Will Lucid take Cosmos reservations?

[Ktw13]

Just remember Chinese company takes photo and scan any revealed vehicle. If Lucid reveals Cosmos too early it will be copied and sold before Cosmos reaches production.

An example is before Gravity final form was revealed, there was sketches published showing a more squirish SUV. Li Auto copied exactly that and came out with L7 and L9.

 

[socktucker]

The shortest version is “they’re getting their house in order first”

 

[RajD]

Just remember Chinese company takes photo and scan any revealed vehicle. If Lucid reveals Cosmos too early it will be copied and sold before Cosmos reaches production.

An example is before Gravity final form was revealed, there was sketches published showing a more squirish SUV. Li Auto copied exactly that and came out with L7 and L9.

I'm not suggesting that they reveal the Cosmos, I'm saying, market the specs (range, 0-60, charge speed, all the great things they will bring to market) and show a shrouded vehicle like they did on investor day. They can show the actual design closer to actual launch. But people looking for a mid-size SUV will notice the specs and hopefully be intrigued.

 

[Need4Sleep]

This. They’ve tried it twice, and both times they seem to have regretted it, for good reason that had nothing at all to do with the vehicles themselves.

I suspect they’ve decided not to go on a third round of playing that game.

Many of us thought they shouldn’t have done it a second time, and there was some discussion of that for Gravity, but those of us that have seen both launches likely agree that orders, and not reservations, are the way to go.

But people can vary in their opinions, of course!

Plus also from a marketing and publicity side, foregoing reservations and going straight into orders and configurations is a great way to make a splash. I can't imagine journalists and the press would pass up on adding "by the way, you can order one now" to their coverage

 

[RajD]

Plus also from a marketing and publicity side, foregoing reservations and going straight into orders and configurations is a great way to make a splash. I can't imagine journalists and the press would pass up on adding "by the way, you can order one now" to their coverage

That’s one way to look at it. But I don’t know many families who would actually order a new $50k+ car without seeing it in person first or test driving it. And we are talking about a mass market car, not the Air/Gravity enthusiasts.

Usually with an actual ‘order’ you’re dealing with a non-refundable deposit. Not many people will order Cosmos in the dark that way. Lucid has nearly zero brand equity. I think few people will take that bet until they can test drive the car.

This is another reason why reservations made sense to me. Allows mass market people to learn about the brand and express interest. But I can also see how misleading that number can be.

As much as service and software are things to iron out, Lucid needs brand identity. Some recent EV podcasts are now saying it’s the major reason why Rivian will succeed and Lucid may not - brand identity is polar opposites for the two companies. And it’s not that Rivian hasn’t had problems either. In fact they have the worst reliability by CR. But they’ve created a tremendous amount of brand desirability.

 

[eelpout]

For reasons your state yourself, reservations don’t mean much in conversion to sales. Also I’d say it’s a better look to under promise, overdeliver. The internet will cry if they open reservations with an anticipated date and not meet that date.

after 18 months Rivian finally had enough of me and my unused R1S reservation and gave me no choice but to have it refunded.

 

[Need4Sleep]

That’s one way to look at it. But I don’t know many families who would actually order a new $50k+ car without seeing it in person first or test driving it. And we are talking about a mass market car, not the Air/Gravity enthusiasts.

Usually with an actual ‘order’ you’re dealing with a non-refundable deposit. Not many people will order Cosmos in the dark that way. Lucid has nearly zero brand equity. I think few people will take that bet until they can test drive the car.

This is another reason why reservations made sense to me. Allows mass market people to learn about the brand and express interest. But I can also see how misleading that number can be.

As much as service and software are things to iron out, Lucid needs brand identity. Some recent EV podcasts are now saying it’s the major reason why Rivian will succeed and Lucid may not - brand identity is polar opposites for the two companies. And it’s not that Rivian hasn’t had problems either. In fact they have the worst reliability by CR. But they’ve created a tremendous amount of brand desirability.

Fair point.

I'm willing to offer an alternate perspective to brand identity. I've seen Cory Steuben talk about swing angles, vision cones, and other human factors with regards to the midsize program. And I think those ergonomic factors might be another trick Lucid would have up their sleeves, because the families owning them would gladly talk about it to those around them. And word of mouth can be rather powerful when people passionately talk about how much it's made their lives easier when comparing one vehicle to another.

I can imagine a parent walking in with a child seat or a stroller seat and talk about how easy it is on their backs when they're talking about ease of entry/exit/setup. If Lucid keeps the 90-degree rear hinge doors, that'd would be a big factor for families with babies and kids. Or, it would be much easier for those taking care of their elderly family members since it would be easier for them to get in and out instead of having to climb into a Rivian (at least relative to midsize).

If midsize has the same frunk opening in the Gravity, that's a lot better ergonomics to slide groceries and big objects in and out compared to having to lift over the front bumpers of Rivian R2 and the Tesla Model Y.

If I were planning the midsize reveal, I'd make sure to bring a childseat and a stroller to show off how easy it is to set up and remove. And I'd make an extra point on the ease of loading to the frunk and the rear hatch.

 

[L-Dude]

I'd like to point out a couple things to all of you who seem to imply Lucid doesn't know anything about how to launch a new car. First of all, Lucid has the experience of launching two cars--and learning from the many mistakes that were made along the way (my guess is this was behind most, if not all, of the personnel changes at the company). Second, they already know a TON about the market for this car. They will have already done all kinds of market research, including focus groups with people who are shown prototypes and features of the new car(s?). They undoubtedly have a plan for the launch, that depends heavily on their ability to produce solid hardware and software--and also their ability to produce the car in volume. The launch is moving forward along may fronts--we're just not privy to the details.

 

[Ktw13]

That’s one way to look at it. But I don’t know many families who would actually order a new $50k+ car without seeing it in person first or test driving it. And we are talking about a mass market car, not the Air/Gravity enthusiasts.

Usually with an actual ‘order’ you’re dealing with a non-refundable deposit. Not many people will order Cosmos in the dark that way. Lucid has nearly zero brand equity. I think few people will take that bet until they can test drive the car.

This is another reason why reservations made sense to me. Allows mass market people to learn about the brand and express interest. But I can also see how misleading that number can be.

As much as service and software are things to iron out, Lucid needs brand identity. Some recent EV podcasts are now saying it’s the major reason why Rivian will succeed and Lucid may not - brand identity is polar opposites for the two companies. And it’s not that Rivian hasn’t had problems either. In fact they have the worst reliability by CR. But they’ve created a tremendous amount of brand desirability.

Biggest auto market in Europe is Germany, Lucid took 2026 performance car of the year in Germany. I know US is the biggest EV market, but that particular podcast seems missing "rest of the world".

 

[Need4Sleep]

I'd like to point out a couple things to all of you who seem to imply Lucid doesn't know anything about how to launch a new car. First of all, Lucid has the experience of launching two cars--and learning from the many mistakes that were made along the way (my guess is this was behind most, if not all, of the personnel changes at the company). Second, they already know a TON about the market for this car. They will have already done all kinds of market research, including focus groups with people who are shown prototypes and features of the new car(s?). They undoubtedly have a plan for the launch, that depends heavily on their ability to produce solid hardware and software--and also their ability to produce the car in volume. The launch is moving forward along may fronts--we're just not privy to the details.

yeah, good point. If it sounded like that was what I as implying, I didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to show there are so many different ways to do a rollout

 

[TahoeMichael]

That’s one way to look at it. But I don’t know many families who would actually order a new $50k+ car without seeing it in person first or test driving it. And we are talking about a mass market car, not the Air/Gravity enthusiasts.

Usually with an actual ‘order’ you’re dealing with a non-refundable deposit. Not many people will order Cosmos in the dark that way. Lucid has nearly zero brand equity. I think few people will take that bet until they can test drive the car.

This is another reason why reservations made sense to me. Allows mass market people to learn about the brand and express interest. But I can also see how misleading that number can be.

As much as service and software are things to iron out, Lucid needs brand identity. Some recent EV podcasts are now saying it’s the major reason why Rivian will succeed and Lucid may not - brand identity is polar opposites for the two companies. And it’s not that Rivian hasn’t had problems either. In fact they have the worst reliability by CR. But they’ve created a tremendous amount of brand desirability.

I don't really understand the perspective that Lucid's marketing or brand identity is bad. Air sells very well for its type of vehicle. Gravity generated intense excitement, and I don't know that we'd be having this conversation if the launch wasn't marred by engineering problems. I really don't think marketing or brand is Gravity's problem, and I don't see any current reason to worry about lackluster marketing for Cosmos. I'd worry a lot more about engineering and production, and being able to launch before there's too much competition that matches or exceeds what Lucid engineering can deliver.

 

[Need4Sleep]

Biggest auto market in Europe is Germany, Lucid took 2026 performance car of the year in Germany. I know US is the biggest EV market, but that particular podcast seems missing "rest of the world".

I've noticed that with a lot of EV content creators as well. Since most of the ones I watch are based in the US, they take a very America-only approach.

For example, I've seen one content creator push back against the criticism that Rivian R2's architecture only carries 400V, citing that most of the US is on Tesla's supercharger network which generally does not offer more than 400V (250kW).

Meanwhile, Europe is pushing towards higher and higher voltages. Even Canada will be getting BYD's flash chargers, which goes to 1000 kW. And that will require a higher voltage battery pack to take advantage of it.

But anyways, I'm straying from the topic of the thread.

 

[L-Dude]

yeah, good point. If it sounded like that was what I as implying, I didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to show there are so many different ways to do a rollout

Oh I wasn't aiming my post at anyone in particular--just addressing some opinions that have been expressed about the Cosmos launch in the past few days. No offense intended to anyone.

 

[BS8899]

I've noticed that with a lot of EV content creators as well. Since most of the ones I watch are based in the US, they take a very America-only approach.

For example, I've seen one content creator push back against the criticism that Rivian R2's architecture only carries 400V, citing that most of the US is on Tesla's supercharger network which generally does not offer more than 400V (250kW).

Meanwhile, Europe is pushing towards higher and higher voltages. Even Canada will be getting BYD's flash chargers, which goes to 1000 kW. And that will require a higher voltage battery pack to take advantage of it.

But anyways, I'm straying from the topic of the thread.

while "800V Charging" invokes a visceral response that means fast charging. Realistically, whether it is 400V or 800V, isn't the flatness of the charging curve also the key factor? Didn't we already learn this lesson before (e.g., Taycan vs the AGT)?

One of the Air's initial claims is the high-power charging, in excess of 250kW, correct? But that sugar-high is only minutes long and drops off rapidly. Gravity is better.

This is not a leading question, I honestly don't know the number....what is the R2's 400V charging profile vis-a-vis, how flat is the charging curve?

 

[Need4Sleep]

while "800V Charging" invokes a visceral response that means fast charging. Realistically, whether it is 400V or 800V, isn't the flatness of the charging curve also the key factor? Didn't we already learn this lesson before (e.g., Taycan vs the AGT)?

One of the Air's initial claims is the high-power charging, in excess of 250kW, correct? But that sugar-high is only minutes long and drops off rapidly. Gravity is better.

This is not a leading question, I honestly don't know the number....what is the R2's 400V charging profile vis-a-vis, how flat is the charging curve?

And the Gravity's battery is also at that high voltage

 

[BS8899]

And the Gravity's battery is also at that high voltage

There is no debate that 800Vis the future. According to an AI search, only 1.5% of US commercial chargers are natively 800V.

It is a fair question to pose RE: why did the R2 stay with 400V. I suspect it is cost driven and R2's 400V architecture still has decent specs.

Rivian's R2 Charging Specifications & Metrics at a Glance (per AI search)

• Architecture: 400V system
• Battery Capacity: 87.4 kWh (Net) / 94 kWh (Gross)
• Peak Charging Power: 200 kW - 240 kW (depending on the specific charger/BMS refinement)
• 10% to 80% Charge Time: Under 30 minutes
• Range Added: Up to 150 miles of range in about 15 minutes

 

[DeaneG]

I honestly don't know the number....what is the R2's 400V charging profile vis-a-vis, how flat is the charging curve?

It's pretty typical, not bad, not outstanding, and very much off-topic:

 

[BS8899]

It's pretty typical, not bad, not outstanding, and very much off-topic:

View attachment 39351

Good data. Yes, it is off topic RE: Cosmo Reservation.

I suspect then 400V choice is a cost (vs. benefit) consideration. Sometime Cosmo has to face as well.

 

[Adnillien]

I don't really understand the perspective that Lucid's marketing or brand identity is bad. Air sells very well for its type of vehicle. Gravity generated intense excitement, and I don't know that we'd be having this conversation if the launch wasn't marred by engineering problems. I really don't think marketing or brand is Gravity's problem, and I don't see any current reason to worry about lackluster marketing for Cosmos. I'd worry a lot more about engineering and production, and being able to launch before there's too much competition that matches or exceeds what Lucid engineering can deliver.

I would argue that Lucid does not have a brand identity. Lucid has some brand awareness which is why sales are good but that is a lot different than a brand identity. What does Luicd stand for as a brand? While "compromise nothing" is a great tag line, it is not brand identity since all cars are a compromise between size, performance, range, price, etc. Timothy Chalamet is not brand identity ignoring whether his ads have improved brand awareness/sales or not. Some of Lucid's investor material speak of sustainable transportation for the future. I am not even sure what this means and it is even less likely to be something that a majority of customers value in a car purchase. What does the Lucid brand stand for? I have been closely following Lucid since 2019 and I don't know. New potential customers are even less likely to know.

As a comparison, the Rivian brand stands for outdoor adventure. Rivian has done a very good job in promoting both brand identity and brand awareness. Much better than Lucid in that respect.

 

[BS8899]

I would argue that Lucid does not have a brand identity. Lucid has some brand awareness which is why sales are good but that is a lot different than a brand identity. What does Luicd stand for as a brand? While "compromise nothing" is a great tag line, it is not brand identity since all cars are a compromise between size, performance, range, price, etc. Timothy Chalamet is not brand identity ignoring whether his ads have improved brand awareness/sales or not. Some of Lucid's investor material speak of sustainable transportation for the future. I am not even sure what this means and it is even less likely to be something that a majority of customers value in a car purchase. What does the Lucid brand stand for? I have been closely following Lucid since 2019 and I don't know. New potential customers are even less likely to know.

As a comparison, the Rivian brand stands for outdoor adventure. Rivian has done a very good job in promoting both brand identity and brand awareness. Much better than Lucid in that respect.

Well said!

I might add, almost every single day, a Rivian Amazon delivery van shows up (sometimes twice a day) on my short cul-de-sac. There is a lot of "in-your-face" advertising.