Tesla. The mobile service teams came to my house, frequently-needed parts were kept in a local storage facility, and every technician knew everything he needed to know to fix the car. It was only after Tesla introduced the Model 3 that its service infrastructure became overwhelmed, and Tesla service took a nosedive from which it has not yet recovered.

 

[Paladin732]

It might be a mistake to assume that your local ICE dealer who just started selling EVs (often grudgingly) is going to have a service team trained to handle EVs for a while.

When I bought my first Audi R8, Audi dealers had to spend almost $100,000 on specialized tooling and staff training to work on them. I lived in Chicago at the time and could not get the car serviced at the two closest Audi dealers but instead had to take it out to one of the suburbs where the dealership made the investment to service the car. Even that dealership for the first year or so only had one technician certified for R8 service, and if he was booked up, sick, or out on vacation the wait for a service appointment could be very long.

Oddly enough, the best service experiences I ever had with a car were in the first two years after I bought my Tesla. The mobile service teams came to my house, frequently-needed parts were kept in a local storage facility, and every technician knew everything he needed to know to fix the car. It was only after Tesla introduced the Model 3 that its service infrastructure became overwhelmed, and Tesla service took a nosedive from which it has not yet recovered.

It’s unlikely they will recover. We experienced the same with our S and 3.

mar around the time the 3 started to overwhelm Tesla service, Elon fired the head of Customer Success and decided he didn’t need a VP and would just run it himself. We can see how well that has worked.

 

[Lucken]

I think at this point Audi has no issues servicing EVs. I brought mine in last week for a new charging software update (no OTA for the e-Tron) and all went well. BMW has had the i3 out for a while and they too seem to be ok with it…at least in the NY area. Interestingly my Audi dealer is across the street from the BMW dealer and both have sold a fair number of EVs. Of course that may or mat not be the case in other parts of the country.

 

[hydbob]

Ask the Mach-E people how they are liking the Ford servicing teams...

 

[Lucken]

I think it’s safe to say the jury is out on many EVs, including Lucid, in terms of servicing proficiency. In NY, I don’t believe Lucid even has a service center open yet.

Edit: I just checked the Lucid website and I was under the impression the soon to open Manhasset studio location, relatively close to me, would also handle service. However it is just showing a studio with nothing even proposed for service. So now I have no idea where servicing would take place as nothing is listed in the tri-state area. Dispatching service vans are fine, but if a major service is required, how will that be handled? Looks like I’m making another call tomorrow.

 

[WildRide47]

I think it’s safe to say the jury is out on many EVs, including Lucid, in terms of servicing proficiency. In NY, I don’t believe Lucid even has a service center open yet.

Edit: I just checked the Lucid website and I was under the impression the soon to open Manhasset studio location, relatively close to me, would also handle service. However it is just showing a studio with nothing even proposed for service. So now I have no idea where servicing would take place as nothing is listed in the tri-state area. Dispatching service vans are fine, but if a major service is required, how will that be handled? Looks like I’m making another call tomorrow.

I already asked that question and this is what I was told:

That service vans were the initial step and would take care of the majority of problems.

If that was not successful then my car would go to the nearest service center. Since I live in Portland, Oregon the nearest center is in Seattle(3+hours away). I asked if I would get a loaner car, the answer was yes. I also asked how is my car getting to Seattle, is someone driving it there. They told me no, it will be transported by truck.

I am originally from Westbury NY. I would have thought Long Island would be one of the main sites to have a Service Center. I'm surprised it is taking that long.

 

[hydbob]

My car is going in for service this week. They are going to pick it up and drop it back to me. Don't know specifics on logistics yet so I'll update that later. Nearest service center is 45 min away, Beverly Hills. I'm lucky though, there are 3 service centers within an hour of me. Torrance, Costa Mesa and Beverly Hills.

 

[borski]

I confirmed at the opening of the Newark service center that if the mobile teams / trucks can’t handle it they will truck it to the nearest service center and back (and provide a loaner if requested).